Speakers for a restaurant...

cokewithvanilla

I am thinking about setting up speakers in a restaurant... the idea is to make it be able to rock out one certain nights, but sound good at low volume levels normally. I would like BIG sound. It doesnt have to be audiophile quality, but it should sound pretty good.

I am trying to find four speakers, they have to be mounted to the walls or ceiling. I also need to power these speakers with clean, but relatively cheap power... nothing fancy, but pretty powerful. I would also need a cheap preamp, all this really has to do is 2 channel over four speakers, nothing fancy.

I would like to get this all for relatively cheap because it is not an essential piece of the design, just an idea we are throwing around. It would probably only be used at high volumes for a couple hours a week. I'm looking at a low budget, but I am realistic.... any ideas?

curved

That's realisitc....I would definetly shop used equipment. You should be able to find a good pre and amplifier.

brettw22

The first thing that comes to mind is if you're being realistic in expecting 'big' sound out of 4 speakers to cover a restaurant....(dead space swallows sound)....i guess it all depends on the size of the restaurant, but if you're wanting 'loud' you need to invest in some good quality speakers.......

I've heard the In-Wall/Ceiling speakers from Polk and they sound INCREDIBLE, but they're also some coin...........

How big is the restaurant? Open ceiling or closed? What's your budget?

It's easier to talk specifics.........

Eric W

You're probably best off with PA speakers instead of home audio speakers- high efficiency, reliability from abuse, controlled dispersion patterns designed to cover crowds. Look at brands like Electro-Voice, EAW, Peavey, Yorkville.

Erik Tracy

Eric Wong wrote: »

You're probably best off with PA speakers instead of home audio speakers- high efficiency, reliability from abuse, controlled dispersion patterns designed to cover crowds. Look at brands like Electro-Voice, EAW, Peavey, Yorkville.

I'd listen to this advice.

Trying use HT speakers in a "public" application doesn't sound like the right fit.

mmadden28

What I would likely do, and is likely similar to what I've seen in some restaurants, is to use outdoor speakers. There designed for outdoor and wider dispersion use and so would likely fit the bill. I use some of Polk's Atirums in my pool area and they cover a wide area and it sounds great. And they're MIL spec so they can handle the abuse, and they're flexible with mounting options so you can aim them appropriately.

Or maybe even som estrategically placed in-ceiling speakers???
Just a thought for ya.

cokewithvanilla

Well, the area its pretty big, but it is kind of sectioned off, and we would start with the main section to see how things work out. In ceiling speakers are definitely ruled out, as its an open ceiling. The speakers would have to be mounted at ceiling level and pointed down, but there would still be 20 feet above them.

PA speakers are an interesting thought, how do they stack up in sound quality? what do bars and clubs use? I went to a bar down the street and they had a B&K 200.7 powering some of their speakers, so I wondered if home audio would give you better sound... or if it was just more convenient.

Does big sound generally come with a big room? At the gym I go to they have a large room that they use as a theater for the cardio equipment and all they have are small JBL speakers on the wall, and it sounds pretty big.

As for budget, it is as small as possible as I am not fronting the bill. It would be wonderful if it could be kept under $1000, but this likely will not be the case. The closest I have come in trying to use home audio was going with all Emotiva stuff… and its still considerably more expensive. The idea is, if it doesn’t work, not much money is lost, and if it does, it can be expanded.

A while back i was looking at thE CA-800T from klipsch... but i dont know how they stack up, and I really dont know of many commercial speakers in its class

Eric W

Are you going to have mic's for making announcements (or doing games like bingo or trivia), doing karaoke or DJs or bands? If so, PA speakers all the way. Home speakers can't take the abuse of piping speech from a microphone while getting above crowd noise.

Regardless, my recommendation on PA speakers still stands. A restaurant occasionally playing loud music is a commercial application. Any time there's a crowd of people in a large area, there's crowd noise and home speakers aren't going to cut it. There's plenty of great sounding PA speakers made specifically for this application. Look at Electro-Voice's EVID or smaller ZX series.

