Suggestions on a new subwoofer.

The Old Gaffer

HI Polk forum users and Happy New Year!

I was wondering if anyone could make a suggestion on a sub for my system. I would like to buy something in the $400-$500 range.

I currently have a PSW 450. sometimes it sounds great with music and movies and other times it don't.

My current equipment list is as follows.
Reciever - Onkyo TXDS-696
DVD/DVD Audio - Denon 1600
Fronts - Polk 800I's
Center - Polk CS400I
Surrounds Polk FX500I's
Sub - Polkl PSW 450

Thanks!

The old gaffer

goingganzo

if you want to buld one your self you can get the av15 at pre order still and get a amp for it. that is if you want to buld your own sub.

how do it sound bad like it runs out of steam? if it dont have enough for you you can allways add a seccond.

or try the svs subs or vf-2 or a velo cht 12

or get a good used sub to add to your curent sub. shameless plug.

ghostjwm

I have almost the exact same setup but added dual HSU VTF-2 subwoofers and couldn't be more pleased. I added dual subs due to the size of my room with is 24x15x12 and it rocks! I highly recommend the HSU line!

Dr. Spec

In affordable commerical subs, both SVS and HSU are the performance/dollar leaders.

I think SVS holds a performance edge over HSU, but they are close.

Both websites contain links to independent reviews.

SVS will soon have a line of box subs for those that have trouble with the size or look of the cylinder sub.

Personally, I love the look of my 20-39PC+ - it is menacing and imposing; you know this sub means business when you see it.

Doc

ghostjwm

SVS are great subwoofers too but I think that HSU is a little better. Here is part of a review of both a SVS and a VTF-3 hope it helps! Also depending on what you want to spend the VTF-2 is $449 and the VTF-3 is $849. I went with dual VTF-2's due to my room layout and am extremely glad that I did!

Howard Ferstler, The Audiophile Voice October 2002 :

Part of my testing involved level-matched comparisons between the VTF-3 and several other upscale subs I had on hand. In a test-tone face off against a Velodyne F1800RII, with their outputs matched at 40 Hz, the two systems were subjectively identical down to about 30 Hz. At 20 Hz, the Hsu was 2dB louder than the Velodyne, although at moderately high levels the F1800RII was cleaner sounding at that test-tone frequency, but not by much. With musical selections the differences were impossible to detect at all, and it is likely that nobody could say that the Hsu was not a match for the Velodyne, unless the levels got really loud and low.

Against Hsu’s own TN1220HO model (driven by the new 250-watt Hsu amp mentioned previously), the results were identical in terms of output at both 30 Hz and 20 Hz, although at fairly high levels the TN1220HO was cleaner at 20 Hz. At 30 Hz, they paced each other right up to very high levels. With music, the subs were functionally identical sounding at sane listening levels.

Against an $850 SVS 16-46PC subwoofer, the two were equally clean at 30 Hz, at both soft and moderate levels, but with the SVS not quite so clean at higher levels. At 20 Hz, the units were essentially equal in terms of colorations. However, the SVS sub was 4 or 5 dB down from the Hsu at 20 Hz, with their levels matched at 40 Hz. With musical program sources, the two sounded essentially identical most of the time, with the Hsu perceptibly stronger below 25 Hz if the music contained such signals. This allowed the Hsu to have a slight edge with really super-clean, super-deep bass program sources.

I also gave the Hsu sub maximum-output tests at 31.5 and 20 Hz. In doing so, I locate my measurement microphone at the listening position, 17 feet from the corner-located test unit. Under those conditions, the VTF-3, configured for deepest extension, could cleanly hit 112 dB at 31.5 Hz and 100 dB at 20 Hz. Configured for maximum output, the numbers were 115 and 97 dB, respectively. As a point of reference, the TN1220HO, driven by Hsu’s new amp, could hit 113 dB at 31.5 Hz and 106 dB at 20 Hz. (In a previous review in another journal, using an older Hsu 250-watt amp, I measured 110 dB at 20 Hz. However, I am convinced that a slight change in microphone position skewed my reading.) The F1900RII could hit 114 and 110, and the SVS could hit 113 and 102.

