Vehicle performance upgrades
JoshParsons84
Posts: 565
Does anybody know if there is any kind of beginners tutorial or "checklist" if you will of like broken down step-by-step guide to performance upgrading your vehicle? I.E. get an exhaust first then a intake, or a intake and then a cam and then exhaust. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Post edited by JoshParsons84 on
Comments
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Depends on the car and what your goal is. Every type of car is different and may have a different starting point. I'm sure if it's a American motor like Ford or Chevy you could spends days using Google and get the info you need."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Josh I think it would be best to find a site like here on the car you are upgrading.
I always felt that intake's, chips if you have a car thats chip able, and CAI are always a good way to start. -
Thanks guys. By the way it's a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GT. I've got a settlement coming in and when it does that's what I'm getting. It's gonna be my baby. I know of a site called www.3800performance.com that I can get anything and everything I want for the 3.8L motor. But it's a little bit easier if you kinda have some kind of guide to go by. Or maybe that's just me. I'm real big on second opinions and thirds and fourths LOL.
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Always do exhaust first. That's normally where the biggest problem is it.
The real question is, how far are you taking it? There are different grades of
exhaust upgrades, and if you decide to go all out, start with a big buck
exhaust upgrade starting with headers all the way back.
I know Edelbrock has power packages with intake, cam, and heads.
Chevy and Ford stuff is turn-key. Pick your budget and write the check.
Pontiac? Check the Hot Rod archives. I seem to remember a big project on one
of those."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Well when I get the car as far as exhaust/headers go I'm thinking about SLP Headers with either a Corsa cat-back exhaust, Borla cat-back exhaust, or SLP "Power Flo" cat-back with slashed tips.
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My $.02
All of the bolt-on's are going to have to come off if you plan on getting into the guts of the motor. Start from the inside and work out. Saves alot of time, money, and aggravation. -
Intake install (more air in)
Headers and exhaust (more air out)
Computer upgrade (more fuel and aggressive timing)
Turbo charger (boost)
This is the order I would do if you're going bolt on route -
My $.02
All of the bolt-on's are going to have to come off if you plan on getting into the guts of the motor. Start from the inside and work out. Saves alot of time, money, and aggravation.
Are you talking about like cam and valvesprings and forged pistons and all that good ****? That makes better sense. Too bad the engine internals cost more than bolt-ons huh? -
Not always.My $.02
All of the bolt-on's are going to have to come off if you plan on getting into the guts of the motor. Start from the inside and work out. Saves alot of time, money, and aggravation.
If you're doing things step by step, supporting mods first. If you installed ported heads and a large cam in a motor with a stock exhaust and intake, it would run like crap.
To the OP, how much do you want to spend?
I'm familiar with the 3800's. I had a 99 Regal GS with bolt ons that ran a 13.5, and now have a 98 Riv that has a few bolt ons also, but won't see the track.
For the naturally aspirated 3800, you should really consider forced induction if you want to go fast. If you're just looking for a little more pickup, intake, rockers, and a downpipe. A catback will help too, but the gains are minimal and the sound of the 3800 through a free flow exhaust isn't for everyone.
Let me know if you have anymore questions."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I know at least the older (meaning newer than '97 but older than 2004) W-body cars with the 3800 had an ugly-looking "U" shape in the exhaust just behind the cat, where an O2 sensor was mounted. Looks like they bent the "U" in the exhaust so that the sensor could sit on top of the pipe between it and the underside of the body. That looks like it could be a significant restriction. Like Face said though, be mindful of the 3800 exhaust note- The drone will get old on a daily driver.
You can almost always do your basic intake and exhaust mods without having to be too awfully concerned with their compatibility with other mods. Alone, they may not net you a large seat-of-the-pants gain, but just about any setup can benefit from less intake and exhaust restriction. Again agreeing with Face, forced induction is really the way to go with those motors if you're looking for serious power gains. -
JoshParsons84 wrote: »Well when I get the car as far as exhaust/headers go I'm thinking about SLP Headers with either a Corsa cat-back exhaust, Borla cat-back exhaust, or SLP "Power Flo" cat-back with slashed tips.