Sure you can "get by" with home audio gear on a jukebox, but one instance of feedback or the volume control getting cranked too high by a bartender and they'll blow up. You'll be dealing with blown tweeters and drivers. We sure don't have a problem with buying our speakers but there's the right equipment for the application.

Erik Tracy

Eric Wong wrote: »

Are you going to have mic's for making announcements (or doing games like bingo or trivia), doing karaoke or DJs or bands? If so, PA speakers all the way. Home speakers can't take the abuse of piping speech from a microphone while getting above crowd noise.

Regardless, my recommendation on PA speakers still stands. A restaurant occasionally playing loud music is a commercial application. Any time there's a crowd of people in a large area, there's crowd noise and home speakers aren't going to cut it. There's plenty of great sounding PA speakers made specifically for this application. Look at Electro-Voice's EVID or smaller ZX series.

Sure you can "get by" with home audio gear on a jukebox, but one instance of feedback or the volume control getting cranked too high by a bartender and they'll blow up. You'll be dealing with blown tweeters and drivers. We sure don't have a problem with buying our speakers but there's the right equipment for the application.

Not to mention that lots of PA speakers have protective/ruggedized enclosures.

Imagine the cringing you'd do when by some freak accident, the driver cones get mashed in on a nice set of Polk HT speakers.

You want highly efficient and rugged speakers (drivers and enclosures) for your setup.

cokewithvanilla

oh, its not for announcements or anything, only music will be played on them. And only two people will have the ability to change the volume, one of them would be me. They would be high enough off the ground that no one could reach them

ok, so it looks like its PA speakers all the way. Any list of good companies I can choose from that offer a low priced pa speaker that sounds good? Are PA speakers self powered? if not, what do I power them with?

Eric W

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

oh, its not for announcements or anything, only music will be played on them. And only two people will have the ability to change the volume, one of them would be me. They would be high enough off the ground that no one could reach them

ok, so it looks like its PA speakers all the way. Any list of good companies I can choose from that offer a low priced pa speaker that sounds good? Are PA speakers self powered? if not, what do I power them with?

Some PA speakers are powered, some are not. Powered speakers do cost more but then you don't have to buy an amp. A PA amp is what you'd use to power them with. A home receiver is also not appropriate, as it will likely overheat and shut down with such prolonged use.

Here's some decent-good quality PA speaker manufacturers:
www.peavey.com
www.mackie.com
www.electrovoice.com
www.yorkville.com
www.qscaudio.com
www.eaw.com
www.meyersound.com

cokewithvanilla

Thanks, that helps a lot!

It seems like the cheapest way to go is self powered. Although that limits me on the placement of the speakers. I still have a lot of reading to do before I find out which would be best. I am wondering how small of a speaker I can go and still attain the level of sound that I want. I would probably have to do a 3-way speaker.

mmadden28

I don't suppose you know any DJs? They would likely be more familiar with good PA type setups and the detailed specifics.

nadams

My local Pizza Hut has Polk Atriums in their dining area. I've always thought they sounded quite good...

Dennis Gardner

I would use 12 inch PA speakers run full range for low level times, with a couple subs to run a biamped rig for your louder times. For real bottom end coverage, check out Peavey's Kosmos bass processor for the crossover duties. At the flip of a switch, you can go from mild to wild. I have installed tons of these in clubs with great results. It processes bass response a full octave under what is in the program material when kicked in or lets you run your mains full range at the push of a single button.

http://peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/116507/Kosmos(R)%20V2%20Generator-Processor.cfm

Monster Jam

Excellent thread. Thanks Eric for the honest and informative feedback.

Eric W

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Thanks, that helps a lot!

It seems like the cheapest way to go is self powered. Although that limits me on the placement of the speakers. I still have a lot of reading to do before I find out which would be best. I am wondering how small of a speaker I can go and still attain the level of sound that I want. I would probably have to do a 3-way speaker.

