Confused: Benchmark DAC1 vs Onkyo 805

fatchowmein

The Benchmark DAC1 USB is a 2 channel 24 bit 192kHz DAC. Price: $1275 with USB or $975 without.

The Onkyo is a 7.1 channel av receiver with a Burr Brown PCM 1796 DAC that's also 24 bit 192 kHz (per channel like the Integra DTR-7.8???) with the additional ability to decode DSD to Analog via HDMI. Price: $650 (Amazon.com).

Wouldn't it make more sense for folks to purchase the receiver than to just buy a DAC? Wouldn't the receiver with 3 optical and 1 co-axial input bring all your media players up to the next level (compared to the DAC1's 1 coax, 1 XLR, 1 optical, 1 usb)?

Did I miss something? Does the DAC1 have other advantages that I've overlooked other than balanced analog, a very good headphone output, and the ease and flexibility to move it around and test components?

Aren't all the newer receivers capable of DolbyHD and DTS-HD using much better DAC's than in the past?

Just curious. I'd like to hear from 805 owners if they think the Burr Brown improved their CD playback. I'd also like to hear back from Benchmark owners.

Many Thx

steveinaz

Go to Benchmark Media's website and read through the reviews and technical data on the DAC1 and USB. There's alot more to DAC's than just the chips used. Topology, implementation, final analog output stage, power supply, etc.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Too many people have been watching the Italian Job...

Ladies and gentlemen, the Burr Brown chips by TI are not the best chips in the world. They're good chips, sure, but by no means the best.

I don't know what's in the benchmark, as I don't own one, but even a mid-line DAC is going to be better than all but the best equipment out there. I'm sure the 805 is a fine receiver, but it's not going to compete with a standalone DAC the likes of the benchmark.

billbillw

Its not just the actual DAC chip. Its the analog stage that comes out of the DAC chip, the clock, the digital receiver chip, etc.

They put 'nice' burr brown chips in some of the cheapest DVD players. Do they sound great? Usually not.

I'm sure the biggest advantages to the Benchmark are in the digital receiver, the clock and the analog stage. I have no doubt that it would sound better than using the SR805, especially if used with a good clean 2ch amp.

bikerboy

Most of the new dac chips are now made for the cellphone market. We know the quality sound we hear from a iphone. The only way to compare them is to listen to them.

nspindel

I used to own a DAC1. It's amazing. Simply can't compare to the built-in jobbie's in a $600 7.1 receiver. I had the non-usb version. I'd call it a bargain at $975....

danger boy

DAC chip sets are usually pretty cheap if you've ever priced one out.

John K.

Fat, DAC chips are a mature technology and manufacturers can obtain them in very large quantities for about $1 each, and they'll perform the conversion process without any audible flaws. There are several chip makers which can supply this quality and price and neither the Burr-Brown division of Texas Instruments nor any other maker has any special magic to offer. These can be considered to be a commodity item.

It's certainly correct that other circuitry besides the chip alone is involved, but this is relatively simple technology which has been well-known for many years and the end result of everything is audibly flat frequency response with inaudibly low noise and distortion. Of course claims to the contrary abound, but these are based on uncontrolled listening sessions and no solid evidence exists to lend factual support.

Hopefully we can grasp the fact that we can't apply a silly mantra such as "Just trust your ears" to outweigh the lessons that we learn from studying the technology involved. Facts don't cease to exist when they're ignored.

LuSh

I suspect John doesn't have a local dealer or doesn't wish to explore two channel reproduction to it's fullest and therefore reads technical data found on forums. His data however is flawed as digital 1 & 0's can be measured and the word 'jitter' plays a part among other things.

The analog stages and chiefly the power supply impact the sound more then anything; or so say the digital engineers who continue to try and make an imperfect format perfect. A better digital source can add depth, increase stage width, reinforce audible bass output and lift the plain of both vocal and instruments. I'm afraid I can't comment on the Benchmark specifically (I've listened to it in a Blue Circle Setup for less then 1 hour.) but I can say that I've listened to MANY digital sources both old and new. The best I've heard yet is the Ayon CD-1. Simply incredible.

nm4710

I haven't had the chance to listen to many stand-alone DACs..but I think the prices are highway robbery (although that's pretty common in high end audio). Honestly if the only difference between standalone DACs and receivers/processors is power supply and post DAC-circuitry the receiver manufacturers should be able to easily make a product that can compete...yet they don't. I just don't get it. You can spend $1500 on a receiver...but apparently it won't come close to a standalone DAC.

tonyb

Thats why they call them seperates.A receiver is an all in one option with compromises built in.Now take every piece and individually build the crap out of it....pre amp,amp,dac,processor,tuner,and you will have better quality and sound.Better power supply.....something overlooked on many AVR's.....is key advantage to seperates.Try fitting all of theses in a single box with a massive power supply and you'll get an avr the sive of a VW bug.Not exactly wife friendly is it.Hence the compromises,to a smaller all in one box that can do everything.....enter the AVR,able to leap tall buildings in a single bound....you get what I mean.Some avr's are well built,but will cost in upwards of 3 g's,and still have some compromises.The Benchmark dac is a steal,this highway robbery you talk of,is compared to what?? You think a 1500 hundred dollar receiver should compete with even mid level seperates?Oh well,too early to get into this too deep.Just remember when talking about manufacturers.....ya know they used to make a refridgerator that could last 30 years without adding freon too.Can't sell alot of them if they last too long or don't break down.Get the drift?

steveinaz

There are all kinds of "real" things going on in an external DAC--this isn't a cable debate. To say that simply using the same chip as someone else results in the same sound is not only rediculous, it's clearly an inexperienced view, IMO. It's akin to saying that dropping a Corvette engine in a Yugo will get you the same track times--get real. Power supply quality (noise, or lack of), analog output section quality/topolgy/class/design, and a million other varibles contribute to the overall sound of a DAC.

If John practiced what he preached, he'd have a Hello Kitty $19 CD Player in his system, so right away I have to question the validity of his observations. Nothing personal John, but this is just BAD advice.

nm4710

Tony

Sorry let me clarify. When I said receiver I really meant either receiver or processor. Seems to me Digital to analog conversion should be a top priority for either though.

As for the Benchmark being expensive, it is. DAC chips are cheap and there isn't that much more to the device! It's an issue of supply and demand I guess..but when you consider the technology that goes into other products a DAC seems comparatively pretty simple.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing the merits - I'm planning to get one myself...I'm just saying that it's disappointing I have to resort to it.

steveinaz

nm4710,
It's not the parts exclusively, it's the sum. The R&D and design approach that developes a great product and determines the price. Relatively speaking, the Benchmark DAC is a genuine bargain given it's final specifications, build quality, end result sound quality, and how it compares to products that are far more expensive. Add to this value factor that it also includes an excellent headphone section, and doubles as a preamplifier. Not trying to pet my own ego, but it is an excellent product, I just lucked into it while researching DAC's. I have owned my DAC1 for over 3 years now, and aside from speaker changes, it has had the most significant impact on my system.

Having said that, what good DAC's do is not any one single stand-out audio trick. There's not going to be an immediate "wow" factor. It's the hundreds of very subtle things they do better that bring the whole musical scope into focus. Also, like everything, not all external DAC's are created equal--you pretty much get what you pay for, so don't expect a $300 DAC to outperform a well-respected/reviewed standalone CD player---it just isn't gonna happen IMO. There seems to be tons of "cheap" external DAC's out in the market these days---buyer beware.

fatchowmein

Thanks for all the feedbacks, guys. Anybody with a CD player plugged into the 805's toslink or coaxial want to chime in?

Many thx