My ears seem to hurt after about 30-40 minutes.

garnier

Hi, I am watching movies in my 7.1 home theatre mode, with LSi9's fronts, LSiC center, LSi9's backs, LSiFX sides, and Outlaw Model 7700 (300 wpc @4-ohm) amplifier. I have calibrated my system three times just to make sure that they come out to be about same. I am using 12 guage speaker wires. I have a Monster Power/Surge Protector/Conditioner.
One thing I have noticed is that my ears seem to hurt after watching a movie for more than 30-40 minutes. Is it because of distortions? Then, where would the distortion come from? My amp specifiction shows that it has THD of 0.03% at 300 watts @4-ohm.
Does anyone know if I am doing something wrong in my set up?
Thank you!

Hawkeye

It probably is not distortion. Your playing it too loud. Do you have an SPL meter? If you do, take some average readings during the movie and see what kind of number you come with. I'm going to sound like an old **** here, which I am, but I have hearing damage and it is not a pleasant thing to live with considering I enjoy listening to music.

You can cause hearing loss/pain at 85db. See link. Be careful.

http://www.abelard.org/hear/hear.htm#how-loud

nikolas812

Hehe.

Turn it down.:D

McLoki

If you have calibrated your system, what volume do you listen at? (my typical movie volume is -20 to -15. I usually demo my system at -10 but that is pretty loud to watch movies at. (although if home alone I do listen in the -12 range)

I can hit reference level with my sytem (0) but would never consider watching a movie at that volume.

Michael

treitz3

It's not your gear unless for some reason the Outlaw spec's are deceiving. The LSi series are anything but ear fatiguing. Are you running an external processor? Are you running a flat signal? Have you tried setting everything back to factory default if possible? As mentioned above, how loud are your listening levels?

Frank840

McLoki wrote: »

If you have calibrated your system, what volume do you listen at? (my typical movie volume is -20 to -15. I usually demo my system at -10 but that is pretty loud to watch movies at. (although if home alone I do listen in the -12 range)

I can hit reference level with my sytem (0) but would never consider watching a movie at that volume.

Michael

jesus are you Deaf! I am lucky to hit -40 for movies and -25 music.

garnier

Thank you all for your feedbacks!
I play movies at about -12 db. All my speakers are set between about -9 and -12 db after calibration.
I don't have a SPL meter.
I use a Denon AVR-3808CI receiver as my pre-amplifier.
I use its Dolby Pro Logic IIx Cinema mode for 7.1 mode.
Thank you!

mg196

-12 is pretty damn loud. If your ears are hurting, the most likely reason is because they can't take the volume levels you are throwing at them. You should retrain your ears to pick up audio detail at MUCH lower volumes.

McLoki

Frank840 wrote: »

jesus are you Deaf! I am lucky to hit -40 for movies and -25 music.

Are you sure your system is calibrated? Reference level (0db) is 85db average volume with 105db peaks from each channel. 115db peaks from the sub.

I don't think you could hear -40 with my system. (dialog would be about 45db with 65db peaks from each channel - sub would be about 75db peaks)

To calibrate use a disk from DVE or Avaia and calibrate to 75 or 85db repectively with the volume at 0...

Michael

obieone

Get your hearing checked.

dorokusai

How have you "calibrated"??

garnier

dorokusai wrote: »

How have you "calibrated"??

I used Denon AVR's Audyssey MultEQ.

dorokusai

You realize that it's not neccesary to listen at reference volume right?

I would disconnect the surrounds and center channel, and listen to something familiar, in stereo mode.

Does it sound better or worse?

garnier

When switched to a stereo mode when I am watching a movie, the sound doesn't get louder or better.

I guess I was just playing too loud that my ears got tired.
I thought no matter how loud I play the movies, if there are low distortions, then my ears wouldn't be fatigued. I guess I was wrong!
I will just play between -15 and -20 db from now on.

danger boy

you shouldn't have any distortions.. if you have distortions.. turn it down.. no distortion = good levels. but yeah turn that stuff down.. or you'll be deaf in 2 years.

McLoki

Laz - nice sig...

Garnier - turn it down.

Ears are not muscles. They don't get tired - they get damaged...

mg196

McLoki wrote: »

Ears are not muscles. They don't get tired - they get damaged...

Quote of the week!

Frank840

McLoki wrote: »

Are you sure your system is calibrated? Reference level (0db) is 85db average volume with 105db peaks from each channel. 115db peaks from the sub.

I don't think you could hear -40 with my system. (dialog would be about 45db with 65db peaks from each channel - sub would be about 75db peaks)

To calibrate use a disk from DVE or Avaia and calibrate to 75 or 85db repectively with the volume at 0...

Michael

I never actually bought a disk to calibrate I just setup the room set the speakers up to seating arrangement also set it up so they is no dead spots for the subwoofer. My Reciever goes from -95 to 0. Like settings for the Reciever Center is set to Zero and and SS. Fronts are set to +2 and SS, Rears are -6 and SS, and Surround is -6 and SS aswell. -20 set on the volume is the tharshhold for me and I love loud music it is also the volume in which neighbors perfer me not to go to and they can hear it starting at -30.

garnier

Lasareath wrote: »

Garnier,

You need some wall treatments, every professionally set up theatre has them. I used to get headaches as well and then I bought 10 24" by 48" by 4" panels and my headaches went away.

