DVD Player with 5.1 Analog Out

Shicks18

I am about to buy a new DVD Player with 5.1 Analog Out, A Yellow Video Out, HDMI out, S-Video Out, Optical and Digital Coax Out.

I plan on getting 6 interconnects and using the 5.1 Analog Out. So now that sound is covered, what would I use for video? Could I use HDMI as video transport only? Or would I need to use the S-Video or the Yellow Video Out?

I imagine that I could use HDMI out and just change my receiver to the multi-channel audio setting?

Thanks for your help.

mmadden28

Keiko wrote: »

HDMI will give you the best picture quality, so I'd recommend that. You will get the best results running the HDMI cable directly from the source player to the TV.

Ditto. The DVD player should allow you to configure which path to send the audio. I have mine connected both ways. I use HDMI for video and audio when playing DVDs, and set to Multichannel out on the analog lines when playing SACD or DVD-A while Video goes out HDMI....Acually now that I think about it, I might acually be seleting the analog vs digital input from the DVD player on the actual AVR (Onk SR805).

McLoki

Why are you using the analog rather than digital outputs on your DVD player? Is it HD or BluRay? What other benefit is there to letting your DVD player decode the digital sound rather than your AVR - other than to get sound processing that your AVR does not support?

(not trying to argue the point - just trying to get some additional knowledge here....)

Michael

WilliamM2

If you haven't bought a player yet, take a look at this one. Hook it up HDMI only, through the reciever. I imagine that Marantz you are using has decent DAC's, and it will not degrade the picture at all to pass it through the Marantz.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/486974189/pioneer-dv-48av

Face

McLoki wrote: »

Why are you using the analog rather than digital outputs on your DVD player?

As per McIntosh engineers, it's better to have the player do the decoding.

mmadden28

WilliamM2 wrote: »

If you haven't bought a player yet, take a look at this one. Hook it up HDMI only, through the reciever. I imagine that Marantz you are using has decent DAC's, and it will not degrade the picture at all to pass it through the Marantz.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/486974189/pioneer-dv-48av

Awesome! It sends the SACD out via HDMI!! And its 1080p upconversion.
I have the DV-46AV its only 1080i up and SACD must go out analog.
I'm snagging one. I'll use the DV-46AV for my 2 Channel setup for SACD(2 Ch mode)/CD.

Shicks18

I was looking at the Marantz DV6600 for the player.... Would that Pioneer one be a better choice?

WilliamM2

mmadden28 wrote: »

Awesome! It sends the SACD out via HDMI!! And its 1080p upconversion.
I have the DV-46AV its only 1080i up and SACD must go out analog.
I'm snagging one. I'll use the DV-46AV for my 2 Channel setup for SACD(2 Ch mode)/CD.

And it will send it out as either LPCM or pure DSD. It originally retailed for $300. I've tried several players in the $400 to $700 this year, and they all had issues with one disc or another. The Pioneer plays anything without a hitch.

mmadden28

Shicks18 wrote: »

I was looking at the Marantz DV6600 for the player.... Would that Pioneer one be a better choice?

One thing that stands out is that the Marantz is only 1080i, if that matters to you, where the DV-48AV is 1080p and based on one price I found $80 less.

Shicks18

Would player would output better sound and picture quality overall? The Pioneer DV-48AV's price is nice. The Marantz DV6600 is a $600 player I could get refurbd for $180.

McLoki

Keiko wrote: »

Sacd???

Ahh - thanks, I don't have an SACD player, so never thought of that. I think some of the newer players will send the SACD output stream via HDMi, but not many... Thanks.

Face wrote: »

As per McIntosh engineers, it's better to have the player do the decoding.

This is interesting, I have not heard of that before. I wonder why it is better to have the player do the decoding? Would that just be for McIntosh players (assuming they make them)? It would be surprising if the DAC's in your average $100 player were better than the ones in most $1,000 and up pre/pros or AVR's. (possible, but surprising)

Michael

Shicks18

How would an Oppo compare to the Pioneer Elite or the Marantz DV6600 ??

Also, did you say that SACD and DVDA could be sent through HDMI for Multichannel and I wouldn't need analog cables?

Face

Shicks18 wrote: »

Also, did you say that SACD and DVDA could be sent through HDMI for Multichannel and I wouldn't need analog cables?

If both the player and receiver/prepro support this feature, yes for SACD. I don't know if it would work for DVD-A since I'm not familiar with the format.

mmadden28

Face wrote: »

If both the player and receiver/prepro support this feature, yes for SACD. I don't know if it would work for DVD-A since I'm not familiar with the format.

