Speaker Project!

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Call me Insane! But I think with my christmas money, im gonna soup up my KLH's! With not completely better parts. But I'm gonna get a 8 inch Pioneer woofer from good ol ratshack, a pioneer 5 1/5 midrange from ratshack! and a 7/8 inch tweeter from ratshack! im gonna try to make these POS's sound good! LOL! newayz...How do you think these POS's will sound? lol

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

WTF! I just took out the woofer out of my KLH, and what a POS! You should see the stuffin inside this speaker...what a joke!!!! LOL! Its like a piece of thin cotton! LOL! The driver is a POS! I will love to work on these things! LOL! newayz! I like the idea! LOL!

brettw22

Why would you switch out every driver in the box and not just buy a new set of speakers? Your crossovers are all gonna have to be replaced, all the wire redone, etc......Seems like a waste of time and money to me personally.

Not to be a dick, but try to cut your LOL's down by at LEAST half. Others did ask that a few days ago.....hell....maybe you do just giggle all the time (not that there's anything wrong with that). Just chill with the LOL's in the posts please.......thanks.....

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

ok...yeah i know that the crossovers will need to be replaced. But man, i'm telling you. Im just replacing these drivers to give me something to do! I can buy a crossover also. Why not buy a new speaker thing? What's the fun in that? I want to make a speaker so to speak. Ratshack has crossover's for 20 bucks. Ill probally upgrade the wires also. The KLH is just the box. It will be no longer a klh except for probally the tweeter...unless I can find a 7/8 inch tweeter! Newayz, its a project! Not like im gonna use these speakers 24/7! lol! just something for me to do, see how easy it is to do! Im 13 - im trying to learn something...

brettw22

Thanks for leavin out the LOL's....(sorry to dwell)

So how much is this lil project gonna be runnin ya to complete with all new drivers, wires, and crossovers?

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Well, First Im just going to replace the Midrange and Woofer - Price rounded to about 60 bucks. Then If I can find a 7/8 inch tweeter, it'll be around 10 bucks. If It sounds good, I wont bother to change the crossover. If I dont like the sound, I'll change the crossover also, and might even put some gold plated binding post in these POS's! What do ya'll recomend to use as stuffing? Which this speaker desperately needs...
I'm getting all this stuff from good ol ratshack! So you know, it's just something to keep me busy! Anything sounds better than these POS KLH drivers...LOL!
KLH Midrange - Too bright, and forwards
KLH Woofer - Faded, not even there.
KLH Tweeter - Sometimes harsh, and tooooooo bright! If anyone can find me a replacement 7/8 inch tweeter. Id greately apreciate it! thank you

If I replace the entire thing, except the cabnet - it'll run around 100-140.00! Not bad right?

I Might have to rip off that KLH nameplate and make my own that says MXS LOL! MxStYlEr Speaker...weird....

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Heres the Midrange -
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F006%5F005%5F005&product%5Fid=40%2D1031

Heres the Woofer -
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F006%5F005%5F008&product%5Fid=40%2D1024

Neone thought of putting a subwoofer in place of a woofer? lol! Neone? Would it work?
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F006%5F005%5F006&product%5Fid=970%2D0530

I can see one good thing, the woofer hits to 35 hz, instead of 50!!

gidrah

I'm behind you all the way (in spirit). There are so many intricacies within a speaker that it boggles the mind. Sure you can replace the woofer for a "better" one. the problem is finding & choosing one that fits the cabinet parameters that you're given. The mid-range. Now we're talking tough. To find/pick a mid that's capable of blending with the lows and highs of your new choices will be tough. I think the tweeter will be the easiest part; providing you get the impedence and sensitivity correct, as this gets a designated bandwith point to start with and the sky's the limit.

I'll be honest when I say that; while replacing speakers and crossovers within any given cabinet is easy, it won't give you any better results (unless you study hard) than what KLH (what are they, about 60 yrs old) can provide. A better tweeter or woofer, maybe. I total rebuild would be psychoacoustic. Which is what I've been hearing.

There are plenty of DIY designs out there. The easier the better. If you know construction and woodworking like I think you do there are plans out there for K-horns, E-V Patricians, Jensen, etc. that would blow the socks off most modern day stuff. I've even seen plans for JMLab Grand Utopias. Sure they cost a few grand for materials, but much less than MSRP.

I've been around for a few years and finally did a single driver copy that I'm happy with. Sure ther are better, but for my level of understanding this was an obvious choice.

Get a copy of "Great Sound Stereo Speaker Manual" by David B. Weems. It's very insightful. It gives a number of projects as well as explaining theory and the math. Or visit the tweaks section of Audio Asylum. Just read as there is a wealth of information. If you ask a guestion, get to the point without any LOLs, as these guys aren't f'in' around.