Don't discount 2 way speakers, particularly if they're smaller. There's low quality DJ/PA type speakers out there that are 5 way and they sound horrible. If you run subwoofers you can get by with smaller speakers as well (just like in the home or car).

mmadden28 wrote: »

I don't suppose you know any DJs? They would likely be more familiar with good PA type setups and the detailed specifics.

Possibly but many of the DJ's I've encountered are as clueless on the technicals of their sound systems as many consumers. I'd ideally recommend going to a company specializing in commercial/distributed audio. These are the same people who will wire up conference rooms, theaters etc. But, it may break the budget.

nadams wrote: »

My local Pizza Hut has Polk Atriums in their dining area. I've always thought they sounded quite good...

The Atrium series would work fine if it's always playing low volume music. However the keyword here is the OP wanted to crank the system.

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I would use 12 inch PA speakers run full range for low level times, with a couple subs to run a biamped rig for your louder times. For real bottom end coverage, check out Peavey's Kosmos bass processor for the crossover duties. At the flip of a switch, you can go from mild to wild. I have installed tons of these in clubs with great results. It processes bass response a full octave under what is in the program material when kicked in or lets you run your mains full range at the push of a single button.

http://peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/116507/Kosmos(R)%20V2%20Generator-Processor.cfm

Good recommendation.

Monster Jam wrote: »

Excellent thread. Thanks Eric for the honest and informative feedback.

No wonder I'm not a salesman! But seriously all too often we find our speakers being used in churches, gyms and even theaters where it's really not the right tool.

Joe08867

As the former meber of a band that did everything from Weddings to Rock shows I would say that PA soeakers would be your best bet.

Self powered are nice bu then you run into the trouble of having to have and outlet near them. I believe it is a fire code that you not hava an extension cord attached to the speaker. It would have to be within 20ft of an outlet. That seems like alot until you try to snake it around a corner or down a wall.

For the money, JBL, Yamaha (Personal Favorite for all around use), Mackie, Peavey, and Behringer(Cheapest and pretty darn good sound) make nice small PA speakers. And you can find a decent PA amplifier that can handle the load alot better than any home equipment.

The nice thing about PA amps is they can usually be chained together with greater ease than home equipment.

And most importantly, PA equipment is more forgiving of the space they are being used in. Especially of areas where they have no walls or ceilings to bounce the sound off of such as you have talked about in this thread.

JohnMade

Hello Eric,

I am considering to purchase the lsi25 for music, HT and karaoke in my living room. Do you also suggest not to use lsi25 for home karaoke? I do not want to purchase two separate systems. It's crowding the space.

Is there a way to have a one setup in one rig so I can have 2 channel (for music enjoyment) and HT setup. I like the sound of lsi25 on music so much.

Thanks in advance.

mmadden28

JohnMade wrote: »

Hello Eric,

I am considering to purchase the lsi25 for music, HT and karaoke in my living room. Do you also suggest not to use lsi25 for home karaoke? I do not want to purchase two separate systems. It's crowding the space.

Is there a way to have a one setup in one rig so I can have 2 channel (for music enjoyment) and HT setup. I like the sound of lsi25 on music so much.

Thanks in advance.

I don't see any reason why you can't use the LSi25 for all your applications (in your home).

The suggestions made throughout this thread topic were specific to outside or commercial applications (mainly because of the volume level likely required to be effective).

rcrook317

could be wrong here but check out CROWN amps......lots of power,for way cheap....made for concert/large crowd setup

Tony M

Polk audio Atriums also get my vote.

I noticed about 4 Polk audio's M3'II in a local restaurant here but for more capabilities you could use the BIGGER M5's. Now that's a great sounding easily mountable excellent speaker!

Tony M

10/4...Something like a cerwin vega and others I saw listed. I didn't know he wanted to get that loud..sorry.

JohnMade

mmadden28 wrote: »

I don't see any reason why you can't use the LSi25 for all your applications (in your home).

The suggestions made throughout this thread topic were specific to outside or commercial applications (mainly because of the volume level likely required to be effective).

Thank you. I am glad to hear that. Just wondering what is the volume limit to be considered dangerous to the LSI25. Hopefully way beyond the ears can withstand

You guys so helpfull.