The main components in a 2 channel rig?

dbaldus

Background story
I know that this is a really loaded question, but I really want to move into 2 channel audio and have had some frustrating results. I've purchased multiple amps (first an Emotiva LPA-1 and now a Rotel RB-1080 - returned the former and currently have the latter) and an SACD player (Denon 2200) and just haven't been happy with the results. I think that the main problem is that I have been using my receiver's pre-outs to the amps both times (tried both a H/K 247 and a Denon 3803 receiver for this purpose), which leads me to wondering whether or not I should get a separate pre-amp or a DAC.

Problem
Herein lies the problem. I have always been under the impression that a pre-amp just does the processing and then uses the pre-outs on it to go to the amplifier. So, in essence, it is a receiver without a built-in amplifier. But then I hear the terms "pre-processor" and things like "you should get an external DAC" so I'm confused what the hell I would actually need (besides an amplifier) to have a decent 2 channel rig. Searching for answers to questions such as "what components are essential for a 2 channel rig" or "should I get a DAC or a pre-amp" aren't very fruitful, so hopefully this thread can answer two main questions:

Main Question 1: What are the main components in a 2 channel rig and what do they do?

Components to define:
Pre-amplifier
Pre-processor
DAC
Any others that may be necessary

Main Question 2: What would a system look like, meaning how would it be connected?

For example, would I go from source to pre-amp to DAC to amp or source to pre-amp to amp or what? Again, I'm just trying to "see the big picture", if that makes sense?

I think that having all of this information in one thread that could be used as some sort of a "guide" to getting started on 2 channel would be a great start. We'll just go from there, as I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future.

Thanks in advance...
Derek

Early B.

A basic 2-channel system would consist of a source (usually a CD player), preamp, amp, and speakers. That's it. You can make it even simpler by going with an integrated amplifier which is a combo of a preamp and amp. That's a good option, especially if it's a tube integrated amp. For now, forget about a DAC.

If you're gonna do 2-channel, do it right. Start from the beginning and build your 2-channel rig separate from your HT system. Those Rti70's are fine for HT, but for 2-channel, you gotta look elsewhere.

What's your budget? With cables, stands, and other accessories, you should look at somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500 - $5,000.

MillerLiteScott

A pre-amp usually refers to a 2 channel pre-amp that handles source selection and volume amoung other functions depending on the particular unit.

A Pre-Processor refers to a Multi-channel preamplifier usually for HT and usually does not contain any internal amplification.

An AVR does the same as above but has internal amplification.

A DAC converts the digital source info to an analogue signal carried over RCA or Balanced inputs. A stand alone DAC usually has better compnents for the conversion of the digital info to analogue. If a cd player is using RCA's, the cd player is doing the conversion. If you use the optical out to a AVR/Pre Processor/DAC the latter is doing the conversion.

An integrated Amplifier contains both the pre-amplifier and amplifier in one unit and is generally a 2 channel component.

Hope that helps.

Others may have better description but that was my quick answer.

Scott

treitz3

Synergy. That's the main component to truly achieve what it is you are looking for. Good luck and have fun along the way, for that is one of the hardest things to achieve in one's system. IMO, of course.

dbaldus

MillerLiteScott wrote: »

A pre-amp usually refers to a 2 channel pre-amp that handles source selection and volume amoung other functions depending on the particular unit.

So the pre-amp just passes the signal along from the source to the amp? Is the only basic function of a pre-amp (assuming you only have one true "source" and therefore don't need any source selection features) to allow you to change the volume?

MillerLiteScott wrote: »

A Pre-Processor refers to a Multi-channel preamplifier usually for HT and usually does not contain any internal amplification.

So would a pre-processor feature better processing capabilities than an AVR in the same price range, in general?

Is there a difference in how certain sources do Dolby Digital/DTS decoding or is DD/DTS decoding standard across all components? Just wondering if there would be a difference in letting a low-end versus a high-end receiver do the decoding of those signals...

MillerLiteScott wrote: »

A DAC converts the digital source info to an analogue signal carried over RCA or Balanced inputs. A stand alone DAC usually has better compnents for the conversion of the digital info to analogue. If a cd player is using RCA's, the cd player is doing the conversion. If you use the optical out to a AVR/Pre Processor/DAC the latter is doing the conversion.