I'm pretty sure the analog restriction of certain players is just SACD. I am pretty sure I had DVD-A out via HDMI. After all its part of the DVD format, and the DVD Video along with its audio went out HDMI. Just not SACD.
I just disconnected it to move to my 2-channel system-so I can't verify right now

mmadden28

mmadden28 wrote: »

Awesome! It sends the SACD out via HDMI!! And its 1080p upconversion.
I have the DV-46AV its only 1080i up and SACD must go out analog.
I'm snagging one. I'll use the DV-46AV for my 2 Channel setup for SACD(2 Ch mode)/CD.

Just got the DV-48AV today and hooked it up--yeehaa it does indeed send the SACD output via HDMI via DSD. And also does the full 1080p upconversion even though it said 1080i in some places on the Vann's site.

One thing I noted however is that you can't control the Layer via the player anymore-In otherwords you can't force the CD Layer, the 2 Channel SACD Layer, or the multichannel SACD layer, when using HDMI outputs (the options are grayed out). Using HDMI with DSD-My AVR now displays the incoming stream as DSD. :cool:

I guess now the AVR decides what to play? Anybody know this answer?
If I press Stereo on the AVR it displays 'STEREO' plays in 2 ch, and when I press surround-it displays 'DSD' and plays multichannel-I'm just not sure if when I choose Stereo is it playing the full 2 ch. audio or only what was normally on the Left and Right channels in MC mode.
And how would one select the plain CD layer?

Also if I use the HDMI out option, am I bypassing the DAC in the player and using the DAC in the AVR?

Face

mmadden28 wrote: »

Also if I use the HDMI out option, am I bypassing the DAC in the player and using the DAC in the AVR?

Correct.

WilliamM2

One thing I noted however is that you can't control the Layer via the player anymore-In otherwords you can't force the CD Layer, the 2 Channel SACD Layer, or the multichannel SACD layer, when using HDMI outputs (the options are grayed out). Using HDMI with DSD-My AVR now displays the incoming stream as DSD.

If you turn HDMI audio out off, you can then change the options. Then turn it back on. It will keep the settings.

TNRabbit

Did I read somewhere that if you play the video via HDMI & the sound via 5.1 outputs, you can get a delay (not synced) between video/audio?

mmadden28

WilliamM2 wrote: »

If you turn HDMI audio out off, you can then change the options. Then turn it back on. It will keep the settings.

I was able to do that, but I am not sure it 'obeys' that setting. When set to 2 ch. then back to HDMI it was still multichannel via DSD. I was quite tired last night when I tried-perhaps I'll try again tonight. I'll try DVD-A via HDMI tonight as well.

I suppose I'll call Pioneer today and ask them. The manual is not very detailed about the SACD options--- I'm into mutlitchannel (on my HT setup), but I also want to hear it in 2 channel as well, and at times I want to be able to compare the CD to SACD layers (for my own edification).

I really don't want to hookup a plethora of ICs again, its just too tight in my entertainment center for all that cable, and yet one more place for the cable to possibly color the audio as well as possibly pickup interference.

If only they had a simple button on the front hat let you choose ther layer to play-Or at least be able to selct it via menu from the Player's display-You have to have an extrnal display to see the options.

mmadden28

TNRabbit wrote: »

Did I read somewhere that if you play the video via HDMI & the sound via 5.1 outputs, you can get a delay (not synced) between video/audio?

With my previous model the DV-46AV I was hooked up that way sort of, but I only used the analog out when playing SACD. I used the HDMI for audio and Video when watching any DVDs-I didn't see a need to split them since my AVR was capable of decoding all the audio formats. The Onk 805 did allow me to decide which audio source to use (HDMI or MC in)-I'm sure I played with that option-but I don't remember ever seeing any delays between audio and video sync with either.

MKZ

....

WilliamM2

If only they had a simple button on the front hat let you choose ther layer to play-Or at least be able to selct it via menu from the Player's display-You have to have an extrnal display to see the options.

Another workaround is to set video output to 480i, this will force the 2 channel layer of the SACD, because you need 720p or higher for multi-channel. And there is an HDMI button on the remote.

mmadden28

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Another workaround is to set video output to 480i, this will force the 2 channel layer of the SACD, because you need 720p or higher for multi-channel. And there is an HDMI button on the remote.

Hmm, good idea-So you think it will do the 2 channel SACD not the CD layer? I'll try that tonight.

WilliamM2

mmadden28 wrote: »

Hmm, good idea-So you think it will do the 2 channel SACD not the CD layer? I'll try that tonight.

According to what I have read, it will read the SACD layer. I have never tried it though.

