Someone tell me about Icepower amps

mhartman29

What's the deal with them? I get the run cool and provide a lot of power in a small chassis, but do they sound good? Do they fall into the class AB, H, etc category of amps? Anyone care to clue me in?

Thanks!

SolidSqual

They are class D. I've owned several. People in this forum are generally not big fans, but then again they are mostly old farts. I love mine. The best bang for the buck IMO is Wyred4Sound, ICEH2O is also said to be good. I've owned the Bel Canto S300 and PS Audio counterpart as well. The Bel Canto and the PS Audio sound fairly similar. Nuforce is another brand but seems to have reliability issues despite good sound. The Wyred4Sound is a good as the Red Dragon Leviathans in my opinion. H2O, Red Dragon and Wyred4Sound all modify the standard ICE modules of B&O. These are the heavy hitters if you really want some good sound.

Sherardp

They sound freaking awesome, check out D-Sonic as well. Very nice sound, I noticed an improvement over midbass/bass when I put the Magnum 1000S on the Rti12s. Besides 525 wpc seemed too good to be true for the price paid. The D-Sonic stuff is built like a tank, in a nice solid black chasis. Solid mentioned a few nice brands also, the Red Dragons are very nice also.

Gaara

mhartman29 wrote: »

What's the deal with them? I get the run cool and provide a lot of power in a small chassis, but do they sound good? Do they fall into the class AB, H, etc category of amps? Anyone care to clue me in?

Thanks!

IMO you get a lot for your money, but there are different flavors. You can get icepower modules in 100wpc/250wpc/500wpc variants. They all have similar sonics with very strong tight bass, liquidy mids, and slightly recessed treble. All the ones I have tried run cool to the touch, and slightly warm under heavy loads. They are very small weight wise and size wise. My current amps output 500wpc and side by side are 16x12x3 and only 14lbs for the pair.

Some icepower amps come with the smps built in, and with those there isn't much to do. The ASP amps have the smps built in, a company buys the modules and adds connectors, wiring, and a case. That is why many different brands that use icepower sound very similar.

There are some that do not come with the smps built in. With these some brands will build basic power supplies like Murano, others will go the overbuilt route like H20.

There are also newer versions of these amps for multi-channel use. I know Rotel uses a custom 5ch icepower amp in their RMB-1085. Not sure about other brands, most like Wyred and D-Sonic just use multiple monos in one chassis.

I personally have tried a variety of icepower amps and settled on EVS 500Ms. They are no longer made but use the most powerful modules (500wpc) with the smps built in. They are similar in regard to the Red Dragon Leviathains or Bel Canto Ref 1000s...except 1/2 the price.

Brands include Wyred4Sound/D-Sonic (same company), Bel Canto, Red Dragon, Murano, NHT, H20, Acoustic Reality, Jeff Roland, JJAZ, Rotel, and recently Seymour (very nice).

Gaara

SolidSqual wrote: »

They are class D. I've owned several. People in this forum are generally not big fans, but then again they are mostly old farts. I love mine. The best bang for the buck IMO is Wyred4Sound, ICEH2O is also said to be good. I've owned the Bel Canto S300 and PS Audio counterpart as well. The Bel Canto and the PS Audio sound fairly similar. Nuforce is another brand but seems to have reliability issues despite good sound. The Wyred4Sound is a good as the Red Dragon Leviathans in my opinion. H2O, Red Dragon and Wyred4Sound all modify the standard ICE modules of B&O. These are the heavy hitters if you really want some good sound.

Have you tried both Wyred4Sound and the Leviathans? I would be curious to hear more info on how the two compare. I don't believe that Wyred4Sound or H20 mods their amps. Modding them voids the warranty, and the only one I know that does still is Red Dragon.

Nuforce isn't icepower, they have their own proprietary technology.

SolidSqual

Gaara wrote: »

Have you tried both Wyred4Sound and the Leviathans? I would be curious to hear more info on how the two compare. I don't believe that Wyred4Sound or H20 mods their amps. Modding them voids the warranty, and the only one I know that does still is Red Dragon.

Nuforce isn't icepower, they have their own proprietary technology.

I know for a fact that Wyred mods their amps. I've witnessed the difference on the boards. They are aiming to compete with the likes of Red Dragon and that's the only way they can do it.

You can call up Cullen Circuits, the maker of Wyred or even Walter at Underwood HiFi. They'll let you know some of the nonproprietary changes.

I have tried both the Wyred and Leviathans albeit not side by side. They sound exactly the same. Both had the 500W @ 8ohm modules. The Red Dragons were better looking but cost twixe as much. Worth the good lucks? No . . .

That being said, the 500 modules in general sound better than all the others. Once I get some time, I'm ordering a permanent pair.

