Twisty Roads are FUN!

Jstas

Last bikes I rode were a modified Ninja 650 and a Harley hardtail with a stroker Screaming Eagle setup.

I'd just rather have 4 wheels under me. Bikes are fun, I don't doubt that at all. But I can do so much more with a car. My truck will already stop from 60 MPH is just over 90 feet and gets to 60 just under 5 seconds. Will it out run a bike? No. But on most bikes, if you're behind me and I stomp the WHOA! pedal to the floor, I'll be digging probably 75-80% of the bikes on the road out of my tailgate.

That is not the hottest vehicle I've ever driven either. It's just my daily driver.

Jstas

Sami wrote: »

Cost...if you want cheap fun then it's time for a shifter kart.

DING!

I can be into competitive shifter cart racing for about $9 grand if I find a used chassis in good condition. Faster than a bike and they corner like an F1 car. I think that there are only two ways to have more fun out there. Dirt track racing with an Outlaw or Sprint car or World Rally Championship rally racing.

exalted512

Face wrote: »

I can smoke a 650 and was destroyed by a 1100. Haven't run against anything in between.

Depends on the 650 as well. Theres a huge difference between a SV650 and a ZX6(which is actually a 600)

Jstas wrote: »

Last bikes I rode were a modified Ninja 650 and a Harley hardtail with a stroker Screaming Eagle setup.

Kawasaki has made/makes a 650, but not a ninja 650 as far as I recall.

But in the end, its all personal preference...but i love me some bike:)
-Cody

Jstas

exalted512 wrote: »

Depends on the 650 as well. Theres a huge difference between a SV650 and a ZX6(which is actually a 600)


Kawasaki has made/makes a 650, but not a ninja 650 as far as I recall.

But in the end, its all personal preference...but i love me some bike:)
-Cody

I think you are mistaken.

I rode one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ninja_650R

Only the one I rode was red and silver.

TroyD

Uh, not to be a kill joy, however....I'd hate to have been, say, riding a bicycle or in a car going the other way.

I certainly hope that you are never in a situation where it's YOUR kid playing at the end of his driveway or your wife going to the mailbox and some **** teenager is flying down the road and loses control.

Stupid **** is how people get killed. Miliseconds of genius there.

BDT

mule

A production car out performing a production bike is pure fantasy.

But yes a mediocre car driver can usually out perform a mediocre bike rider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di2MvjGQA10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXTeGMFf4Ko&feature=related

a little proper cornering technique..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0ApSAEOark&feature=related

ha! I love it!

Sami

mule wrote: »

A production car out performing a production bike is pure fantasy.

Well, the Gallardo on the links you provided runs h2h with the Ducati 999 on a road course so it's far from fantasy. Granted, mine is modified production car, a lot faster than the Lambo, but there are production cars out there faster than the Gallardo also.

exalted512

Jstas wrote: »

I think you are mistaken.

I rode one of these:


Only the one I rode was red and silver.

ahhh...I completely forgot those bikes were considered ninja's. I was thinking it was the 250, 500, then only the super sport bikes that were considered ninja's. Either way, I can't wait until I graduate so I can pick up a liter bike.
-Cody

shadowofnight

Jstas wrote: »

I rode one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ninja_650R

Only the one I rode was red and silver.

Thats a fantastic comparison because that 650 weighs within 3 pounds of a new R1 ( You couldnt have picked a closer bike ) ........ now...the 650 produces 72 horsepower at the crank....the new R1 produces 185 :eek:

So basically the R1 is that 650 you rode with 113 more horsepower on tap....more then double the horsepower....it is an absolute awesome adrenaline rush when you twist the throttle on the R1...on the 650 you just move forward.

