Turntable Questions

Serendipity

Hi,

Been looking at turntables recently and have the following question: I've come across some records at my grandma's place which must be at least 40 years old. I know some of the records are LP's, but some may not be. Now would it be okay to play these on a modern turntable?

What about the different speeds (33, 45, and 78 RPM)? How do I determine compatibility between a record and turntable?

Thanks!

skipf

Most full size albums made since the 50's are 33rpm (actually 33 1/3). 45's were almost all singles (the small records). Rarely will you need 78 rpm which was the standard a long time ago. I still have some old 78's from the 40's, but don't have a turntable to play them on. Very few turntables even have a 78 rpm setting anymore. You also need a special stylus to play 78's. There are some newly released 12" albums that are recorded to playback at 45 rpm. I would think that vinyl is kinda like tape in that faster playback speeds improve the high end frequencies.

Serendipity

skipf wrote: »

Most full size albums made since the 50's are 33rpm (actually 33 1/3). 45's were almost all singles (the small records). Rarely will you need 78 rpm which was the standard a long time ago. I still have some old 78's from the 40's, but don't have a turntable to play them on. Very few turntables even have a 78 rpm setting anymore. You also need a special stylus to play 78's. There are some newly released 12" albums that are recorded to playback at 45 rpm. I would think that vinyl is kinda like tape in that faster playback speeds improve the high end frequencies.

So if I do find some 78's in the boxes of records, I would just need an adapter to play it on a modern turntable?

I'm currently in the process of choosing a turntable and I want to make sure that it is compatible with all the records I have. So something like the Audio-Technica AT-PL120 or Technics 1200 would be able to play everything?

Thanks!

Marty913

appadv wrote: »

So if I do find some 78's in the boxes of records, I would just need an adapter to play it on a modern turntable?

I'm currently in the process of choosing a turntable and I want to make sure that it is compatible with all the records I have. So something like the Audio-Technica AT-PL120 or Technics 1200 would be able to play everything?

Thanks!

According to the Panasonic web site, the Technic SL-1200MK2 does not have a 78 rpm speed.

According to the specs, the Audio-Technica AT-PL120 does have 33, 45, and 78 speeds. It also has a built-in preamplifier if you receiver/processor does not have a phono input. You would not need an adapter.

Serendipity

Marty913 wrote: »

According to the Panasonic web site, the Technic SL-1200MK2 does not have a 78 rpm speed.

According to the specs, the Audio-Technica AT-PL120 does have 33, 45, and 78 speeds. It also has a built-in preamplifier if you receiver/processor does not have a phono input. You would not need an adapter.

So, I take it that even though the Technics SL-1200 is a better turntable, it's not worth it (to me) because it can't play all records? I think I will look into the Audio-Technica unit then.

Also, what do I need to know before I buy a turntable? Can anyone give me a quick "primer" or a link to guide me in maintaining/setting up my first turntable?

Serendipity

After giving this some thought, I'd like to say that I'd prefer the Audio-Technica over the Technics.

But after searching the 'net, and Crutchfield Advisor, it seems that the Technics SL-1200 is a better turntable for sound quality. Is it really worth 2x the price?

madmax

The old 78's are cool to listen to.
madmax

billbillw

I wouldn't worry too much about playing 78's. Unless they are some cool old jazz, you will probably be disappointed in the sound. You also need a special 78 stylus to play them, so even with a player that does all the speeds, you need to have more than one cartridge.

billbillw

appadv wrote: »

After giving this some thought, I'd like to say that I'd prefer the Audio-Technica over the Technics.

But after searching the 'net, and Crutchfield Advisor, it seems that the Technics SL-1200 is a better turntable for sound quality. Is it really worth 2x the price?

Yes, the SL-1200 is a much better table. The AT has a thin platter that rings and the overall build quality is not up to that of the Technics. I've used both and greatly prefer the venerable SL-1200mk2

Serendipity

billbillw wrote: »

Yes, the SL-1200 is a much better table. The AT has a thin platter that rings and the overall build quality is not up to that of the Technics. I've used both and greatly prefer the venerable SL-1200mk2

Now I understand these are "DJ" turntables, but would they sound decent compared to a Music Hall, Denon, or Marantz hi-fi turntable? Or should I just forget about the Technics and Audio-Technica because I want good sound?

