SDA 1 vs. SDA 2B

13

Comments

  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    Yep. If one is dead short(to ground(bottom I think)), and the top's are 2-4ohms than it is a transition model with the same XO's as the 1C.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
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    Ben
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    Lasareath wrote: »
    hmmmm, ben Can you really be that sure?, I think that the crossovers are from a pair of 1B's

    What gives you that impression? There was a transitional model and his serial numbers fit with the blade/blade early 1C's which need a plug adapter and x-over modification to be AI-1 compatible.

    I don't understand where you are getting the idea these are 1B's? The cabinet and the drivers model #'s clearly mean it's a 1C albeit an early 1C.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    Lasareath wrote: »
    1st I never seen a Blade/Blade 1C

    I've seen many Blade/Blade 1B's

    It would be really strange if the only piece of these speakers that came from 1B's is the Blade/Blade socket.

    Would polk have really taken 99% of 1C's and soldered a Blade/Blade on?

    I guess we'll never know until they get opened up.

    Anybody have pictures of a 1B & 1C crossovers before any mods?, If you do please post them, The we can see who was correct.

    Sal

    Yes early 1C's had blade/blade, right channel serial # 6001-6310 & 6501-6678
    left channel #5975-6370 & 6532-6656 are blade/blade 1C's which need a plug adapter as well as a x-over modification to use the AI-1.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    I'll pull a PW and snap a pic or two. Gimme a couple of mins, brb...
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    Lasareath wrote: »
    So, your saying that I'm most likely correct? (1B crossover with a Blade/Blade socket)

    No it's different than a1B x-over. My belief based on what I've read is that it is a 1C x-over just with blade/blade; not a left over 1B x-over put in an early 1C. If that was the case then 1B's could be modified to use the AI-1 and as far as I am aware that can't be done.

    Remember the drivers are different from the 1B to the 1C so it can't be the same x-over used in a 1B. It's a 1C x-over with blade/blade not 1B x-over.:)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    Dammit Sal ;), there are two kinds of 1C x-overs there's a single board x-over and split board x-over. Also early 1C's of which I've listed the serial numbers which his fit in between have BLADE/BLADE. It's not a 1B X-over in his 1C's.

    It can't be the same x-over because the driver are DIFFERENT than the drivers in a 1B.

    He has a very early pair of 1C's. I don't know how much more plain I can make it. These damn words on a screen don't get the point across sometimes :).

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    Two part XO. Sorry if the pics aren't terrific, tough to get it right with them still mounted inside:

    IMG_7893.JPG

    IMG_7891.JPG
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    Lasareath wrote: »

    If that's the case, then all nspindel needs to do is make a AI-1 cable with Blade/Blade connectors on it.

    No that's not entirely true, his x-overs need to have a modification done to them and Ken should be able to help him with that. The serial numbers I posted require a slight x-over mod to use the AI-1 interphase cable.

    Have you been following this thread at all :D:p;).

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    So Sal had the right picture.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    nspindel wrote: »
    Two part XO. Sorry if the pics aren't terrific, tough to get it right with them still mounted inside:

    Actually I think the split board is he easier of the (2) types to work on since you don't have to fit all the new larger parts on a single PCB.

    Any driver #'s yet?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Ok, you don't have to raise your voice!

    Sorry not yelling at you :)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
    What are the numbers on the two caps that are piggy backed?
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    I posted the driver info earlier, they're the 6510/6511 combo.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    One wire to IC socket ='s 100% 1C.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    nspindel wrote: »
    I posted the driver info earlier, they're the 6510/6511 combo.

    Sorry, missed it...........now who's not paying attention, duh ;)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    nspindel wrote: »
    I posted the driver info earlier, they're the 6510/6511 combo.

    1C's;)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    Lasareath wrote: »
    If the glue is dripping towards the front panel than they are 1C's,

    If it's yellow and dripping away from the front panel then they made them in the winter months.

    Penicillin:D
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    What are the numbers on the two caps that are piggy backed?

    I can't see the top cap, it's mounted in such a way that you can't read it, all I can see is "11K" running across. But the bottom one is a 20uf.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    3 inductors on the HP=1C's :)
    Can you get 194's still?
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    3 inductors on the HP=1C's :)
    Can you get 194's still?

    Yes.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    So looking at the 1C XO schematic, looks like I need the following per XO:

    12uf, with a 750pf to bypass (which I'll probably skip...)
    2.7ohm
    2 x 7.5ohm
    20uf
    40uf

    So I guess the 40 is really the 2 x 20's piggy backed.

    Schematic indicates the 12uf is a mylar. I'm guessing that's the yellow guy based on the mica cap in parallel. I can just use a normal 12uf Sonicap there?

    Then there's the 16mH inductor that I'll probably replace with an iron core like I did on the 2B's.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    nspindel wrote: »
    So looking at the 1C XO schematic, looks like I need the following per XO:

    12uf, with a 750pf to bypass (which I'll probably skip...)
    2.7ohm
    2 x 7.5ohm
    20uf
    40uf

    So I guess the 40 is really the 2 x 20's piggy backed.

    Schematic indicates the 12uf is a mylar. I'm guessing that's the yellow guy based on the mica cap in parallel. I can just use a normal 12uf Sonicap there?

    Then there's the 16mH inductor that I'll probably replace with an iron core like I did on the 2B's.

    Always make sure to compare the x-over to the schematic. The schematics aren't always the last word. If you look at the pic Las put up I don't see a bypass cap; and yes eliminate it because you will using much higher quality caps in that spot.

    I have no idea about the inductor but Matthew and Stu I believe wrote something about why changing inductors can be a tricky thing and not necessarily a good habit. It can have a drastic effect on the overall voicing. That was a recent post but I can't seem to find it.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited July 2008
    Here's the post I was talking about, probably already read it but.....

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=846791&postcount=21

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    The schematic looks consistent with what I've. Top section is three caps, two of which are doubled up. They all look to be the same cap, so I think that's the 20 and the 40 (which is the doubled 20's). Bottom section is the yellow cap bypassed with the brown mica, and three resistors.

    I read that inductor post by Matthew and Stu. As I recall, the issues with iron core inductors tend to occur at high volumes. In my 12 x 12 listening space I don't think it's an issue. I replaced the 3.5ohm stock air-core inductor with the .5ohm iron core inductor in my 2B's and the results were excellent.

    I think Ben does inductors in all of his rebuilds, right Ben?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    I have pretty much gone active where I can. Even non iron core inductors are the biggest source of distortion in passive XO's.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    Ok, bed time, gotta go to work in the morning. I've got Sonicaps to pay for!!!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Can you get 194's still?

    Yes, spoke to Ken today, 194's are back in stock.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    nspindel I'm tubed. Check this out...
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70503
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2008
    Wow. The electrical talk is 90% Greek to me, but the functionality sounds awesome!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited July 2008
    Don't help me threadjack your own thread:p If you have any ?'s about it we can carry on over there:) Sorry about the derail I just got exciteded, and seen you looking:o
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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