The 650 is just fun to ride.(Actually that Ninja 650 is one of the weakest middleweights around....even the R6...the smaller bro to the R1... which has a smaller motor then that 650 ( R6 is a 600 ) produces 130 horsepower...58 more horsepower with a smaller motor.) ......but the new R1 is an experience with 2.5 x the horsepower on tap with the same weight...and we all love those horses

You know what happens when you take a car and add 2.5x the horsepower....its personality changes a little bit

Jstas

shadowofnight wrote: »

Thats a fantastic comparison because that 650 weighs within 3 pounds of a new R1 ( You couldnt have picked a closer bike ) ........ now...the 650 produces 72 horsepower at the crank....the new R1 produces 185 :eek:

So basically the R1 is that 650 you rode with 113 more horsepower on tap....more then double the horsepower....it is an absolute awesome adrenaline rush when you twist the throttle on the R1...on the 650 you just move forward.

The 650 is just fun to ride.(Actually that Ninja 650 is one of the weakest middleweights around....even the R6...the smaller bro to the R1... which has a smaller motor then that 650 ( R6 is a 600 ) produces 130 horsepower...58 more horsepower with a smaller motor.) ......but the new R1 is an experience with 2.5 x the horsepower on tap with the same weight...and we all love those horses

You know what happens when you take a car and add 2.5x the horsepower....its personality changes a little bit

That's all well and good but I said the 650 was modified. It was probably up around 120 horses. But the bike was easy to ride. I'm not a very experienced rider so I tend to shy away from the big bikes. I'll end up turning myself into a pasty smear.

But I don't like cars with all power and nothing else. There's no balance. My truck is stock. Makes around 450-500 horses at the crank. Goes fast enough so the things I started messing with first were brakes and suspension. It'd be cool and fun to go faster but big power doesn't always bring the results like better brakes and a finer tuned suspension.

Bikes are fun but nothing compares to the torque of a beast of en engine. The truck has a torque curve a freight train would envy. My Mustang would pull your head back and if you didn't have a head rest, it'd try to snap your head clean off your shoulders. Even my Thunderbird had some stones to it. Fully independent suspension in a 4,000 pound car and it'd still pull right out of a turn. It had an insane top end for a big pig with a little V6. Motorcycles just don't do that for me.

mule

Sami wrote: »

Well, the Gallardo on the links you provided runs h2h with the Ducati 999 on a road course so it's far from fantasy. Granted, mine is modified production car, a lot faster than the Lambo, but there are production cars out there faster than the Gallardo also.

yeah I guess if you consider something like this.. http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/articles/record_carrera.asp production, but according to my friend David it was anything but. But then again an R1 is a more competetive bike than a triple 9.

And I know from my experience when you get a 100+k porsche sideways with smoke comming off the rear tires you can't help but think that you really can't afford to crash it and quickly calm yourself right down. Or I should say that I couldn't afford to crash them because they weren't mine.

But really the simple bottom line is that with a bike you can buy one off the showroom floor and with a supply of tires race it up to the professional level in the supersport series and that is not realistic with a car.

Sami

Like said, if you want cheap fun, shifter kart. Cheaper, faster, and much more fun than a bike. Can't afford to crash a car? Hmmm, you can't afford to crash a bike because then it's most likely your life that it is costing you, not only money.

mule

Aren't the shifter kart tires really expensive? I thought I remembered my friend saying you could go through $500 a weekend in tires? I could be wrong though, my memory isn't allways the greatest:)

And when I was a young man and interested in going fast my personal safety wasn't allways at the forefront of my thoughts, but thats actually why I am so conservative now, because I feel like I should quit while I am ahead, what do they say "know when to fold them and know when to walk away":)

exalted512

Are shifter karts road legal? I've never seen one driving around town.
-Cody

Jstas

mule wrote: »

But really the simple bottom line is that with a bike you can buy one off the showroom floor and with a supply of tires race it up to the professional level in the supersport series and that is not realistic with a car.

Not true. Number one, you won't get to a super sport level with a bike off the showroom floor. Racing sanctioning bodies are very restrictive and protective of the people who do get to race. On top of that, the budget is immense even for a motorcycle team. It's not just tires that are the big deal. There are fuel costs, broken parts and maintenance parts. Plus, getting to and from events has costs with it too. Also, entry fees and so on and so forth. The bike may be capable of running at those speeds but you won't be competitive. As good as any amateur thinks they are, those guys racing professionally are better, I promise.

