Just bought a Apple Powerbook - I'm taking the digital plunge.
SolidSqual
Posts: 5,218
So I just bought an Apple Powerbook after my Dell died on me for the 5th time. Vista is a crap OS and the devourer of everything silicon.
So . . . now that I got this excellent new silver beaut', I've started burning all my music to lossless. I can't really tell the difference between FLAC and Apple Lossless. Can anybody? That being said, I'm only listening through my headphones from the jack on my computer.
So what DAC should I get? Do the USB Dacs such as the Benchmark or PS Audio suffer from any noise anomalies? Any other recommendations out there for a good DAC? Is there any other way to run digital from this computer to a DAC and then to my whole system?
As a side note, if anyone here has an Apple, I highly recommend getting a remote for the system. The remote (about the size of the original iPod nano) brings up its own menu system that allows you to conveniently scroll through all your iTunes music from a distance with ease!!!! I love it.
So . . . now that I got this excellent new silver beaut', I've started burning all my music to lossless. I can't really tell the difference between FLAC and Apple Lossless. Can anybody? That being said, I'm only listening through my headphones from the jack on my computer.
So what DAC should I get? Do the USB Dacs such as the Benchmark or PS Audio suffer from any noise anomalies? Any other recommendations out there for a good DAC? Is there any other way to run digital from this computer to a DAC and then to my whole system?
As a side note, if anyone here has an Apple, I highly recommend getting a remote for the system. The remote (about the size of the original iPod nano) brings up its own menu system that allows you to conveniently scroll through all your iTunes music from a distance with ease!!!! I love it.
Post edited by SolidSqual on
Comments
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As a PC audio user, my advice is to make sure you are getting a bit-perfect signal from the digital out. This is the single thing that can drive computer audio users nuts. It is the one thing that has the greatest effect. If the signal is getting modified or resampled in *any* way on it's way to the DAC you are going to have to make sure to turn off whatever is doing it.
There is software that can upsample and other things, but you need to start bit-perfect before you begin move down the tweaking chain.
One more thing... don't use iTunes... ever, to play your music. If you want to get serious (and the technology is here... computer audio can match conventional digital), you need to get serious playback software. I am sure there is something similar to Foobar2000 or Winamp for the MAC, I am not sure what it would be, but iTunes is kindof something that is universally avoided by serious computer audio enthusiasts for more reasons than just sound quality. -
Flac and Apple Lossless are both lossless audio formats, meaning ALL of the original information is contained in them, so they should sound IDENTICAL.If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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Congrats on the Apple Mike. I have put off purchasing an Apple for years and I will be due for a new computer in about a year. Maybe 2009 will be the year to dump my Dell as well. Enjoy.Michael
In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
NORTH of 60° -
bobman1235 wrote: »Flac and Apple Lossless are both lossless audio formats, meaning ALL of the original information is contained in them, so they should sound IDENTICAL.
So then your saying a digital format should sound identical on any machine its played one?
Interesting concept.
RT1 -
Vista works great for me, good luck with your Apple
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reeltrouble1 wrote: »So then your saying a digital format should sound identical on any machine its played one?
No no, just that the data in a lossless format is ALL there, not altered like with MP3 or AAC. The machine that plays it can do God knows what with it, just like a CD player or anything else.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
Some software links here: http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html
Any Linux player should work fine with the Mac OS (it's a *nix clone). -
Flac and Apple Lossless are both lossless audio formats, meaning ALL of the original information is contained in them, so they should sound IDENTICAL.
This does not mean you are getting a bit-perfect output!
This is something that is misunderstood a LOT. The only way to truly tell, to be honest, is to get the 5.1 channel DTS signal and pass it through a digital processor and see if you get a lock. If you do, you can be assured you are bit-perfect, but most certainly not jitter free.
If you are going to use the digital output on the computer itself, I would highly suggest a DIP, basically a reclocker/jitter reducer. This would also serve as electrical isolation if you are not using toslink.
Just, like I said, be aware that many many sound chipsets will resample internally, as well as, mix in the other "channels" before output (line in, mic, and so on).
