Am I headed in the right direction?

ecborgoyn

I'm in the midst of designing a new HT/Music system with 7.1 audio capability. Let's assume a 50-50 split of HT and music. Music genres include classical, baroque, jazz, rock, etc.

The room is about 1300 cubic feet (12x14x8, fairly small).

My speaker 'budget' is $2500-$3000 (I think...).

Speaker selection has been giving me a headache.... Too many options.

I've selected Emotiva XPA-5 amps (two units: for 7 channels, plus a zone B pair).

I've selected an SVS PB13-U Sub.

I need in-wall L/C/R to be placed behind an AT screen, but think that on-wall side and rear surrounds would work better given my wall construction and configuration. The side/rear walls are all 2x4 framing, but one side is against a concrete block wall and the other side is toward an interior wall. Since in-wall's tend to be a compromise anyway, I think that using on-wall surrounds would be a better solution. I also think that on-wall dipoles can create more dispersion than in-wall dipoles.

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anyway..... my current thoughts are:
LC265i's - left/right
LCi-C - center
LSiFX's - side surround left/right (or maybe just FXiA6's....)
FXiA6's - rear surround left/right

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Does this seem reasonable? My largest doubt is on the surrounds. Is this overkill? Should I just use four FXiA6's? The LSiFX's might kill my budget anyway, and I'll need to down-grade. (I'm still researching suppliers/prices)

FWIW - My one and only row of seating will be about three feet from the rear wall.

I'm just looking for some thoughts and validation of my design.

Thanks.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk Ecborgoyn!

Well you are certainly going to have one rocking system. There is NO such thing as overkill. You obviously know that you need lots of power for your LSI's with your purchase of 2 Emo XPA 5's!!!

The FXI's won't match the rest of your system, so just get 1 pair of LSIFX's for right now & get a second pair later when you have replenished your funds.

What are you going to use for a prepro?

Good job so far!

dkg999

For that mix, and assuming from the little I know about the Emotiva amps that they do a good job pushing LSi's, I would recommend the LSiFX's for the sides, and potentially a pair of LSi7 for the rears. If you could swing it, LSiFX's for sides and rear, but I run LSi7's in the rear and they work great.

ecborgoyn

cfrizz wrote: »

What are you going to use for a prepro?

Probably an OnkyoPro PR-SC885P

Thanks for ideas/information.

hockeyboy

That is a pretty nice controller but you are going to need to pair it with an amp with ample power which is a whole other discussion.

IMO your room is too small to benefit from a 7 channel system. Make it a 5 channel system and change up your decision on sub with the money you save on dropping those two FXi's that don't match anyway. That PB13 is real nice, but if you are going to have a 7 channel amp with a 5 channel system you can get a pair of passive subs which will rock your world and save you $500 in the process. Take the $500 you save and put it toward a nice 7 channel amp to pair with your Onk controller. This pair of subs will blow away a single PB-13 I would guess. These are the passive subs I have.

http://svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-csplus2.cfm

Face

I agree, I have a 11x16 room and I found it too small for 7.1 also, I went back to 5.1.

ecborgoyn

Thanks for the helpful insight... I should probably save some money, install 5.1 for now, and see how I like it. I tend to get carried away with the details, and should install the basics and upgrade later... Given my room layout, adding rear surrounds later would be fairly easy. Thanks for the 'reality check'.

hockeyboy

Just remember that if you go passive subs they will need one amp channel each since they do not plug into the wall.

amulford

I disagree, I don't see anything wrong with his having a 7.1 (although I think 7.2 would be better, I could go 9.3 but I digress). If you set it up properly, that is. More and more movies are coming out with 6.1 soundtracks. As long as he isn't planning to sit against the back wall...

I do have to say the dimensions are not quite ideal, but how many of us have to work with what we have? I am.

How do you plan on utilizing your space? I mean more like how do you plan to set up your seating???

Going 5 channel to start off is a good idea. But don't think you can't do more, you can. It is your space, and we just have opinions.

Ron Temple

hockeyboy wrote: »

This pair of subs will blow away a single PB-13 I would guess. These are the passive subs I have.

http://svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-csplus2.cfm

Since I came from a pair of Plus subs to the Ultra, I'd disagree. Similar output, but not close in SQ if you're of a musical bent. Very low THD with negligilbe ringing or overhang is the difference. Until you hear them side by side, dual Pluses are awesome.

ecborgoyn

Thanks for all of the helpful and interesting information.

I totally understand passive vs. amplified sub's..... But based on my limited amount of googling, I found only a handful a 'quality' passive subs. Several were 'professional audio' type, some in-wall. There were the SVS passives, but I'd like to place the sub(s) near the screen wall (below the screen) and I'm more-or-less limited to a 24" high unit.

Are there quality, 'box format' passive subs that I should look at? Although I'm still focusing on powered subs. I DO like the passive arrangement better as it keeps the amps (power, controls, heat, etc.) out of the HT room itself and moves them to my rack in an adjacent room.....

My single room of seating is NOT directly against the rear wall, but it is fairly close. I don't have a big room to work with, and I'd like to maximize screen size (hence L/C/R in-wall behind an AT screen). Ear position should be about three feet from the rear wall... So perhaps 5.1 initially, and 7.1 later?