But there were plenty of vehicles that were race ready off the showroom floor. The Dodge ACR cars were meant for club racing. The Ford Cobra R's were competitive too. Porsche made factory race cars, so did Honda, Subaru and Mitsubishi. They still make them actually. Then there are cars that were not designed expressly for racing but can be easily taken to a race track. The Lotus Elise, especially the 111R, the Mazda Miata/MX-5, BMW's, or any one of a number of the Lotus Super 7 variants. No factory car will be able to compete at the top levels though, just like no factory bike will be able to either. Sure, there might be cars that put up the numbers that say they compete but the car or bike doesn't drive itself around the track.


Shifter kart tires are not expensive. The problem is that you have to buy so many of them. In one day of racing you can go through several sets of tires. Some guys who compete at the top levels will budget 5 grand for tires for a single weekend. But that is 10-15 sets of tires usually. Granted, the tires aren't cheap but compared to other racing series, they are cheap.

And no, you won't see shifter karts on a street.




This is starting to turn in to an ugly pissing contest. Yes, bikes are fast and perform well and all that happy stuff but they come with inherent risks that many folks believe are worth more the fun you can have. There is a reason that motorcycle riders are known as "organ donors" at hospitals. Then again, cars can be just as unsafe. But honestly, in any racing venue where bikes compete at the tops levels, the similar cars at the top levels are far beyond the performance capabilities of a motorcycle. In drag racing, the fastest bikes are still in the mid 6's. When you look at the top fuel classes, they are a second and a half faster. You go to super sport bikes and yeah, they are fast but then you take an F1 car or an Indy car and lap that same track and the car will be faster. How much faster? Depends really but the car at that level will beat the motorcycle. Go off-road racing, just look at the now defunct Paris-Dakar rally and see how well the motorcycles do vs. the times the cars and trucks run.

You can find exceptions to every rule and people who will fight vehemently but throwing out a smattering of dubious facts laced with an unintentional spin doesn't change minds. It just makes people angry.

Me, I like cars better than motorcycles. You can throw out every little tidbit of info you want and it won't change my mind. I don't mind discussing it at all, I quite enjoy it but when it degrades into disguised insults and petty snipes, it's not fun anymore.

ohskigod

gotta add in,

accident with a car = Bad

accident on a bike = some lucky **** is getting your body parts.

I dont even want to mention how many crotch rocket riders I've worked up on the ambulance knowing full well it was only for the organs. Broken necks look REAL ugly up close.

I respect the bikers, but will take the car

mule

jstas, I guess its been a while since you raced in the ama, but the whole point of super sport and super stock is to be able to buy a production bike and race it stock. The changes the ama allows are exhaust and tires, and they provide a list of brands and models so that everyone has the same opportunty to buy off the shelf parts. When I was doing it you could get contingincy programs on the bike, the tires and sometimes other stuff. So based on your placing the motorcycle manufacturer would give you money, the tire company would give you free tires along with whatever purse the race payed. In supercross they even pay for qualifiers, so I knew guys like Barry Carsten from bayville that would qualify for 125 and 250 to get bonuses and race the 125 class and do 2 laps of the 250 main and pull off because he was just to tired. But thats how you make a livin at racing production bikes in the ama. I was never good enough to make money so it just cost me about 10 to 15 thousand bucks a year to have the time of my life

But unless I'm wrong I don't think racing a mini cooper works that way. I think the only way to make money racing cars is if you don't own them

Jstas

Then honestly, go do it. See how well you fare.

But you're dead wrong about cars because there are plenty of club and Sportsman levels out there where you can take almost anything and run it. Even if you want to just do weekend warrior stuff, you can take your Geo to the drag strip and run the local brackets. You could do SCCA Autocross in a parking lot somewhere. Or, you could go whole hog, build a car to spec and go racing every weekend if you want.

Honestly though, if you want to get in to racing to make money, you're dumb. There is no money in racing, only the thrill and bragging rights. Anybody who makes money is either a high profile prima donna driver or they hustle their **** off getting sponsors and selling t-shirts.

Sami

Then again, if you're one of those primadonnas you can be one of the highest paid athletes in the world. Unfortunately it looks like my son will be too tall to drive in the F1...