I appreciate all your help, I'm just getting started with vinyl...

shack

The Technics is a far superior table to the AT. It is considered to be a "giant killer" by some. I'm not sure that is accurate (it rarely is) but it is a solidly built table that has a good following. Here is a site that specializes in upgrading the table for sale.

KABUSA

Serendipity

shack wrote: »

The Technics is a far superior table to the AT. It is considered to be a "giant killer" by some. I'm not sure that is accurate (it rarely is) but it is a solidly built table that has a good following. Here is a site that specializes in upgrading the table for sale.

KABUSA

Giant killer compared to other DJ turntables? Or something like a Music Hall, Rega, etc?

billbillw

appadv wrote: »

Giant killer compared to other DJ turntables? Or something like a Music Hall, Rega, etc?

IMHO, the SL-1200mk2 will do better than the entry level offerings from the brands you mentioned, as long as you put a decent cartridge on it (not a DJ cart). A Shure M97XE or one of the Denon MC carts would be a great combo.

TroyD

The SL-1200 is one of the few direct drive tables that garners much respect outside of the DJ community.....

That said, if you are NOT a tweaker and you are new to the whole vinyl gig, you are better off, by a large margin, by buying a new table, ala Music Hall, Project, Rega..etc...that is plug and play. Setting up a table, while not difficult , takes some prior knowledge.

Don't worry about the 78's. They are more hassle to listen to then they are worth.

BDT

Serendipity

But I am a tweaker...

skipf

Then get an old AR, Garrard or Thorens belt drive and start adding new parts like tonearms, cartridges, cables, damping, etc. You can spend many thousands tweaking away to your hearts content. Of course, the end result may sound no better than a new Rega P3 or P5, Music Hall MM-7, Thorens 8oo series or any of the other mid price decks available. If you're just getting started in vinyl, I would strongly recommend what the others have said and get a new table that is properly set up by a reputable local dealer. If you buy mail order, it will most likely have to be set up again when you receive it. Remember, the cartridge is more important than the turntable, belt drives usually sound better than direct drive, and keeping the vinyl and stylus clean is the most important of all.

Serendipity

skipf wrote: »

Then get an old AR, Garrard or Thorens belt drive and start adding new parts like tonearms, cartridges, cables, damping, etc. You can spend many thousands tweaking away to your hearts content. Of course, the end result may sound no better than a new Rega P3 or P5, Music Hall MM-7, Thorens 8oo series or any of the other mid price decks available. If you're just getting started in vinyl, I would strongly recommend what the others have said and get a new table that is properly set up by a reputable local dealer. If you buy mail order, it will most likely have to be set up again when you receive it. Remember, the cartridge is more important than the turntable, belt drives usually sound better than direct drive, and keeping the vinyl and stylus clean is the most important of all.

Well, older stereo gear shouldn't be that hard to tweak/fix, right? For example, I have an old JVC HR-S7000U VCR from the 80's and all the mechanical parts like belts can be EASILY replaced. Same thing with an old Adcom GFA-535 I had...very simple design and easy to repair.

treitz3

appadv, try taking a look at the Vinyl Engine forum. Vast majority of the information that you are requesting is already there.

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/index.php

Try it, you might just find some golden information there. I hope that this helps. Ditto Skip on keeping the LP's and stylus clean. I'm sure that you have seen the thread here about steam cleaning records..... http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59579 . The "Mr. Magic" cleaning pads work great for keeping the stylus clean on a playback basis.

I wish that I could tell you a little bit more, but I have only had a Technics DD TT, a Rega P1 and my current player, the Music Hall MMF-5. The other TT's were all used over two decades ago and they were all of the bargain type for back in the day. I can say that a good clamp combined with proper setup can yield some very nice results.

Serendipity

Thanks for the link!

On another note, today I discovered a local record store that literally has 1000's of records in stock! They sell both used and new. What's crazy is that it's within walking distance of my place, and I've literally passed by many times without noticing it.