Some of the most critically acclaimed drivers (speakers) are very ugly. With the newer neodium (sp?) magnets size isn't realy an issue. If it's a cast frame with large cross-members you can drill holes that will reduce any sort of back wave. Putting plumbers' putty along the edges should take care of any resonances from the basket.

gidrah

Well; after dedicating an hour of my life, I have one thing to say!
Don't do it.
Actually, do it. It's not my money, and you might come up with an improvement.

Good luck!

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

There should be a difference. The Pioneer Woofer hits to 35 hz. The KLH hits to 50 hz! THe midrange has a better cone, dust cap, surround - etc than the KLH midrange. It should sound alot better.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Well, Im going to Ratshack today in about a hour or so. Im going to buy the Midranges today - and the Woofers Monday. I am going to replace one midrange in one speaker, Leave the Old one in one speaker. Plug them both up, and do a direct comparison! Then I will give u 'old dudes' a reveiw..:p

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Infact, If it all works out - The Speakers Specs will be
KLH Tweeter - 7/8 inch
Pioneer Midrange - 5 1/4 inch
Pioneer Woofer - 8 inch
Wats - 140 (Same as last time...)
Freq. - 35-20. It'll hit 15 hz lower.
The Db level will still be around 88-89 db.

The pioneer midrange and woofer, should blend seemless. There are only two models of them, and their the same style. The reason i'll say that the midrange will be totally better is the fact. The KLH midrange is the same exact thing that radioshack sales to replace TV speakers. I found this out when I took off the metal grills that covers that POS! THe driver is noting but JUNK! SHEAR JUNK! I can garuntee the pioneer will sound better! LOL!

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

- I'll be honest when I say that; while replacing speakers and crossovers within any given cabinet is easy, it won't give you any better results (unless you study hard) than what KLH (what are they, about 60 yrs old) can provide. A better tweeter or woofer, maybe. I total rebuild would be psychoacoustic. Which is what I've been hearing. -

So you're saying, If I switch my 5 1/4 midrange with my Polk Audio RT25i 5 1/4 (?) woofer, there will be no difference? Thats like saying if I switch the Factory speakers in a car, and leave the original factory amp the sound will still be bad, distorted, and sucky! lol!

I highly doubt to anything that I will rebuild the entire speaker. I am just going to replace the Midrange, Woofer, and the Tweeter. Then I am going to put more stuffing in the speaker. Because the wats still add up around 130-140 wats. The crossover in the KLH does 140 wats. I know it dont matter because the crossover seperates the freq. that the drivers receive. But how the driver relays the freq. is a different story...

- it won't give you any better results (unless you study hard) than what KLH (what are they, about 60 yrs old) can provide. -
Modern Day KLH except from what I hear their Reference series suck. They dont offer anything. Hissy tweeters, too bright of midranges, with faded woofers. Their speakers are trash thats in a box. Therefore, in all respects I think I could put sony drivers in here and make them sound better. The crossover inside the KLH seems like it sends the klh frequencies at like 45 hz, and the driver stops at 50 hz...I see no point in this. Its like the woofer aint even there. Its just a waste of space and power.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Well the Midrange, is too big for the cab. But I hooked it up anywayz and gave is all a quick listen!
KLH - Bright, Unaccurte POS!
Pioneer/Optimus - Laid Back, in the middle between accurate, un-accurate! Put alot more accurate than the KLH! It has a little more precision, and makes the woofer work harder as it dont hit as low as the other midrange. Overall - the Optimus is better, too bad I have to return it.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

heres the speaker naked

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

here it is with grill on...PLZ NOTE! the colors will of course be different!

Its specs would be something like this -
Drivers
2- 6 1/2 inch Midrange
1- 8 inch woofer
2- 1 inch Metal Dome Tweeters
Wats - 250-300 per crossover, 500-600 wats per speaker.
DB - 93-97
Freq.: 29-20
Ported Speaker

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

LOL! CALL ME CRAZY! BUT...I just thought of the idea to use my Polk Audio Drivers in it...aha! Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen! LOL!

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

i wish i had around 600-700 dollars right now

danger boy

Mx got me to thinking.. before I caught the Polk bug. i too had KLH speakers.. i still have them. and I'd like to replace the tweeters. THem tweets are way to bright. If i get new tweeters... of course they will be of a different brand of hopefully higher quality. What kind of tweeters should i look at? These towers will be used in a spare bedroom two channel set up. I like the sound of the speakers... actually they don't sound to bad, just way to bright. there are 4 8" woofers (two front, two rear), 1 4" mid, and the to bright tweeter in each speaker.

thanks.

here are a couple of pics of them. it I did this right.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

does the midrange have a grill over it? if it does, wait till you take it off and find that tv style speaker under it...lmao

gidrah

You could check the back and see if there is an in-line resister. If so try replacing with one that is .5ohm greater. I can't guarantee anything, but it's worth a try.

burdette

First.. about replacing the "too bright" tweeter.. if you don't have access to any of the tweeters specs (which I doubt you do), replacing it OR a resistor will be hit and miss. You could consider putting a potentiometer (volume control) on the tweeter.