Raikkonen makes about $1.50 every second. #4 in the world right now after Woods, DeLaHoya and Mickelson.

Sherardp

Jstas wrote: »

Bikes just don't sound cool to me either. If I'm gonna listen to something screaming, it'd better be a V12 of some sort of an F1 engine. But a growling 4 cylinder or the silky smooth staccato of a straight 6 or the rumbling roar of a V8 is just music! Add supercharger whine or the "wheeeeee!!!!psssshhhh!!!wheeeeeee!!!!pssshhhh!!!squeaksqueaksqueak" of a turbocharger and blow-off valve and it's just....wow! No motorcycle has ever done that for me. None. Sorry.

No offense to all of this Jstas, but it sounds like you need more seat time on a bike bro. Nothing like getting that knee down on a bike, pushing out of a corner one wheel, setting it back down, and getting back on that throttle.

I'll see your car, raise you one and smoke you with my MV Agusta. Bring it on..........:p

mule

Jstas wrote: »

Then honestly, go do it. See how well you fare.

QUOTE]

I guess you misread my post, I did try and I clearly said I didn't do that well. But thats the point, every kid with his pos honda and pharter exhaust thinks he is Ricky Bobby. But with a motorcycle its truly attainable, provided you have some skill.

And its damn fun!

Jstas

Sherardp wrote: »

No offense to all of this Jstas, but it sounds like you need more seat time on a bike bro. Nothing like getting that knee down on a bike, pushing out of a corner one wheel, setting it back down, and getting back on that throttle.

I'll see your car, raise you one and smoke you with my MV Agusta. Bring it on..........:p

No, I don't need more time on a bike. They don't interest me enough to want to spend more time on them. I already said that you're not going to change my mind.

Putting a knee down is all nice and stuff but I'd rather hang the **** end out around a turn in a howling cloud of smoke and fury than drag a body part on the ground.

Besides, when I stomp the pedal from a stop, the wheels spin, the truck's **** starts wanting to walk sideways and there is a god awful roar from the engine bay and exhaust. People look, ask who the hell is that hooligan and then I proceed to lay 500 feet of black rubber marks on the road. Yeah, you can do it with a bike but it sounds and feels like a weed whacker.

You can keep your shiny bike and I'll raise you 7.4 liters of supercharged glory with a bed that doesn't have to be made!

Sami

Can we get back to the subject now?

Jstas

mule wrote: »

Jstas wrote: »

Then honestly, go do it. See how well you fare.

QUOTE]

I guess you misread my post, I did try and I clearly said I didn't do that well. But thats the point, every kid with his pos honda and pharter exhaust thinks he is Ricky Bobby. But with a motorcycle its truly attainable, provided you have some skill.

And its damn fun!

See, I've done the racing too. Drag racing, autocross and even open track events with the SVTOA, Porsche and BMW clubs. I know I'm good, all the instructors told me they were impressed with me but I don't go around thinking that I can compete without a ton more track time. To get that, I need time and money, both of which are lacking right now. There are plenty of venues to be able to break into sports car racing but they all require a level of commitment financially that I can't make. Even if I had a bike, I still wouldn't be able to make that commitment. It may be "cheap and easy" but the whole reason amateur classes like that exist is so people with limited funding can go do what they want to do without impacting those with greater talent and funding. Even at that, you still get some seriously good riders and drivers in those classes and 90% of the people that enter those classes can't compete on a level like those guys.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't try to but the way you make it sound, F1nut could strap himself onto a Honduh CBR1000RR and go be a rockstar super bike rider and that is just not going to happen.

Jstas

Sami wrote: »

Can we get back to the subject now?

Yes, please!

SlowcarIX

Always! More twist, more fun

when i was living in tucson az, it was a every friday or sat night exercise to race up mt lemmom - winners are usually the AWDs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Lemmon

initial d style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsXYKtm4hug

group consist of Evos, STis, WRX, 300ZX, supras...R1, GSX

talk about rush

Sami

An oldie but a goodie: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TKgeCQGu_ug

mule

Nice Sami ! your car is badass!