$300 to $400 price range

conqur

what's the best sub in the 300 to 400 dollare price range? is the bic h100 still running things?

bms

If you can swing $429.00 + shipping, the SVS PB10-NSD is a great performer, depending on your room size.
Mine is in a 20 x 13 x 8 room, with 2 openings to other rooms, and it still kicks.

RuSsMaN

The used market is full of great deals at that pricepoint.

conqur

would ebay be a goodplace to look for used. i've never used ebay before. i shop online quiet a bit just never used ebay.

Ricardo

audiogon.com is the preferred place to buy used audio gear.

Good luck.

Face

http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?homesubw&1&ctg&st1

Ron Temple

ED A2-300
Cadence CSX 12
Bic H100

In that order...if you save your pennies then the PB10 would get you a bit more articulation than the ED sub. If you want to wait for the Scamp 10, a Seaton sub that I'm told will score as high or higher than the SVS or ED (by Craig Chase, who owns the company ), it will be out sometime this winter for $250 shipped.

apphd

Parts Express has been advertising 3 new Dayton/HSU collaborations in: 8", 10", and 12" models that sound impressive -on paper- anyway. They have been delayed a few times until the good Dr. thinks they are as good as they can be. The 12" is listed @ $390 looks similar to a VTF2. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-394
I actually thought these had started shipping but I see they show "no stock due 11/6". Not sure if they sold out or another delay. I have been watching/waiting for some reviews of these, but so far have not been able to find any.

conqur

ron do u have a link to the scamp 10 seaton sub?

Ron Temple

conqur wrote: »

ron do u have a link to the scamp 10 seaton sub?

Here' the thread...

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12

There are other related topics on the forum. Don't pay attention to the early quoted pricing. It's going for a minimum $250 shipped...and it will be worth it.

-Axle-

Ron Temple wrote: »

Here' the thread...

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12

There are other related topics on the forum. Don't pay attention to the early quoted pricing. It's going for a minimum $250 shipped...and it will be worth it.

Hey Ron, not doubting your knowledge/recommendation, but I'm curious how solid the expectation for the Scamp is. I'm no sub expert and I don't claim to be but I'm sure we can all relate to overly hyped movies/games that have fallen short of their expectations. Can/has the same happened for subs in the past? I'm wanting to get one (a sub) lately and I keep hearing that the wait will be worth it for the Scamp but I'm not sure where all the confidence comes from for its performance. Again, my knowledge in the sub industry is very limited. What caught my eye the most was your comment on the Scamp surpassing the eD A2-300 and SVS PB10, since those were the two I was looking at and the Scamp would be a cheaper solution (I'm all HT use).

Ron Temple

-Axle- wrote: »

Hey Ron, not doubting your knowledge/recommendation, but I'm curious how solid the expectation for the Scamp is. I'm no sub expert and I don't claim to be but I'm sure we can all relate to overly hyped movies/games that have fallen short of their expectations. Can/has the same happened for subs in the past? I'm wanting to get one (a sub) lately and I keep hearing that the wait will be worth it for the Scamp but I'm not sure where all the confidence comes from for its performance. Again, my knowledge in the sub industry is very limited. What caught my eye the most was your comment on the Scamp surpassing the eD A2-300 and SVS PB10, since those were the two I was looking at and the Scamp would be a cheaper solution (I'm all HT use).

Hi Axle,

The prototype has been to a couple of GTGs. It was 3dbs down at 23hz and IIRC, was ~ 95dbs at 20hz max output. Everyone that heard it was very stoked. Mark Seaton started playing with it requested a more powerful optimized amp and some driver tweaks. So Rev 2 will be the first release. I'm told it will do close to 100dbs at 20hz., which is greater output than either the PB10 or ED product. I've spoken to Craig many times about various subs and respect how he rates them, though I don't always agree. SQ was never going to be an issue with this sub, but with the tweaks it's going to be a powerhouse at that price point. You're right, it's vaporware. TCA was hoping to have the product to market this month and like nearly everything else in the ID world, the time frame is stretched. I'm guilty of hyping I guess :eek: Bottomline, I think it's going to be a big winner...sort of an MFW 10 on steriods.

-Axle-

Ron Temple wrote: »

Hi Axle,

The prototype has been to a couple of GTGs. It was 3dbs down at 23hz and IIRC, was ~ 95dbs at 20hz max output. Everyone that heard it was very stoked. Mark Seaton started playing with it requested a more powerful optimized amp and some driver tweaks. So Rev 2 will be the first release. I'm told it will do close to 100dbs at 20hz., which is greater output than either the PB10 or ED product. I've spoken to Craig many times about various subs and respect how he rates them, though I don't always agree. SQ was never going to be an issue with this sub, but with the tweaks it's going to be a powerhouse at that price point. You're right, it's vaporware. TCA was hoping to have the product to market this month and like nearly everything else in the ID world, the time frame is stretched. I'm guilty of hyping I guess :eek: Bottomline, I think it's going to be a big winner...sort of an MFW 10 on steriods.