I guess there are still people interested in vinyl!

treitz3

You could say that.

Serendipity

treitz3 wrote: »

You could say that.

Haha

One thing I noticed was that business must've been doing very well for this place because rent in NY isn't cheap and they must be sellling a lot of records to stay in business for 30+ years...

stuwee

appadv wrote: »

But I am a tweaker...

appadv, then by all means go for one of the good ol' TT's mentioned, I'm baised towards the Thorens line, I bought mine and only knew it was a great TT/arm combo. I've been tweaking it for the last 30+ years, still the heart of my many, many main rigs. If you go slow and, think about what the purpose of the parts are, it all makes sense, like reading German, if you take it apart and read slowly you can make out what they're sayin', make sense??

Craig

Serendipity

I'll have to check out a few of the turntables you guys mentioned, along with picking up some vinyl.

Thanks for all your help guys!

Serendipity

Woo hoo!

My grandma says I can have whatever records I can find. Looks like I'll be going over to pick up the records soon!

What have I just gotten myself into?

stuwee

appadv wrote: »

I'll have to check out a few of the turntables you guys mentioned, along with picking up some vinyl.

Thanks for all your help guys!

No dude, you're gonna need help from a therepist, your lookin' for places for more LP's right? :eek: wait till you hear vinyl again over your system now, hide your wallet:D:p,

stuwster

Serendipity

stuwee wrote: »

hide your wallet:D:p,

stuwster

Vinyl collecting is addicting, to say the very least. But I'm on a college student budget, so I won't be doing much collecting

Serendipity

stuwee wrote: »

wait till you hear vinyl again over your system

I don't even have a turntable yet!

This forum is a bad influence

stuwee

appadv wrote: »

I don't even have a turntable yet!

This forum is a bad influence

make sure to listen to "Frankie Goes To Hollywood" 'Welcome to the Pleasure dome' on LP, at the very end is the most evil laugh, it fits your new situation perfectly, just don't 'Relax' Frankie say Dance & Bang, what a bunch of enablers here on CP...eh?? :D
The trusty old Thorens, spinin' for me for 30+ years
Just what's in heavy rotation in the main room, out of many 1,000's

Craig

RutgersFTW

I've spent a lot of time and money fiddling with various garage sale turntables with which to play garage sale records. My current daily turntable, a Dual 1229, plays 33, 45, and 78 rpm records. I've also fiddled with A TON of 1980s direct drive models from Japan (Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood, etc) and though they're nothing fancy they will do in a pinch. These are what you will find, and they are fun. I hear the myths of people picking up mint Thorens TTs at Goodwill, but I don't let them get me down.

If you're just getting into vinyl, don't spend too much on a table. They are everywhere - if you're in NYC, just head to an outer borough or New Jersey on a Sunday and cruise some yard sales - you'll find one. Probably not a very nice one, but if it doesn't cost more than $20, jump in. As for a cartridge, I wouldn't go any higher than a Shure M97xe for an intro cartridge if it has a 1/2" mount. It tracks great and provides a warm, soothing sound. I prefer Audio-Technica's budget carts (particularly the AT95E and AT110E, though the 92s with the universal mount kit are a good buy too). AT makes better P-mount carts too, which are handy for the gobs of 1980s direct drive Japanese tables you're going to find at garage sales. If you pick up a table and it looks ****, I wouldn't trust the stylus. Just toss it and pop in a new cart.

Then comes time to balance the tonearm, align the cartridge, adjust VTA, get a stylus force gauge and make sure your tracking force is right, and a million other tweaks to keep you busy. Don't even get me started about cleaning strategies (Mr. Clean Magic Eraser is one of the few reliable internet tips).

Above all else, have fun and don't spend too much money. Save it for all the great records you'll discover!

Serendipity

Thanks,

I was just in a record store today flipping through TONS of vinyl and I can see how addicting this can be! I know I'm going to discover lots of great records, you just have to know where to look

Also thanks for the suggestion on a turntable, but I don't buy used. Sorry.