I say iTunes is what you want to avoid because there are ways around some of these issues if they do crop up, and iTunes does not support them. Those lossless files may indeed contain bit-perfect data, however, that doesn't mean you are going to get it from the s/pdif out. You just have to try it and see. I do know that one of the best ways around this is to get a USB DAC, this way, jitter is almost a non-issue, and with the right software, so can the other problems be. You can then play with some of the more advanced features that computer audio allows in a controlled setting. -
Man all this crap is just too much work. I'm just gonna stick with my CDP and maybe DAC. The technology is just not there yet. I need something a little more plug and play otherwise I fear I'm gonna be spending a lot of money for not a lot of return.
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Is it a MacBook or MacBook Pro, or is it an older Powerbook? The Intel MacBooks have mini-toslink out for hooking it up to a DAC. I have my MacBook hooked to my AVR via TOSLINK as well as my Mac Pro to my other receiver, even though I typically use my Digi Rack for audio on my desktop.// Panasonic AE8000 // Pioneer SC-57 // Polk Audio RTi A9 // Polk Audio CSiA6 //
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Unless there's something major wrong about the sound card drivers, you'll be fine with digital output to a preamp.
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SolidSqual wrote: »Man all this crap is just too much work. I'm just gonna stick with my CDP and maybe DAC. The technology is just not there yet. I need something a little more plug and play otherwise I fear I'm gonna be spending a lot of money for not a lot of return.
Cough cough Squeezebox cough
P.S. Look around and see if there is a way to optimize your Apple for sound. I know with windows there are a lot of things to be done to get bit-perfect output, and it makes a big difference. Maybe here. -
Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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Is it a MacBook or MacBook Pro, or is it an older Powerbook? The Intel MacBooks have mini-toslink out for hooking it up to a DAC. I have my MacBook hooked to my AVR via TOSLINK as well as my Mac Pro to my other receiver, even though I typically use my Digi Rack for audio on my desktop.
I have a brand new powerbook, you know the silver laptops they make. -
Cough, cough, what he said, cough
I may have to start considering this again. I just don't like the idea of streaming through the air. Do you ever have interference? -
SolidSqual wrote: »I may have to start considering this again. I just don't like the idea of streaming through the air. Do you ever have interference?
I had signal drop outs because my router is too far away, and I live in a 90 year old house that probably has layers and layers of lead paint and thick plaster walls. I'm now wired right to the desktop and all is good. some day I will move the router closer, or just stay wired so I don't have to worry about it.
and just for clarification I only had drop outs when the wireless signal strength dropped below like 30%. Most of the time my signal hovered around 50% and never had any issues at that signal strength.
I've also got a pretty crappy router, so that could have something to do with it too...Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15 -
SolidSqual wrote: »I may have to start considering this again. I just don't like the idea of streaming through the air. Do you ever have interference?
If you mean interference like tryrrthg refers to it than no. I have the router on the south end of the house 1st floor. I have a SB3 upstairs south end and get 85-90% strength. I had another in the basement in the North end of the house and got 70-75%.
As for noise, nope silent. My USB Dac generates much more noise then my Squeezebox, I have tried them side by side. Using the internal sound card was the worst in terms of noise, and optical out was almost as bad. -
Cough cough Squeezebox cough
Why not PS3 instead? Both have their advantages and disadvantages:
Squeezebox:
No need to turn on your display
Plays lossless formats (although PS3 does play WAV's so it's only a matter of space)
PS3:
Plays music AND videos
Plays games
Plays BluRay
Has a browser (f.e. YouTube viewing) -
Why not PS3 instead? Both have their advantages and disadvantages:
Squeezebox:
No need to turn on your display
Plays lossless formats (although PS3 does play WAV's so it's only a matter of space)
PS3:
Plays music AND videos
Plays games
Plays BluRay
Has a browser (f.e. YouTube viewing)
For the same reason I don't want a squeezebox. There's too much upgrading to power supplies and connections to bring the units up to snuff with other hifi gear such as a good cdp. The power supplies alone cost $400 bucks and could make or break your system.