Check out this site, they have a calculator for your room. Their calculator said I needed 24 2" panels, I bought 10 4" panels and it's pretty damn nice,

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html

Sal

Wall sound panels seem like a really attractive option for me. I know it will substantially improve my Home Theatre experience, as well as allow me to play at higher volume without giving me an earache. I will consider that and put some up my wall sometime in the future. Thanks for the link; I checked their website and it told me that I needed about 8 24" by 48" by 2" panels for about $320.
For right now, I will play at lower volumes, between around -15 and -20 db.
Yes, my ears will be irreversibly damaged if I play things too loud! But it is true that they get tired as a warning sign before they get damaged. That is what I worried about!
Thank you all for your suggestions!

bbeacham

garnier wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is that my ears seem to hurt after watching a movie for more than 30-40 minutes. Is it because of distortions? Then, where would the distortion come from?

Have you acoustically treated your room to reduce reflections? Try this site for info.
http://www.auralex.com/

zx_toth

I had this 'tired' feeling occur as well while watching Predator very loud, believing that gun shots actually needed to be as loud as gun shot sounds next to me in real life ...

It was too loud, as would be listening to gun shots next to my head in everyday life ....

I have since turned down the volume and no longer experience this 'tiredness'

Zsolt

garnier

I used a SPL meter to measure the sound level and it turned out to be between 55 and 65 db for normal dialogue scenes and between 70 and 80 db for action-packed scenes at A-weighted mode that includes frequencies between 500 Hz and greater; at C-weighted mode it was about 10 db greater for each type of scenes, so about up to 90 db in action scenes. This was when my receiver was set at -13 db. I know I should be careful not to damage my ears, because it is rarely reversible! So I wll be careful not to strain my ears.
I am seriously thinking of adding sound panels, first for enhancing the look for the feel of home theatre and, second for improving the sound quality. I will order acoustic panels from ATS acoustic. Fourteen black and ivory 24" by 48" by 4" panels for $810 including shipping and handling! http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24x48x4--1008.html
I will let you people know if there is any improvement after the work and upload some of the pictures of my setup as well for you to see! Thank you for all of your informations. I appreciate!

kuntasensei

Audyssey MultEQ takes some careful setup to get right. A few things to consider:

1) USE A TRIPOD. This is mandatory to get useable results. If you're sitting there holding the mic, not only does your body itself affect the detection, holding the mic can transfer low frequency noise that plays hell with the calibration.

2) Once using a tripod, raise the mic so that it is just above any headrests you have on your seating. Headrests can mess with the equalization.

3) Do all 8 positions. I don't care if all you have a single chair... do center, right, left, repeat those three about 2-3 feet further into the room, then do 2 positions kind of in the middle of that circle. You're trying to give it as much data as possible on your room's effect on the sound.

4) The Denons have selectable curves for Audyssey. If you're experiencing fatigue, you may be using the FLAT mode, which doesn't filter the highs. High frequencies are usually what cause issues with fatigue. Try using the AUDYSSEY mode instead, which does a THX-like rolloff of the very high end to compensate for the fact that you're sitting so close to your speakers in your home theater (whereas movies are mixed for large theaters).

I suggest a re-calibration, paying close attention to mic placement and setup. You shouldn't be having that problem with such nice gear.

garnier

Thanks, kuntasensei for your helpful info on how to get most out of calibration!

I only tried to play loud because I wanted to make the most use out of my external amplifier, Outlaw Model 7700, 300 wpc @4-ohm. My $1,500 Denon receiver could output about 150 wpc @4-ohm into stereo mode, or about 70 wpc into 7 channels. Even if it is actually closer to 50 wpc into 7 channels, if I can't play loud, why would it be a limiting factor or a problem? There are some $20,000 amplifiers that produce 40 wpc anyway, aren't there?
My point is, wouldn't my Denon receiver be enough to power seven 4-ohm LSi series speakers, if I have to play at an average volume level anyway? Why would I need $2,000 300 wpc external amplifier? Would I get benefits in sound qualities even if I have to play at low volume level that doesn't require a lot of currents from an amplifier?

cfrizz

It has to do with your speakers being 4ohms. This has been talked to death, do some research here on the forum about LSI's & receivers.

You don't need to spend 2000.00 for amplification if you buy it used. But you already have a very good amplifier. And believe it or not you are getting the best out of your Outlaw since you aren't blowing up your speakers trying to run them off of the Denon.

So long as whatever you are playing & watching is crystal clear & intelligible, there is no reason to try to blast it as loud as you can.

As you are finding out the hard way, your ears are giving out before your amp is!

kuntasensei

Adding an external amp is not really about making your system LOUDER. More than anything, it's about driving your speakers at higher levels with less distortion. You could hook those speakers to the Denon and drive them to reference levels in most home theater sized rooms. However, as you approach the limits of the receiver's amp section, you're introducing distortion. The Outlaw amp you have is a very clean amp that can adequately drive 4 ohm speakers... so it should not only give you ample power to drive those speakers (though you'll never use anywhere near 300 watts on any given channel with the high sensitivity of the Polks, even at reference levels, unless you're in a VERY large room), it should drive them very cleanly.

More clean power is a good thing. I still think the OP's problem lies in following more careful calibration techniques to get a better result from Audyssey calibration. Audyssey MultEQ XT is a very advanced system, and is therefore susceptible to the old "garbage in, garbage out" axiom. Acoustic room correction is something you should be very careful with... and if your room has significant acoustic issues, no room correction method can work miracles.

For more intensive setup advice with Audyssey, see my post (post 2) in the Onkyo 705 AVS thread located here. Though your Denon is different, the general setup advice with Audyssey MultEQ XT is the same.

garnier

Thank you for your very helpful information, kuntasensei!
It would help improve my sound greatly!