Dual Spintechs dropped at the rear axle...save the $$$ for better mods..SLP better suited for big V-8's you would not get that bang for the buck....had this setup on a 03 GP...sounded very un3.8 like
..do you have inspections in your state/ smog check? if not then you can really have fun...all advice given good ..the site you mentioned is a better place to draw on experince on what does and doesnt work with the 3.8...but mostly boils down to more air in more air ou cooler the better.. and never ever waste your money on a spacer..biggest piece of crap touted as a will improve HP...have fun....headers yes and a bigger dia exhaust...for less than 1/2 the price of a name brand cat back you can do dual spintechs... -
My thinking is a little different. When I did my car the suspension and brakes were the first things I improved. Most cars have enough power to learn to drive properly. Once you have the handling and braking of the car right then go for power. Depending on how far you go with the motor you may have to go to a more aggressive brake pad but that's about it. I put coilovers and extra stiff springs, better brake rotors and pads, strut brace and X brace (ties underside of the front of the car together better) and better tires. Once I was happy with the handling/braking of the car I put on cat back exhaust, CAI and software. To me if you really add a lot of power and don't improve handling and braking you are asking for trouble.
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Yeah that's a good idea also. I know a good bit about handling and suspension and probably do that first. I was just getting ideas. I wish this damn money would hurry up and come in.
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You may want to save some of the $$$ for the extra gas you're going to burn with the mods being considered.
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The 3800's usually get BETTER fuel economy with bolt ons. It's not until you dip into the motor does fuel economy decrease.jmwest1970 wrote: »You may want to save some of the $$$ for the extra gas you're going to burn with the mods being considered."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
My thinking is a little different. When I did my car the suspension and brakes were the first things I improved. Most cars have enough power to learn to drive properly. Once you have the handling and braking of the car right then go for power. Depending on how far you go with the motor you may have to go to a more aggressive brake pad but that's about it. I put coilovers and extra stiff springs, better brake rotors and pads, strut brace and X brace (ties underside of the front of the car together better) and better tires. Once I was happy with the handling/braking of the car I put on cat back exhaust, CAI and software. To me if you really add a lot of power and don't improve handling and braking you are asking for trouble.
I also had to add suspension components and differential mods before adding horsepower to my truck. It would one wheel peel and hop the rear wheels ( Axle wrap ) when trying to use even all of the factory horsepower.
After installing Deaver leaf springs and traction bars, I installed a TrueTrac differential as well.....with both tires now staying on the ground AND both spinning...I could add horsepower now and be able to utilize it.
I also did numerous other suspension upgrades for offroading, but those mentioned were required for additional horsepower.The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club -
My thinking is a little different. When I did my car the suspension and brakes were the first things I improved. Most cars have enough power to learn to drive properly. Once you have the handling and braking of the car right then go for power. Depending on how far you go with the motor you may have to go to a more aggressive brake pad but that's about it. I put coilovers and extra stiff springs, better brake rotors and pads, strut brace and X brace (ties underside of the front of the car together better) and better tires. Once I was happy with the handling/braking of the car I put on cat back exhaust, CAI and software. To me if you really add a lot of power and don't improve handling and braking you are asking for trouble.
There is a 12" brake upgrade available for the W-body which helps. You can even go a step further and upgrade to f-body or C5 brake calipers.
You bring up a good point about better pads. Even since I went to carbon metallic pads on my cars, I haven't warped a rotor since. They don't retain heat or chunk like ceramics. The only negative is that they have a little less bite until they're warmed up.
There are a few swaybar options for the W-bodies, which IMO are the best bang for the buck as far as handling goes. Lowering kits help too, but also make the ride harsh."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Can you get a GTP instead of a GT? It may save you money in the long run.
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Also, its much cheaper to do all your mods affecting airflow (in and out) at the same time, then you only have to tune it once.
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Or you could save your cash for a car more suited to mods. Keep this one as
a daily driver, make a project car. First rule of hod rodding, keep one running.
I miss the days of the Fox body Mustang. Easy, cheap, fast. Not many
cars in the modern age are that easy to make perform.
One thing that drives me nuts is guys dropping tens of thousands of dollars
to get a car to run like a sports car, when the real thing was much less.
Son #1 is a big Trans am kinda guy. He's had serveral, and is now thinking about a Vette."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Or you could buy a Corolla, Civic, etc and avoid being a slave of gas
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Or you could but a Corolla, Civic, etc and avoid being a slave of gas
As long as I could stay out of the pedal, my modded Regal averaged 30mpg on the parkway and 20 local. The only downfall was that it required premium. With C5 with full bolt ons did about the same. But after upgrading the heads, cam, converter, and rear, it dropped to half of that. :rolleyes:"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Or you could but a Corolla, Civic, etc and avoid being a slave of gas
Where is the fun in that?
