The $50 speaker wire question

EFanning
EFanning Posts: 60
edited September 2008 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I could buy 125 feet of 14-gauge Belden in-wall wire for $50 to connect a pair of Monitor 30s to a mid-range late 1990s Yamaha receiver throwing off 80 watts per channel. Or I could buy 250 feet of generic 16-gauge in-wall wire for $50 and bi-wire the M30s. The wire run from speaker to receiver is 60 feet. Also, I may move up to a NAD or Marantz integrated amp in the next two years. The M30s are a two-channel set up in a mid-size kitchen.

So, which route should I take: 14-gauge Belden or bi-wire 16-gauge?

Thanks.
Marantz DV4001 CD and DVD
WD TV Live Hub with 1 TB (Need DacMagic)
Marantz PM7001 Integrated amplifier
Philips GA 312 Turntable
Polk Monitor 70s (Zone 1)
Polk Monitor 40s (Zone 2)
Post edited by EFanning on

Comments

  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited August 2008
    At 60 ft you should ideally have 12ga. If that's not an option, go with the 14ga but I'd dismiss the 16ga outright.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited August 2008
    14ga is fine up to about 80' with 8ohm speakers. 40' with 4ohm speakers. 16ga is too small for a 60' run either way.
  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited August 2008
    Monoprice has 12AWG CL2 rated speaker wire for $31.90 in 100ft and $77.00 in 250ft. It's great stuff and they have smaller gauges also available.
  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited August 2008
    p.s. You cannot compare wire guages unless you consider length, load AND power.

    The current through the wire and the length give you an estimate of the power loss. You cannot use a flat ohm rating to say which wire is sufficient.

    At 80 watts per channel(8 ohm) and 60 feet, 12 gauge will be overkill. I like overkill myself, though.
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2008
    you could get the bi-wire and run shotgun and tie the ends together at the termination points, going to give you better than 14 guage.

    RT1
  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited August 2008
    I'd go the Belden route,very nice wire for the $.
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited August 2008
    Just get a bose wireless system and be done with it.

    (to answer your question though - I would recommend 12ga., if not an option, get the 14ga.)

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
  • John K.
    John K. Posts: 822
    edited August 2008
    EF, the often-cited explanation by a veteran audio professional of wire realities vs myths is linked here at http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm and is well-worth your study, including a table of suggested gauges that relates directly to your question. First, if you literally mean bi-wiring, with the connecting strip between the sets of terminals removed, this would be of no benefit. If you actually meant twisting the two 16ga wires together to form a single wire, the effect of doing that would be to create a 13ga wire. You would then of course use two of them to connect to either the upper or lower terminals on your Monitor 30s, with the connecting strip remaining.

    The net effect of this would be using the 250' of 16ga wire to give you the same result as 125' of 13ga wire. The slightly lower resistance of the 13ga wiring as compared to the 14ga wiring wouldn't be of much significance and be worth the bother of combining the 16ga wires, but that's your call.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,729
    edited August 2008
    Some better advice. Whatever you read at roger-russell.com, IGNORE IT!!! Better yet, don't waste your time reading that BS.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • EFanning
    EFanning Posts: 60
    edited September 2008
    Alright. Thanks for the responses, which shifted my $50 speaker wire search to a 12-gauge only hunt.

    I have options, listed below, please reply by endorsing an option. (To see back story, scroll to top of thread.)

    1. Buy 12-gauge Boss Audio car wire for $40 delivered and wrap it in electrical tape or some kind of insulator. Wire listed here:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSS-125-ft-12-GAUGE-SPEAKER-WIRE_W0QQitemZ230282135372QQihZ013QQcategoryZ32810QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

    2. Buy this stuff, which looks safer as in-wall wire:

    http://www.loseyourhearing.com/servlet/the-52/12-G2-Gauge-Twisted/Detail

    3. Monoprice has the cheapest 12-gauge in-wall wire but does not have the length (125 ft) I need. They have 250 ft for about $100 delivered. I could sell the other half on the Bay or maybe get a friend to go in for half.

    4. Dude, go back to the 14-gauge Belden 5100UE from Westlake Electronic. Give up the 12-gauge hunt.
    Marantz DV4001 CD and DVD
    WD TV Live Hub with 1 TB (Need DacMagic)
    Marantz PM7001 Integrated amplifier
    Philips GA 312 Turntable
    Polk Monitor 70s (Zone 1)
    Polk Monitor 40s (Zone 2)
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited September 2008
    John K. wrote: »
    EF, the often-cited explanation by a veteran audio professional of wire realities vs myths is linked here at http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm and is well-worth your study, including a table of suggested gauges that relates directly to your question. First, if you literally mean bi-wiring, with the connecting strip between the sets of terminals removed, this would be of no benefit. If you actually meant twisting the two 16ga wires together to form a single wire, the effect of doing that would be to create a 13ga wire. You would then of course use two of them to connect to either the upper or lower terminals on your Monitor 30s, with the connecting strip remaining.

    The net effect of this would be using the 250' of 16ga wire to give you the same result as 125' of 13ga wire. The slightly lower resistance of the 13ga wiring as compared to the 14ga wiring wouldn't be of much significance and be worth the bother of combining the 16ga wires, but that's your call.


    And I thought you were gone... Again... Let people be open minded. I've heard clear differences in ICs and speaker wire brands and configurations. In our last trials, the wire I expected to sound "better" sounded far worse and closed in on my system.

    EFanning, Just my opinion, but I would stay away from wire advice from JohnK.

    I used the Belden wire in my basement HT and am quite happy with it. If this wiring is for the rears, its a no brainer.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3

    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited September 2008
    Again... Let people be open minded.
    EFanning, Just my opinion, but I would stay away from wire advice from JohnK.

    These two statements seem just a bit contradictory. He should be open minded, but ignore opinions that don't agree with your own...I see.
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited September 2008
    $76 for 12ga. belden wire from blue jeans cable. (for about 125 feet but you can get it pre cut to your exact lengths needed from blue jeans cable) I will say that it is twisted cable and can be a pain to try and run under baseboard and things. It is in wall rated though.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited September 2008
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    These two statements seem just a bit contradictory. He should be open minded, but ignore opinions that don't agree with your own...I see.

    Let me rephrase that..... Stay away from wire advice from JohnK because he is closed minded in the respect that he consistently tells people that they can't possibly hear a difference in different wires because...blah blah blah

    I'm saying, let people try on their own and if they don't hear a difference, great, you'll save yourself a lot of money down the road.

    My BS is in Physics and I could come up with more crap than JK supporting what he is saying, but facts are facts, I've heard very large difference with different cables. I used to be a cable non-believer because it just didn't make sense to me that different cables would matter, but I was shown otherwise.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3

    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited September 2008
    All I have to say is listen to your ears. If you don't hear a difference great. If you do proceed.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited September 2008
    John K. wrote: »
    EF, the often-cited explanation by a veteran audio professional of wire realities vs myths is linked here at http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm and is well-worth your study
    Now THAT'S funny! ;)

    Well worth your study? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • Icarium
    Icarium Posts: 17
    edited September 2008
    For doing something like this do you terminate or tin the ends of your wires? I am just about to complete my first speaker rig and am looking for some wiring solutions on the cheap.