Sherardp

Just when I thought the Red Dragons were the shiznit. They look freaking awesome, glad I went D-Sonic and saved the clams.

SolidSqual

Sheradp the Red Dragons are the Shizzy, but only if you don't need to save your money for other audio goodies.

SlowcarIX

mhartman29 wrote: »

What's the deal with them? I get the run cool and provide a lot of power in a small chassis, but do they sound good? Do they fall into the class AB, H, etc category of amps? Anyone care to clue me in?

Thanks!

they sound good, very neutral. great value for $ and energy efficient, mine stays on 24/7.

i got the d-sonic 2500-7 with 3 1000ASP modules and 4 500ASP modules in it

Gaara

SolidSqual wrote: »

I know for a fact that Wyred mods their amps. I've witnessed the difference on the boards. They are aiming to compete with the likes of Red Dragon and that's the only way they can do it.

You can call up Cullen Circuits, the maker of Wyred or even Walter at Underwood HiFi. They'll let you know some of the nonproprietary changes.

I have tried both the Wyred and Leviathans albeit not side by side. They sound exactly the same. Both had the 500W @ 8ohm modules. The Red Dragons were better looking but cost twixe as much. Worth the good lucks? No . . .

That being said, the 500 modules in general sound better than all the others. Once I get some time, I'm ordering a permanent pair.

So actual mods not like the Bel Canto "mods". I wasn't aware anyone else was doing anything like that, I know Wyred likes to advertise their FET input stage but didn't realize they were doing anything special to the units. Have any links to the info, or should I just email them?

As for the 500 modules, aka 1000asp, yeah they are the shizzy. Best amps I have ever heard with my Gallos, run cold, small footprint, and use very little power. What more could you ask for.

Slow, I am always jealous when I see that pic. That's a amazing amp right there. I have a NHT Power5 on its way which uses 2 of the 500asp amps and 3 500as, I am a little pumped. Soon I will be completly icepower in my ht.

SlowcarIX

so far, the drive all the 7 speakers w/o breaking a sweat...

i'm thinking of upgrading the mains to 2 pairs of eminent tech lft8, will see if each L/R 1000ASP will handle 2 lft8 in parallel.

SolidSqual

I would email the guys at Cullen Circuits. They can give you the low down on the Wyred amps and some of the mods they perform.

mhartman29

Thanks for the info. Would a power 5 be worth the extra scratch over the xpa-5? What kind of difference might there be between the two sound quality wise? Obviously, the size and weight of the amp itself would be quite different.

SlowcarIX

SolidSqual wrote: »

I would email the guys at Cullen Circuits. They can give you the low down on the Wyred amps and some of the mods they perform.

who is cullen circuits?

i think the question should be directed to B&O regarding mods to the icepower modules
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/company/contacts/

SlowcarIX

mhartman29 wrote: »

Thanks for the info. Would a power 5 be worth the extra scratch over the xpa-5? What kind of difference might there be between the two sound quality wise? Obviously, the size and weight of the amp itself would be quite different.

bring your xpa-5 over, we'll do a A/B emo/d-sonic

Gaara

Solid, will do.

Mhartman, not a clue, haven't tried either but a Power5 will be arriving in mi casa Friday.

Slow, Cullen made your amp. Last I checked they owned Wyred4Sound and Mfg. for D-Sonic. If I recall correctly the main guy used to work at PS Audio, so they do lots of mods to their gear, on top of manufacturing.

mhartman29

Slow, I have the lpa-1 right now. But, I'm thinking about selling it and upgrading to the xpa-5. If I don't sell it in the next week (I have a few potential buyers right now) I might just do that. Would be a fun a/b test!

SlowcarIX

Gaara wrote: »

Solid, will do.

Mhartman, not a clue, haven't tried either but a Power5 will be arriving in mi casa Friday.

Slow, Cullen made your amp. Last I checked they owned Wyred4Sound and Mfg. for D-Sonic. If I recall correctly the main guy used to work at PS Audio, so they do lots of mods to their gear, on top of manufacturing.

cullens assembled/stuffed the icepower modules into a metal box...:)

i believe cullens used to assemble the amps for d-sonic...;)

SlowcarIX

mhartman29 wrote: »

Slow, I have the lpa-1 right now. But, I'm thinking about selling it and upgrading to the xpa-5. If I don't sell it in the next week (I have a few potential buyers right now) I might just do that. Would be a fun a/b test!

lets do it.

SolidSqual

SlowcarIX wrote: »

cullens assembled/stuffed the icepower modules into a metal box...:)

i believe cullens used to assemble the amps for d-sonic...;)

They used to assemble amps for PS Audio. Now they make their own as PS Audio moved production overseas.