I want an integrated solution. -
Well, I was merely commenting on the Squeezebox suggestion, IMHO PS3 is a better value if you want a media box. If you don't, then it's out.
$400 for power supply? What power supply, for what? -
There is no way in hell I would pay $400 for an upgraded power supply for the squeezebox. Expecially if you plan on using an outboard DAC. From what I've read there is no need for a heavy duty power supply if you're just using the digital out. A simple linear power supply ($20, maybe) is supposed to be fine.
of course I don't do much critical listening anymore, so who knows. I think the squeezebox is fantastic. it sounds pretty damn good and it's so convenient.Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15 -
If you read through my past posts on SB3's (or my F/S adds) you will see I have extensive experience with these things. I have tried various PSUs including the bolder modded WM075, WM220, Bolder Rev 1 PSU, sigma11 psu, and stock psu.
Long story short there was a small improvement when using a DAC with the upgraded power supply but I couldn't hear any difference between the upgrades. That said IMO spending more then $100 on a PSU for a SB3 that will be used with a DAC is a waste. You should be able to use a basic regulated on like tryrrthg mentions. Total outlay should be ~$250, or if you want a modded WM075 ~$300. -
Gaara can you point me to what I need on the Bolder website? All I need is a good digital output to my DAC. I'll give it a try.
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Why not just buy a stock squeezebox and see if it is to your liking before spending a bunch of money on a power supply that you will never be able to sell for as much as you paid for it (unless you're lucky to find one used).Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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SolidSqual wrote: »Gaara can you point me to what I need on the Bolder website? All I need is a good digital output to my DAC. I'll give it a try.
Check your PM.
The bolder WM075 info can be found here. If you are patient these usually sell for ~$75 used, sometimes cheaper. You could buy a new SB3 for $299 shipped from Logitech, or buy a used one like the one on Agon for $220.
There are other PSUs which work fine usually for $20-$40 but I can't think of any specifics off the top of my head. Check Audiocircle and AudioAsylum, I know they mention them there and I think Head-Fi to. -
Now this is the shiznit.
Thanks Gaara,
I'll get back to you in a bit. -
I'm confused, what do you need a DAC for? am I missing something? Please explain.
I just plug my ancient (9+ years old) powerbook into auxillary inputs (I normallly use analog+s-vid or occasionally optical connection..).
I have no complaints at all with using iTunes for the interface (just need to turn off equalization, sound check, and Sound enhancer so your reciever can do it's stuff without pre-processing).
expect to purchase a new Pbook Pro this year. Planning on erasing all but music & vids on my old one let it become my music server until (if ever*) it dies.
*my Apple Quad950 circa 1990 still works - tho the floppies dead)LR Setup:
Polk RTi10's, RTi6's, CSiA6 (5 ch setup)
Onkyo 705 & Denon 3808ci Receiver, Onk 875
Parasound 2250 Amp
Sony 26" KDL series Bravia LCD
Panny DMR-EH75 Recorder
Panny DVD-F87 (5 disk DVD player)
NAD T585 (DVD/SACD)
Yamaha DVD-C961 (5 disk SACD/DVD)
SciAnt Explorer 8500HD Cable Box
Orig & 5Gen iPods, , Wii
Plans/Fantasies:
400 disk player that handles ALL formats, sounds as good as NAD with Panasonic interface & compatability. -
I'm confused, what do you need a DAC for? am I missing something? Please explain.
I just plug my ancient (9+ years old) powerbook into auxillary inputs (I normallly use analog+s-vid or occasionally optical connection..).
I have no complaints at all with using iTunes for the interface (just need to turn off equalization, sound check, and Sound enhancer so your reciever can do it's stuff without pre-processing).
expect to purchase a new Pbook Pro this year. Planning on erasing all but music & vids on my old one let it become my music server until (if ever*) it dies.
*my Apple Quad950 circa 1990 still works - tho the floppies dead)
For sound quality. The same reason people have external amps when receivers can power speakers.
Solid, Dan does nice stuff, supposed to be quite good and it better be for $4k.