Me personally, I really wouldn't waste my time with a FWD 3.8L V6 like that. The aftermarket is quite limited and what ever you do find is going to cost you an arm and a leg. I'd honestly do, maybe an exhaust system, upgrade to ferro-carbon brake pads all around with slotted or cross-drilled rotors, stiffer sway bars, urethane bushings and shocks/struts and be done with it. Don't even bother with springs. If you want to spend that kind of bank on making the car handle better, subframe connectors. With all that though, you'd get the sound but keep the economy and the car would turn on a dime and make change and stop like you threw an anchor out the back.
Remember, if it's your only car, you gotta live with it every day. The more extreme stuff you get for it, the more difficult it will be. Also, you can budget all you want but it will always end up costing more than you planned. Also, if you don't have the time/know-how then big projects that take time are going to pull your car out of service for extended periods.
Too often I see people with high hopes and aspirations going after such goals as doing "something different" to be unique. Well, the more "unique" you are, the more it will cost you. And if you are planning on getting anything tuned, it will be hard to find someone that isn't a mickey mouse operation that can tune a more "unique" car.
I'm not trying to burst your bubble. Just being realistic. Don't be one of those guys that gets in way over his head and destroys a perfectly good working car because he took it apart and isn't sure how to put it back together again.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
Well guys I'm sorry I hate to burst everybody's bubble but I'm not making an extreme thing out of this. First and foremost it's gonna be my daily driver. Think of it as the "gentlemens performance car". Just getting groceries a little quicker if you will. It's gonna be my "family car". It's no weekend car by far. It's the everday car that me and the old lady and kids can go down the road in. I just wanted to know if there was some kind of like mechanics checklist you can go by for fixing up your car.
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Most mechanics will tell you to leave it stock.
Get a CAI and be done with it. If you want to get more involved, get a downpipe, ported manifolds, and rockers. You and I both know how they sound when you put a free flowing exhaust on it, not very WAF friendly. Plus the gains from a catback are very minimal on that car till you get over 300 hp. "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Grab a reprogrammed PCM, CAI, and get an SLP or Borla exhaust and be done with it. BTW, you could try a 180' thermo, and some colder plugs, but I really don't think you'll get any gains unless you get up into the GTP(supercharged) model.
FYI, I use to own two GTP's. I had a '00 and an '04, I modded the hell out of the 2000. The re-pro PCM is the biggest bang for the buck, along with a smaller pulley for the blower(GTP model).
Mike -
Just out of curiosity, what kind of numbers were you getting out of your 2000 GTP?Grab a reprogrammed PCM, CAI, and get an SLP or Borla exhaust and be done with it. BTW, you could try a 180' thermo, and some colder plugs, but I really don't think you'll get any gains unless you get up into the GTP(supercharged) model.
FYI, I use to own two GTP's. I had a '00 and an '04, I modded the hell out of the 2000. The re-pro PCM is the biggest bang for the buck, along with a smaller pulley for the blower(GTP model).
Mike
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audiobliss wrote: »Just out of curiosity, what kind of numbers were you getting out of your 2000 GTP?
1/4 mile: On bone stock tires I'd run 13.6-13.7 at 101-103mph (Off course the speed and times were dependant on my 60' times.)
Mods: 3.6 blower pulley, re-pro PCM, MSP CAI, 180' stat, NGK plugs, Fuel pressure reg(a few lbs more than stock) Shift-kit for tranny, Aftermarket DP, CAT, U-bend removal and full Borla cat-back. High octane unleaded racing fuel was used at the track.
:(I sure do miss that car... To be honest, it was a lot better than my '04. I believe the quality went down with the years... -
Hey Mike do you think the 6th generation is better than the 7th generation? I'm talking all around...comfortability, performance,sex appeal everything?
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I don't remember what generation is which, I believe that the 97-03 was the 6th, and the latter is the 7th?
I personally like the looks of the previous generation, especially with the SLP ram-air hood. Performance, I'd think the '00 had the edge, the '04 was a heavier car. Supposively, the 04 had a more refined 3800 motor and tranny.
BTW, check out www.clubgp.com, there is a TON of useful information over there, I've been out of the loop for awhile...
Mike