My other idea was half right, if you disable HDMI, and change the setting to 2 channel LPCM, it will hold the setting, but not if set to 2 channel DSD. You may want to try it, the difference between LPCM and DSD is very subtle, I found LPCM sounded better on my Onkyo 885, and DSD sounds better on my Yamaha 1800. Either way, if you are using bass management (or any processing) in your processor, I believe it is converted to LPCM anyways.

xandra

I was eyeballing that DV-48 also, as well as the DV-58.
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/486672987/pioneer-dv-58av;jsessionid=3357091EDB986EC4C00D936A1FF6327D.web1

Curious myself, I scanned the DV-58 manual and noticed something about NOT sending multichannel via HDMI. So I called Pioneer support,the tech said it will only do 2 channel DSD via HDMI. (dunno about redbook layer).
I wasn't able to download a DV-48 manual but you might want to look at the contradictory and confusing charts on page 22 of the DV-58 manual.
Interestingly, the only difference between the 2 models (according to the tech): DV-58 is capable of doing 192 bit on DVD-audio and supposedly has better video upscaler. So assuming your reciever has a good upscaler the DV-48 sounds like a much better deal.

mmadden28

xandra wrote: »

...(dunno about redbook layer).

With the auto DSD setting on the 48, it played Redbook and SACD via HDMI.
After I give the kids a bath, I'll try a few more things.

WilliamM2

Curious myself, I scanned the DV-58 manual and noticed something about NOT sending multichannel via HDMI. So I called Pioneer support,the tech said it will only do 2 channel DSD via HDMI.

Tech support is wrong. The 58 does do multi channel DSD over HDMI. It's been confirmed by users over at AVS. As you said, the two players are pretty much the same.

mmadden28

OK, here are my results-I'll try not to go into too much detail but, I can also confirm that the 48 does do multichannel DSD over HDMI. I saw the same thing mentioned in the 48 manual-but later said it would. I think that they simply used the 46 manual as a template, but forgot to remove that stuff. Just a guess.

I listened to a redbook CD a DVD-A, and a couple SACDs. Turns out the one SACD I have that only seemed to be playing in 2 channel (Chesky Jazz Side of the Moon) although its marked as Hybrid Multi Channel on the outer cover (it is not marked thaway on the jewel case cover or the disc itself) either isn't really multi channel or truly will only work over Analog with this particular disc-I am not hooked up that way anymore so I won't be able to confirm right now. I have several other SACDs and they all play multi channel fine.

In almost all cases, when the DVD HMDI out was set to Auto (DSD) it was noticeabley lower in volume then any of the other settings particularly LPCM.

I also noticed that my Onk 805 interpreted the incoming stream differently depending on the DVD's HDMI output setting ((Direct, MultiChannel, DTS, DD, etc). It also depended on the source audio (DTS, DSD, DD, etc). I created a chart of my findings, but I won't put them here-not really sure they're relevant.

I was able to confirm what layers weer being played by hitting "Display" on the DVD remote. It would show SACD or CD, and what format, (Dolby Digital, DTS, LPCM, 3/2.1, 3/2.0, etc.).

I was unable to force a later to play by overriding the HDMI out to 'off' setting the layer to read, and putting the HDMI outs back on (in any mode)-the setting was ignored and played the SACD Multi layer. (at least I think I tested that all the way)

Switching the display to a lower resolution (such as 480i) did not change the output noticeably. The sound cuts off for a moment, the screen resizes, then the sound comes back on, but as far as I can tell there was no change and the DVD "Display" still shows the multi channel output as well I still hear audio on all speakers.

The DVD-A disc had multiple output formats on it (DTS, DD AC-3, 2 ch PCM) and it played them all in every DVD HDMI output setting I tried. The only difference again was in how the Onkyo interpreted the incoming stream (Direct, Multi Channel, DTS, DD, etc).

So it seems that this unit will indeed play multichannel CD, SACD and DVD-A via HDMI exclusively.


I suppose I'll have to manually switch the HDMI output mode if I want to change the mode I want to listen in (2 ch vs multi). It sure would be nice to know if the signal is coming over in DSD, that the Processor would know how to play the 2 ch vs multi depening on how the processor is selected (i.e. on the Onk pressing Stereo would play the 2 ch, while pressing Surround would play the multichannel version. I don't know enough about DSD to know-but one would think taht is how it should work.

Not sure if I'll use Auto (DSD) or LPCM 5.1. I like when the Onk displays what it is recieveing (DD, DTS, DSD), and not just Direct or Multi for everything. Other than the volume, I wonder if the SQ is any different. All the SACDs I have have some DSD marking and they actually tout that feature, so it would seem that its the desired option.

guptonr

mmadden28 wrote: »

Awesome! It sends the SACD out via HDMI!! And its 1080p upconversion.
I have the DV-46AV its only 1080i up and SACD must go out analog.
I'm snagging one. I'll use the DV-46AV for my 2 Channel setup for SACD(2 Ch mode)/CD.

I have a similar set up, the DV-48AV and an Onkyo sr705. I run HDMI for audio and vidio (DVD) through the AVR and have 2ch analog connected to a Yamaha CR-2020. The damn thing is pretty smart. If I put in a 5.1 SACD and the onkyo is turned on, digital (DSD) is output to the Onkyo. If the onko is off, 2 ch analog goes to the Yammy.