To Mx: while I appreciate your enthusiasm and the spirit of adventure ( I scratch-built my first set of speakers when I was 15), you have some very basic physics to learn about loudspeakers. Your discussion about changing out the drivers shows that you really don't understand all the complicated dynamics going on...

A couple of simple examples... you mentioned something about the ratings on the woofers... you can't just drop any woofer into any hole and have it work, nor can you drop in a more expensive woofer and automatically expect better sound. I can get better response with a cheap (or small) woofer in a properly designed enclosure than you'll get with a large (or expensive) woofer in the wrong box. It is just physics. If KLH did their job *at all*, I highly doubt you're going to improve on the sound. You may hear *differences*.. but different doesn't mean better.. one thing.. you will tend to like the louder choice regardless of whether it is better.

Also... replacing the midrange.. does the KLH midrange have a closed-back?? or is the cone open to the air in the back? Is there a separate midrange enclosure in the cabinet??

The fact that it is a 7/8" tweeter is irrelevant as far as replacement with something else...

Crossover networks are designed to work with specific drivers, in specific cabinets to produce a specific result. You don't just swap out one of the major electrical components in the circuit (such as the electric motor of the driver) and expect successful results. Radio Shack's off-the-shelf crossovers - even if they were constructed from THE best components - are still a compromise, and not necessarily a successful one at that. A loudspeaker system is a complicated system that has to be designed as a unit from beginning to end.

In short, if you want to spend some money making a pair of speakers.. go for it. Just do it right.. do the research into the drivers.. look at kits ... do you have a scope? test equipment? even a volt/amp/ohm meter? Get on some of the DIY speaker sites.... check out Madisound, Parts Express, etc.

Just some friendly advice from someone who has been there.. the 15 year old who built an insulation-lined enclosure, all nicely sealed and everything.... for a *closed-back* (i.e. sealed) tweeter, for my first homemade speakers...

madmax

Mx,
Do yourself a favor. Go to www.partsexpress.com. Go to Tech Talk at the bottom left of the screen. Don't post, just read for a few hours/days/weeks. You will soon be out talking most of us on how to design speakers and you will be able to get them to do whatever you want. Some of the designs cost only dollars to build and much of the content will be at your level once you read for awhile.
madmax

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

ill probally build me a speaker, when i know more - along down the road. If I were to build one, I would put a board under each speaker - except for tweeter and woofer side by side, then connect the boards to a ported back plate. This will elminate cross talk. Then I would run the wire of the drivers through the ports. Put a port tube directly under the center of each woofer, and between the woofer and tweeter. and under the bottum woofer. The top woofer and tweeter would go to the 2-way crossover. The bottum 3 would go into a 3-way. THe 3-way would plug into the mains. The 2-way would plug into the surrounds. Doing this, cuts the power in half. Its like mixing drivers, and in each little slot for the speaker - stuffing would be all around the sides (but still leaving the port holes open. I would also use 1 inch thick side panels. 1/2 thick top, bottum, front, back panels. Duals binding post for each crossover. Thats just using all the info i no now! lol

RuSsMaN

Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
If I were to build one, I would put a board under each speaker - except for tweeter and woofer side by side, then connect the boards to a ported back plate. This will elminate cross talk.

And to think of all the trouble Polk went to designing SDA for that same purpose. All they needed was a board under each speaker!!

As far as the rest of the post goes - Say WHAT? Huh?



Cheers,
Rooster

Listen to those guys Sid, start small, but first just READ. A great kit, for a great learning experience, is sold at Parts Express - The Dayton BR-1. Part number 300-640.

hotwheelman

A good kit is a great idea, some good reading info, and good tech talk on the web about the art of building speakers never hurts. One of the big factors is that you have to do some math to see if the woofer you have chosen will even work in your cabinet. the fs and the qts and some other factors need to be taken into account. depending on those criteria some woofers may sound decent and some even with a good frequency response will sound like crap. In other words some will work with the internal cabinet volume and some just flat out will not. Also, if the woofer that you use requires more space than you have available inside your cabinet then you can increase the amount of polyfill inside to more or less fool the woofer into thinking it 's in a larger cabinet.
Good luck with your project.