Ah, I wasn't aware that there were some prototypes out there for testing. That makes a lot of sense now. I just wasn't sure if people were just looking at the unit on paper and making the judgement.

Well, that's great to know. I'm not sure what the weighing will be but since Craig's ranking are for HT and Music, do you know which direction this sub will lean to? (ie. perform better for)

Ron Temple

-Axle- wrote: »

Ah, I wasn't aware that there were some prototypes out there for testing. That makes a lot of sense now. I just wasn't sure if people were just looking at the unit on paper and making the judgement.

Well, that's great to know. I'm not sure what the weighing will be but since Craig's ranking are for HT and Music, do you know which direction this sub will lean to? (ie. perform better for)

I kind of doubt he'll rank this one. Someone else will have to do a review to establish non-bias. Seaton doesn't make a non-musical product. It's going to be good for both, I'd think.

-Axle-

Ron Temple wrote: »

I kind of doubt he'll rank this one. Someone else will have to do a review to establish non-bias. Seaton doesn't make a non-musical product. It's going to be good for both, I'd think.

Would it be unreasonable to expect it to perform at least at the same level as the A2-300 (44/39) or PB10 (43/40) for both HT & Music?

I know Craig stopped ranking the subs so its not like I'll be able to get numbers attached (ie 44/40), but just want to make sure I'm not waiting for something that will only improve on the musical side.

P.S. I know these are all unfair questions Ron, I just value your opinion

Ron Temple

Based on how he scored the MFW 15, it might have good HT numbers for it's class and a slightly better music score (40/44, 41/43 just guessing). The box is a similar design, slot ported and unbraced (the slot port supplies the bracing). This give the MFW a non resonant cabinet and should do the same for the Scamp. So it's going to be very articulate through the midbass which is where the music lives...again for it's class.

Both PB 10 and A2-300 are excellent subs for the money. I've not heard the ED, but have heard the SVS several times. If the Scamp 10 is as good or even close, it will be an outstanding achievement at < $300. A point or 2 either way in his rankings might not even be noticeable to you. However, if you're itching to buy a sub, then I wouldn't wait.

-Axle-

Ron Temple wrote: »

Based on how he scored the MFW 15, it might have good HT numbers for it's class and a slightly better music score (40/44, 41/43 just guessing). The box is a similar design, slot ported and unbraced (the slot port supplies the bracing). This give the MFW a non resonant cabinet and should do the same for the Scamp. So it's going to be very articulate through the midbass which is where the music lives...again for it's class.

Both PB 10 and A2-300 are excellent subs for the money. I've not heard the ED, but have heard the SVS several times. If the Scamp 10 is as good or even close, it will be an outstanding achievement at < $300. A point or 2 either way in his rankings might not even be noticeable to you. However, if you're itching to buy a sub, then I wouldn't wait.

And that's another good point, I know Craig's point equate to a 5% increase in performance (ie 3pts = 15% perfomance increase), which also makes me wonder if I'm being too critical when its all within a few points. My understanding is that the top 20 subs in that list are all excellent performers but since I only plan to purchase one, I want to make sure its the one I'll want for good.... but we all know that'll never happen with the inevitable case of Upgraditis bound to hit at some point or another.

Ron Temple

Use it as a guide, not a bible . I think his analysis of the top 10 subs are outstanding and for most of us spot on. There's a few guys with Velos and Fathoms that disagree completely, but that's fine. I personally think the subs in the middle of the pack are fairly close to each other with a couple that should score much higher, some not so high. So for those subs, I might prefer a sub that's 5 points down from another on the list. For most of us a few points here or there maybe meaningless.

I consider the entry point to very capable subs starts with the PB10, Hsu and ED. So my excitement about an equally capable sub at a ridiculous price gets me spouting off.

mhartman29

Ron, just curious. What would your ratings be? I'm asking because I respect your opinion; not trying to be a smart ****.

Have you had a chance to hear the mfw-15, yet? I got the chance to listen to two here in Austin. Impressive. I can't wait until I get my duals delivered.

Ron Temple

mhartman29 wrote: »

Ron, just curious. What would your ratings be? I'm asking because I respect your opinion; not trying to be a smart ****.

Have you had a chance to hear the mfw-15, yet? I got the chance to listen to two here in Austin. Impressive. I can't wait until I get my duals delivered.

He put in the work and his results are valid in his setup. Some of the scoring he himself didn't agree with, but it was a consensus. I'm not going to poke holes in a few of his choices that I don't agree with.

No I haven't heard the MFW 15, but if it's any interest, both Craig and Mark Schifter told me that he was harder on his scoring because of the relationship they have. It might have scored a point or 2 higher if it was somone else's sub . I'm sure you're going to be floored by duals.

mhartman29

I hope so! It's been a long wait. I'm sure you are aware of the delivery problems they had with the mfw. By the time mine we're finally slated to arrive, I had to move out of my house and into an apartment (living there temporarily while a new house is built). So, I've had to wait another 6 months for that to happen. Should be done in October and then my neighbors are going to hate me because I'm going to crank those puppies!