Mixed feelings about re-masters

billbillw

There were a few Led Zepellin CDs that I never purchased back when I first got into the band in the 80s, so I recently filled out my Zep collection using Yourmusic.com, which only carries the remastered versions (which is probably all you can purchase these days).

I also decided to replace all the original Zep CDs (from the mid/late-80's) with the remasters as well. I wasn't sure what to expect from this music recorded in the late 60s/early 70s. Zep was never known for their audiophile recordings anyway, but I wanted them to all match.

I finally got the chance to sit down and directly compare one of the original CDs to the remaster. I used Zep II, my favorite. I was surprised that the remaster was not clearly superior. Its a mixed bag.

I did the comparison using my Bluray and HDDVD players as transports, both connected by HDMI to my Onkyo receiver so that the same DACs/levels were used for both players. This should be as near to a direct comparison as I can do, without actually taking the discs out and swapping using the same player, which would take so long, my audio memory might fade.

1st, the remasters play about 6-8dB louder, so I had to adjust the volume each time I switched.

2nd thing I noticed is that the snare and tom drums are much cleaner and easier to pick out with the remaster. The cymbals are about the same as is the bass drum.

Next thing I noticed is that the bass guitar is much more subdued with the remaster. This I do not like. Its almost like Jimmy wanted to put himself out there in the spotlight and shove John Paul into the shadows. I mean, the bass is there, and the bass line is actually cleaner and less bloated, but the overall sound is much less heavy due to the reduced presence of the bass.

The guitars are perhaps a little cleaner, and the stereo separation is greater, but the effect of the bass being subdued make the guitar stand out more.

The vocals are really close to my ears.

I was expecting an improvement in hiss, but surprisingly found not much difference. I guess the hiss is on the master tapes and can't be removed without losing fidelity.

So anyway, I'm not sure if I like the new or the old better. Need to listen to the other discs and compare where I can.

Early B.

I agree -- many remasters are hit & miss, especially the ones from the 70's and early 80's. Surprisingly, remastered CDs from the 50's and 60's are far superior, IMO, up until the year 2000 or so.

Erik Tracy

As Mr. Spock would say...'fascinating'...

I've got two re-mastered CDs on order and planned on doing the exact same comparison.

Actually, I have vinyl, original label issue CD, and the re-mastered CD (on order) that I can do the comparison to.

I started frugally with only two titles:
1)Black Sabbath's - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
2)Aerosmith's - Get Your Wings

So, I'll post my observations when I get the re-mastered CDs and have a chance to compare them all.

Hmmm....

Erik

Danny Tse

billbillw wrote: »

I also decided to replace all the original Zep CDs (from the mid/late-80's) with the remasters as well.

I hope you're not talking about the "Target" design CDs. Those are worth some serious bucks.

strider

To me it seems like some of the remaster jobs today are geared towards people like us who are concerned with sonics, while other remasters are focused on the people using Ipods and other portable devices. For instance, the 'Dead albums redone by Rhino sound like every track on the mixer is boosted by 50%. I knew there was a pedal steel on some of the songs; on the remaster it sounds like it's the lead instrument. To me, it really throws off the balance of the song.
I don't care for many of the different iterations of Zep remasters, but the recent vinyl remasters (esp Zep I) sound absolutely incredible. For instance, I know I've listened to Good Times Bad Times hundreds of times. I've always known Bonzo was just a monster drummer, but hearing this track on a good set up had me sitting there slack jawed.

Erik Tracy

Yeah - some of the remastered CD reviews I've read simply say that the mixes are hotter/louder - not necessarily cleaner/improved.

Yuz pays yer nickel and takes yer chances......

We'll see....

Erik

billbillw

Danny Tse wrote: »

I hope you're not talking about the "Target" design CDs. Those are worth some serious bucks.

Nope. I think those were Japanese made versions. Mine are all made in US versions with just silver background and a red/black ring.

mhw58

billbillw wrote: »

There were a few Led Zepellin CDs that I never purchased back when I first got into the band in the 80s, so I recently filled out my Zep collection using Yourmusic.com, which only carries the remastered versions (which is probably all you can purchase these days).

I also decided to replace all the original Zep CDs (from the mid/late-80's) with the remasters as well. I wasn't sure what to expect from this music recorded in the late 60s/early 70s. Zep was never known for their audiophile recordings anyway, but I wanted them to all match.

I finally got the chance to sit down and directly compare one of the original CDs to the remaster. I used Zep II, my favorite. I was surprised that the remaster was not clearly superior. Its a mixed bag.

I did the comparison using my Bluray and HDDVD players as transports, both connected by HDMI to my Onkyo receiver so that the same DACs/levels were used for both players. This should be as near to a direct comparison as I can do, without actually taking the discs out and swapping using the same player, which would take so long, my audio memory might fade.

1st, the remasters play about 6-8dB louder, so I had to adjust the volume each time I switched.

2nd thing I noticed is that the snare and tom drums are much cleaner and easier to pick out with the remaster. The cymbals are about the same as is the bass drum.

Next thing I noticed is that the bass guitar is much more subdued with the remaster. This I do not like. Its almost like Jimmy wanted to put himself out there in the spotlight and shove John Paul into the shadows. I mean, the bass is there, and the bass line is actually cleaner and less bloated, but the overall sound is much less heavy due to the reduced presence of the bass.

The guitars are perhaps a little cleaner, and the stereo separation is greater, but the effect of the bass being subdued make the guitar stand out more.

The vocals are really close to my ears.

I was expecting an improvement in hiss, but surprisingly found not much difference. I guess the hiss is on the master tapes and can't be removed without losing fidelity.

So anyway, I'm not sure if I like the new or the old better. Need to listen to the other discs and compare where I can.

I'm a big Zep fan and have done lots of listening and read a lot of opinions about Zep's cd catalog. Barry Diament did the original Zep cd's except for Zep IV. He's a great mastering engineer and IMO his original cd's are far superior to the remasters. Houses of the Holy sounds fantastic on the original cd. I suggest buying all the original Zep cd's, the ones that start with '92' as the catalog #. The remasters are okay but the originals are much warmer sounding and sound great cranked up. The remasters get fatiguing after awhile, they are louder and compressed.
Mike

billbillw

mhw58 wrote: »

I'm a big Zep fan and have done lots of listening and read a lot of opinions about Zep's cd catalog. Barry Diament did the original Zep cd's except for Zep IV. He's a great mastering engineer and IMO his original cd's are far superior to the remasters. Houses of the Holy sounds fantastic on the original cd. I suggest buying all the original Zep cd's, the ones that start with '92' as the catalog #. The remasters are okay but the originals are much warmer sounding and sound great cranked up. The remasters get fatiguing after awhile, they are louder and compressed.
Mike

My original CD's calalog #s all start with '19'. The remasters start with '82'. I guess these are the one's that Page remastered circa 1990 prior to releasing the box sets and the 'Complete Studio Recordings'.

I have heard the sound of the Mothership remasters is terrible.

mhw58

billbillw wrote: »

My original CD's calalog #s all start with '19'. The remasters start with '82'. I guess these are the one's that Page remastered circa 1990 prior to releasing the box sets and the 'Complete Studio Recordings'.

I have heard the sound of the Mothership remasters is terrible.

Sorry,
you'r right, the original Zep cd's do all start with 19. I was thinking of some other original cd's. I've been going back buying original cd's of Steely Dan, CSN, the Who etc. who also have inferior remasters. Yes, Mothership is horrendous and should be avoided at all costs. VERY loud and compressed.
Mike