Problems refinishing my Polk Monitor 10Bs...
jon s
Posts: 905
After recapping my Monitor 10Bs, i decided to strip off the peeling vinyl and re-veneer the cabinets. Removing the original vinyl was actually easier if you use a hot iron set to cotton and heat the vinyl thru kraft paper. It was a lot easier than using a heat gun.
I just did the bottom of both speakers so far. i used Titebond II wood glue. Plastered it on both the speaker and the veneer. Waited until the glue dried a bit, put it together and ironed the veneer. After that, i rollered with a J-roller and let it cool down. The problem is now that the veneer did not adhere well to the speaker. I can easily lift the edges of the veneer right off the speaker.
Secondly, i used Sauders Walnut veneer from Woodcraft. I think it is 1/42" with 10mil paper backing. From what I read, it is supposed to be quite easy to cut the veneer using a new X-acto blade or a veneer cutter. I find that the veneer is very hard to cut, and that it readily dulls the cutting blades.
Questions are... what am I doing wrong????
I just did the bottom of both speakers so far. i used Titebond II wood glue. Plastered it on both the speaker and the veneer. Waited until the glue dried a bit, put it together and ironed the veneer. After that, i rollered with a J-roller and let it cool down. The problem is now that the veneer did not adhere well to the speaker. I can easily lift the edges of the veneer right off the speaker.
Secondly, i used Sauders Walnut veneer from Woodcraft. I think it is 1/42" with 10mil paper backing. From what I read, it is supposed to be quite easy to cut the veneer using a new X-acto blade or a veneer cutter. I find that the veneer is very hard to cut, and that it readily dulls the cutting blades.
Questions are... what am I doing wrong????
Post edited by jon s on
Comments
-
Xacto knives are worthless for cutting any straight lines. I use a regular rectangular thin razor blade to do cuts like that. There is a trimmer from PE that is supposed to do the trick.
BenPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Titebond II wood glue is not meant to be used for veneer application. There are glues (contact cement) made specifically for veneer. Rough cut the veneer with a razor blade like Ben does. To get straight, smooth edge cuts after the veneer is applied and the glue has set up, use a flush cut router bit.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=737
Here's a good site with plenty of help. Great products and great prices.
They've helped me a couple of times when I had issues.
Good luck and send pics when done. I love nice woodwork.
hb -
Xacto knives are worthless for cutting any straight lines. I use a regular rectangular thin razor blade to do cuts like that. There is a trimmer from PE that is supposed to do the trick.
Ben
I bought the Parts Express Band-It trimmer and it is useless, it doesn't cut at all. My guess is that the Band-It veneer must be thinner but I am not sure. -
Titebond II wood glue is not meant to be used for veneer application. There are glues (contact cement) made specifically for veneer. Rough cut the veneer with a razor blade like Ben does. To get straight, smooth edge cuts after the veneer is applied and the glue has set up, use a flush cut router bit.
Merrylander of AudioKarma used this method and swears it works... I ended up regluing the veneer and clamping the veneer down. -
I bought the Parts Express Band-It trimmer and it is useless, it doesn't cut at all. My guess is that the Band-It veneer must be thinner but I am not sure.
The edge banding I've used does seem a bit thinner then regular veneer. I didn't have any issues using the trimmer other then the blades dulling.
I'll second the Veneer Supplies site as a great source of information and products.
I'd also listen to Jesse (F1nut). He's referred to as the "wood jedi" around here, and for good reason.
Anyway, good luck with your project, and be sure to post pictures when it's done.Wristwatch--->Crisco -
You have to clamp the veneer down while the glue sets, no matter what.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The dinged corners were posing a problem. I found a solution with LocTite Epoxy Putty. You cut off a portion and knead it until it turns grey. stick it on the corners and after one hour you can sand it down to size. Works pretty well.
-
Well, the refinishing is coming along now... the first panel (on the bottoms) came out horrendous... so I peeled the veneer all off and resanded the bottoms.
This time i was more methodical. I used a 4" foam roller to apply the Titebond II glue to the veneer and the speaker. Waited 30 minutes until the glue dried and reapplied the glue again. Waited about 20 minutes until it was almost dry and placed the veneer back on the cabinets. i then ironed over the veneer with kraft paper between the veneer and the iron. I then used a J-roller to apply pressure to flatten out any bubbles as it cooled down as the glue bonds as it cools. This time it worked like a charm.