Would a DAC ever do multichannel decoding and output the resulting signal over multichannel analog outputs? Again, this kind of comes back to whether or not there would be a difference in DD/DTS decoders on sources.

The reason I am interested in purchasing a DAC is because getting my Denon 2200 is the biggest upgrade I have ever had (in terms of sound quality) due to its DACs being much better than my receiver's. I feel like my money would be well-spent if I could purchase an even BETTER DAC than my 2200's and let that do the conversion instead just based on my own experience with upgrades at this point in time. What do you guys feel about that?

dbaldus

Early B. wrote: »

A basic 2-channel system would consist of a source (usually a CD player), preamp, amp, and speakers. That's it. You can make it even simpler by going with an integrated amplifier which is a combo of a preamp and amp. That's a good option, especially if it's a tube integrated amp. For now, forget about a DAC.

If you're gonna do 2-channel, do it right. Start from the beginning and build your 2-channel rig separate from your HT system. Those Rti70's are fine for HT, but for 2-channel, you gotta look elsewhere.

What's your budget? With cables, stands, and other accessories, you should look at somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500 - $5,000.

Why do you recommend forgetting about a DAC at this point, out of curiosity? Check out my comments on my experience with DACs on the post above (in reply to Scott's suggestions).

Which speakers do you think I should look into? The LSi line?

At this point, I just want to make the best possible upgrade for the speakers that I currently have. I thought that a great amp (the Rotel) would be the best, but I think I was wrong in that regard.

fbm211

Maybe he meant forget about the DAC (for now) till you get your system sounding closer to what you want it to sound like.Then get a good DAC and it will improve it more.Interconnects and speaker cables can have a pretty big impact on SQ too.What speakers do you have??

mmadden28

Caveat--Everything I say is my understanding thus far-I am still getting up to speed myself...

dbaldus wrote: »

So the pre-amp just passes the signal along from the source to the amp? Is the only basic function of a pre-amp (assuming you only have one true "source" and therefore don't need any source selection features) to allow you to change the volume?

As far as simple goes-I've directly connected my iPod to the amp-no pre/no pro/no avr, etc. I've seen some preamps also have balance and tone controls as well. Some are Solid State (SS) and some are tube based, and from what I've read, they can impact the SQ. The Preamp I have also has some gain to it, so overall when I added the preamp to the above mentioned direct connected iPod, the max volume increase dramatically.

dbaldus wrote: »

So would a pre-processor feature better processing capabilities than an AVR in the same price range, in general?

Is there a difference in how certain sources do Dolby Digital/DTS decoding or is DD/DTS decoding standard across all components? Just wondering if there would be a difference in letting a low-end versus a high-end receiver do the decoding of those signals...

If you are only concerned about setting up a 2 channel system-why would you be concerned about the surround formats?
To me, dedicated processors are likely to have higher quality components that can better process the surround or other advanced formats. Think if it like a computer-lots of parts, some of them likely sub standard in order to save the manufacturer money, yet all capable for the average consumer but you can always buy a better Hard Drive, or faster memory, or a better sound card, or a sharper monitor, etc. to increase the overall 'power' of the system. At least that's my take on it.

From what I understand, a stand-alone DAC simply provides a dedicated and much higher quality DAC than whats typically in the CD Player or AVR, etc. That doesn't mean that a high end CD Player, etc doesn't already have a high quality DAC.

I think Early said to forget about a DAC for now, because its not required in a BASIC 2 channel setup and can usually be pricey. There are lots of things you can add to a setup to enhance it later (Think Magic Pebbles )

The way I understand connection order:
Sources (CD/Turntable/SACD/DVD,iPod, etc)
DAC (if the source is digital)
Preamp
Amp
Speakers

I'm sure somebody else here can clarify, confirm, or correct anything I have said.

Early B.

fbm211 wrote: »

Maybe he meant forget about the DAC (for now) till you get your system sounding closer to what you want it to sound like.

That's correct. Don't complicate the issue by dealing with DACS right now. Get a nice CD player. Maybe later once your system is built you can experiment with the next level of separates -- DACs, transports, monoblocks, preamps with external power supplies, external passive crossovers, active crossovers, etc.