Also, I NEED to engineer my system for both HT and music... And BTW, I do like pipe organ music and the subs WILL be important to my design.....

And yes, I'm an engineer that generally over-designs and needs to start implementing.....

amulford

Well don't hobble yourself with that engineer specific affliction -- paralysis by over analysis

Very good. A few questions first:

1) Do you have a crawlspace or basement?

2) Do you have any kind of DIY skills?

3) What are the materials of construction in the room? (type of floor, ceiling, how many windows and doors, etc.)


Given your seating, I would go with in ceilings for 7.1 or stick with 5.1. You will be too close to the back wall to for wall hanging speakers.

Have you ever investigated infinite baffle subwoofers? With your affinity for pipe organ music, that would be my choice. Couple that with the fact you can maintain a low profile and power it from your rack, well, you get the idea...

I would also seriously consider room treatment. Your room is going to be very unfriendly and you will need to tame it to be able to appreciate it. There are plenty of suppliers for panels and DIY materials. Be sure to put absorption on the rear wall.

Have fun...

Ron Temple

ecborgoyn wrote: »

Thanks for all of the helpful and interesting information.

I totally understand passive vs. amplified sub's..... But based on my limited amount of googling, I found only a handful a 'quality' passive subs. Several were 'professional audio' type, some in-wall. There were the SVS passives, but I'd like to place the sub(s) near the screen wall (below the screen) and I'm more-or-less limited to a 24" high unit.

Are there quality, 'box format' passive subs that I should look at? Although I'm still focusing on powered subs. I DO like the passive arrangement better as it keeps the amps (power, controls, heat, etc.) out of the HT room itself and moves them to my rack in an adjacent room.....

My single room of seating is NOT directly against the rear wall, but it is fairly close. I don't have a big room to work with, and I'd like to maximize screen size (hence L/C/R in-wall behind an AT screen). Ear position should be about three feet from the rear wall... So perhaps 5.1 initially, and 7.1 later?

Also, I NEED to engineer my system for both HT and music... And BTW, I do like pipe organ music and the subs WILL be important to my design.....

And yes, I'm an engineer that generally over-designs and needs to start implementing.....

Reading my last post, it looks confusing. What I'm saying is that the Ultra is the better solution vs. 2 passive CS+s.

However, if you want to explore it, check out the Seaton Submersive. It's a 2' cube dual 15 design with an outboard amp, loaded with eq, that's a couple of kilowatts (I believe). I don't have a link, but I think you can still reach him directly by email at seatonsound@comcast.net.
Mark is a custom subwoofer designer with his own business, but also designs for AV123 and Tweak City Audio among others. His Submersive has gotten "Wow" reviews at all the forums I frequent. It's about $2500 all in and he'll fly in and install it for a fee.

ecborgoyn

amulford wrote: »

Well don't hobble yourself with that engineer specific affliction -- paralysis by over analysis

Very good. A few questions first:

1) Do you have a crawlspace or basement?

2) Do you have any kind of DIY skills?

3) What are the materials of construction in the room? (type of floor, ceiling, how many windows and doors, etc.)


Given your seating, I would go with in ceilings for 7.1 or stick with 5.1. You will be too close to the back wall to for wall hanging speakers.

Have you ever investigated infinite baffle subwoofers? With your affinity for pipe organ music, that would be my choice. Couple that with the fact you can maintain a low profile and power it from your rack, well, you get the idea...

I would also seriously consider room treatment. Your room is going to be very unfriendly and you will need to tame it to be able to appreciate it. There are plenty of suppliers for panels and DIY materials. Be sure to put absorption on the rear wall.

Have fun...

Interesting... No, I've never considered an IB sub. But it looks like 'my kind of project'. I don't have a good drawing/layout of the room handy. The room is in the basement. I did all of the construction except for drywall finishing.... So I have some DIY skills... I framed it as a generic 'Media Room' a few years ago, now I want to outfit it as a dedicated HT room.

I've attached a poor sketch. This sketch shows in-ceiling rear surrounds and in-wall side surrounds, NOT my current design. I've also centered the screen on the wall. The 'equipment niche' in the sketch is NOT my 'rack' location. The main rack will be placed in a adjacent room behind the rear wall. This niche in the room is a set of recessed shelves. A few electronics items like my pre/pro and game console will probably on these shelves. The amps, servers, etc. will be in the rack.

The room is entirely below grade, and no windows. The one door is near the front on the right side wall. Floor is concrete slab. Ceiling is conventional floor joists for room above. Screen wall and left side wall are 2x4 framing against concrete block walls. Right side and rear walls are 2x4 framed partition walls. Outside the room to the right is a staircase... But there's a closet under the stairs.... Outside the room to the rear is a bathroom, but also a closet that I might be able to get some part of..... I need to do some additional IB research to see if I can use either of these two spaces effectively.

I'll need to look into acoustical wall treatments....

And yes, I have fun... Designing/fabricating an IB sub might add to the fun, It also might save my some money.

amulford

Designing/fabricating an IB sub might add to the fun, It also might save my some money

Not to mention it will give you appreciable and very respectable frequency response well below anything you will buy commercially.

From what I see you are definitely a candidate. You can also use the cavity space of your flooring system.