I then used a RotoZip with a laminate trim router bit and cleaned up the edges. It left a lip of about 1/32" which was easily sanded down. Good hints for future jobs...
1. Do the front panel first. then the bottom, the two sides and the top... this way you get the least amount of edges of the veneer showing.
2. To trim the veneer use a utility knife with new blades... two or three strokes and you are done. The Xacto knives were pretty much useless.
3. pre-cut the veneer with about 1/2-3/4" overhang on each side. Tape the veneer down with painters (blue) masking tape with the paper backing facing up. Just tape the extreme edges so that it holds the veneer down while you apply the glue. That way the veneer won't be shifting all around ans you roller the glue. It also prevents glue from getting on the veneered side.
4. while a random orbital sander makes sanding the cabinet easier, use a block sander on the veneer itself.
5. Use a disposable foam roller to apply the glue.. it comes out pretty even Make sure there are NO ridges on the glued surface which will make the veneer a bit uneven. Plan on using at least one quart of glue for a pair of speakers.
Sorry but this time I was just too lazy to take pictures of the work in progress. I will post some pictures of the cabinet before I oil it with Danish oil and the after shots.
You can find some useful tips on veneering here, here and here. -
sorry, last link was duped.. should point to here....
-
Okay, the speakers are just about finished...
Picture 1 shows the speaker with the front edges before they were taped off so i can apply the TiteBond II glue.
Picture 2 is showing the speakers with the side panels completed...
Picture 3 shows the speakers with all the veneer completed...
Picture 4 & 5 shows the speakers after I used Danish Oil on them. Couple of things I am not to keen about. The finish looks a bit uneven in overall tone... some blotchiness. Secondly, I did some test finishes with different Danish Oils from Watco to select the color i wanted. After the veneer was applied, the oil finish ended up a LOT lighter than the samples did. Not too sure why... i did sand down the veneer after it was applied. Did not want to sand it too much as veneer is really thin.
Next time, i think i will use oil based stains and finish it with polyurethane and see how it comes out. I know I can use a wood conditioner on oil based stains so that the finish comes out less blotchy. But I just like the look of an oil based finished and from what i read, you should not use wood conditioners as it prevents the Danish Oil from penetrating the wood.
Anyway, i have to apply a few more coats of Danish Oil (one coat a day) and then let it cure for 72 hours before i wax them. -
It's not too late to remove the Watco. Scrub them very well with paint thinner, let dry a day or two and then you can use an oil based stain.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The dinged corners were posing a problem. I found a solution with LocTite Epoxy Putty. You cut off a portion and knead it until it turns grey. stick it on the corners and after one hour you can sand it down to size. Works pretty well.
I do a lot of cabinet refurbishing (see cash lanes, retail store cabinetry), stuff that sees lots of traffic. When filling in imperfections, dented corners, screw holes, etc I have found Bondo is the best for the job.
Also for applying laminate 3M's Hi-Strength 90 spray adhesive is an excellent choice, as well as Wilsonart's 500 or 600 roll-on contact adhesive. These are both high bond adhesives that will last longer than the laminate itself.(((STEREO)))
Sony DVP-N9000es
Squeezebox Duet
Theta ProBasic IIIA
Audio Research SP14
White Audio Labs B1
Transparent SoundWave Super
Paradigm Studio Monitor
B&W 802 s3
HT
Sony Bravia KDL-40Z4100
Sony BDP-S350
Yamaha HTR-5790
NHT SB3 (Fronts)
NHT SC2 (center)
NHT SB2 (surround)
Velodyne FSR12 -
The watco may have went on lighter than your samples because of sanding with fine grit paper before applying the oil. If you are going to remove the watco (per F1nut with thinner, etc) use 180 grit or so to re-open the grain after they are stripped and dry. There will still be some watco left in the veneer but you can get a lot off.
You can also use products that will minimize the blotchiness when staining porous woods such as pine, etc. It's a pre-stain sanding sealer type of product that allows the stain to absorb more evenly in woods that soak up the finish, or woods that have both heartwood and sapwood to stain (sapwood generally soaks up the finish alot more than hardwoods and can become blotchy) -
I think the iron plus the heat and the roller compressed the wood grains to prevent the oil from soaking in. I know better now that i really have to open up the fibers of the veneer before staining by using a coarser sandpaper.