They also make killer amps for Genesis and Ampzilla. "Stuffing" them into a metal box is not the correct term. Do some research they add way more quality parts and design than D-Sonic.

Gaara

Slow, does D-Sonic do their own assembly now? Didn't realize you were familiar with Cullen, I wouldn't think B&O would know/want to provide the mods that they are performing.

I shot of a email to Wyred to figure it out. Did some digging and found some info, mostly about their input buffer and use of high quality wire and connectors. Found "We bypass critical input coupling caps to allow audio to freely flow through while still allowing for DC protection, and “beef-up” the servo (feedback) circuit for enhanced bottom-end extension." in regards to the mods. Not sure what else is done but that's all I can find.

SlowcarIX

the d-sonic amps are now assembled in a ISO certified facility here in Tx.

for a 7ch 3x1000ASP + 4x500ASP amp
wyred - $4295
d-sonic - $2975

i would like to do a A/B wyred/d-sonic to see what the extra ~$1300 buys

SlowcarIX

SolidSqual wrote: »

They used to assemble amps for PS Audio. Now they make their own as PS Audio moved production overseas.

They also make killer amps for Genesis and Ampzilla. "Stuffing" them into a metal box is not the correct term. Do some research they add way more quality parts and design than D-Sonic.

i'm not impressed w/ cullen's workmanship AT ALL - my 7ch amp came to me from cullens with 1 dented capacitor, cracked plastic insulation sleeve and bent electrical connection prongs.

SolidSqual

SlowcarIX wrote: »

i'm not impressed w/ cullen's workmanship AT ALL - my 7ch amp came to me from cullens with 1 dented capacitor, cracked plastic insulation sleeve and bent electrical connection prongs.

Hey Slow,

Can you elaborate on this fact? I am looking to buy some new Wyred amps. If you got some good infromation about their customer service and quality then I would really like to know. What happened to the amp? What did they say and do about the damage?

Thanks,

Mike

Sherardp

For one they need to double box the stuff when they ship. Mine arrived from D-sonic with a bent speaker connection, though it was minor, I noticed it off jump. Packing material wasnt of the greatest so make sure you be specific and tell Dennis(D-Sonic) that you want your order double boxed. I was able to fix the speaker terminal on my own, however I know not every customer wants to deal with doing so.

cfrizz

That's enough info for me right there to NOT become one of thier customers. If they don't care enough to package it well enough to arrive safely, I wonder what else they don't care about.

JoeLR

I was thinking of trying a 2-channel stereo amp from Wyred 4 Sound. I had a short email exchange the other day w/ EJ from W4S, & he says their stereo amps should be shipping next week. I'm kinda on the fence though due to all the conflicting things I've read about Class D amps in general (Re: sound quality). That, and I just don't feel like buying, auditioning in home, return shipping & waiting for refund. Ugh... I love the price of these, but looks like I'll go the traditional Class A/B route for a little more coin.... My new Monitor Audio GS60's need real power instead of the Cambridge Audio Azur receiver I have right now...

Gaara

You got him to email you back, that is impressive. I emailed them about the mods they do...no response in 3 days. I emailed them a while back when I was interested in a 4x100 amp from them...again no email back.

Oh well, after reading the Power5 and D-Sonic v. Wyred threads on AVS I was left with a bad taste in my mouth with Wyred4Sound. They seem to make a great product though, but I won't ever own one.

SlowcarIX

here an article about the D-Sonic amps

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0508/aachapter103.htm

SlowcarIX

SolidSqual wrote: »

Hey Slow,

Can you elaborate on this fact? I am looking to buy some new Wyred amps. If you got some good infromation about their customer service and quality then I would really like to know. What happened to the amp? What did they say and do about the damage?

Thanks,

Mike

my d-sonic 2500-7 arrived from cullen with
- a big ding on one of the big capacitors on the 1000ASP module
- one of the electrical connector on the interior back panel was barely plugged on and the prongs were bent to almost 45 degrees
- the plastic insulation sleve on the crimped connectors for the main fuse is cracked

Dennis@d-sonic sent out a replacement 1000ASP module to me. here is the pic of it

I unbent the prongs and pushed the connector back
Cracked plastic insulation sleeve...its still there

JoeLR

Gaara wrote: »

You got him to email you back, that is impressive. I emailed them about the mods they do...no response in 3 days. I emailed them a while back when I was interested in a 4x100 amp from them...again no email back.

Oh well, after reading the Power5 and D-Sonic v. Wyred threads on AVS I was left with a bad taste in my mouth with Wyred4Sound. They seem to make a great product though, but I won't ever own one.

I filled out their web form for contacting them. I wonder if his email spam filter blocked your initial email (assuming you didn't use the web form to initiate communication). He always responded w/in a couple hours...shrug.