Both the VTF-3 and SVS 16-46PC could play louder at 20 Hz than the limits noted, but in doing so they generated a fair amount of port noise. The TN1220HO and F1800RII were right up against their amp-output ceilings during those tests, and both were clean.

One way to separate the men from the boys with subwoofers is to see how well they perform with near-lethal movie soundtracks. I did my duty and watched the submarine movie U-571 on my living-room system with the VTF-3 handling all the bass. The depth-charge explosions in this film have to be heard to be believed, and believe me, they were heard in full force with the VTF-3.

Interestingly, I also did a brief face off between the VTF-3 and the low-priced VTF-2. For all intents and purposes, the two units sounded the same with typical bass material in a typical room. Only when bass dipped to below 25 Hz did the VTF-2 fall behind the VTF-3, although in a large room, at high output levels, there is little doubt that the bigger sub’s abilities would allow it to pull still further ahead. In its maximum-extension mode, the peak output of the VTF-2 at 31.5 and 20 Hz were 106 dB and 90 dB, respectively. Thus, the VTF-2 isn’t exactly chopped liver, and should be considered sensational for a $450 subwoofer, just not as good as what I got with the VTF-3.

To summarize, what we have here is a world-class subwoofer at a bargain basement price. With musical program sources the VTF-3 can hold its own with just about any other sub available, and the still lower-priced VTF-2 comes close to doing so as well. Yes, with test tones, some subs (including Hsu’s own TN1220HO) can surpass the VTF-3. But with musical program material – even demanding musical program material – the VTF-3 generates all the subwoofer performance any deep-bass enthusiast would need.

Dr. Spec

Whoaa...put the brakes on here ghostjwm.

The SV sub Ferstler refers to in your above post is (unfortunately for SVS), the original PC model, with the old standard driver and the 190W amp.

The PCi (with the "i" standing for Improved) line now contains the Improved Standard Driver (ISD) which has been shipping since around December 2001 - over a year now. It also has the 320W Indigo BASH amp.

The entire PCi line - in addition to being capable of much greater output with less THD than the original PC line, is now also a whole sight cheaper to boot, ranging from $550 to $650, depending on the enclosure size.

There isn't one SVS PCi sub that cannot significantly outperform the $450 HSU VTF-2 in output, and all of them either match or significantly exceed it in extension (depending on enclosure size).

As far as the $850 VTF-3 goes, the $775 SVS 20-39PC+ has twice the internal volume, twice the amp power, 50% more stock port area, 200% more tuned port area, more tuning flexibility, better phase control, a better SS filter, deeper extension both in stock and altered tune, and a boatload more output.

HSU makes a fine subwoofer - the VTF-2 and VTF-3 are well regarded box subs, and the TN1225HO and TN1220HO are well regarded cylinder subs. But there isn't a current production SVS product that can't convincingly outperform a comparably priced HSU product in terms of output, extension, and THD.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

M&K

Waits for Doc's SVS - M&K comparison...laughs histarically

The Old Gaffer

I love it when you guys get reved up! Seriously though thanks much for the info. I like the fact that Dr. Spec has essentially the same config that I have so I will probably go with the SVS. But thanks to Ghost for the full review of the HSU, I am also going to revisit their website just to check shipping cost and total cost comnparison with SVS. It dont look like I can go wrong with either choice.

Last question. Will I notice a big difference compared to the Polk PSW-450 that I already have?

Gaffer

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Originally posted by The Old Gaffer

Last question. Will I notice a big difference compared to the Polk PSW-450 that I already have?

Gaffer

dont need a pro for that...u will - most definetely....

goingganzo

depends if you get rid of the 450 or add to it. the more subs you have the more bass. if you just go with the new sub it will be beter but ig you add the new sub and keep the 450 you will even get more. if you keep the old 450 just run it on the cool side. b/c if you dont the 450 will run out of steam and distort befor the other gets near its limit. when i calabrate my subs i need a friends help. my amp and the velo plate amp is olny asesable from the other room.