What is the best one farad capacitor out on the market today?

Keske944

Hey all. I was wondering if anyone knows what the best/most efficent cap is? I was told by one retailer that Monster is the only cap that is truly filled with solid wire. According to him (who I dan;t believe and won't be doing buiness with) all the other caps on the market are only like 40% wire and the rest is filled with sand just to add weight. Right now I am planning on putting two Audiobahn Digital caps in my car and was wondering if there is anything out there that is better for a sound quality system that will be running around 2500 watts. I will attach the specs on the caps that I am planning on using. Once again any advice/feedback will be welcomed.

TrappedUnder Ice

1) why do you think you need caps
2) there is never such a thing as "the best" just good bad and the ugly
3) do you even know what makes up a cap..cause your dealer surely does not

As you can tell.. I'm not favorable towards caps. they Show nicely though...if thats what your into.

others will dissagree..I personaly think caps are waste of time and money..

good luck:rolleyes:

PoweredByDodge

dude -- you totally must have asked a circuit city guy huh?

sand -- what the hell!!!!

he's insane -- hoenstly, the man is 100% insane.

a Cap doesn't even have wire in it!!!!!!!

A cap consists of a rolled piece of foil (aluminum / silver / whatever anybody wants to use that is conductive), and it's rolled in the presence of a dielectric (something that increases the quality of the purpose that the cap serves) which is often something resembling anti-freeze in consistency.

(still laughing over sand comment).

there are good and bad caps -- no "best"... basically any good respectable major market cap is "good". These would include names like Rockford / Monster / Lightning Audio / Audiobahn / Streetwires, etc etc etc. You should stay away from names like Legacy, Pyramid, Profile, Pyle, and others like that because they are made by companies that really do make inferior products all around.

A "good" cap has a "good" metal foil in its construction, good solid terminals, and a higher quality of construction (way its built). a poor cap has a cheap crap metal and a poor dielectric.

Overall, for the price -- I like lightning audio 1 farad non-digital-top caps because I really don't care what it says the voltage is... but some people do, and that's why cap companies make digital top caps. -- that audiobahn should be fine for ya --

just keep this "rule" in mind -- u should get 1 farad for every 1000 watts rms you run. so 2500 = 3 caps. This also assumes that your car's electrical system has been sufficiently prepared -- caps are not "fix alls" for weak electrical systems... they are simply something to keep your voltage steady during music playing... so if you are having power problems, first fix wiring / battery or multiple batteries / alternator -- then get yourself some caps afterward.

Good Luck -- and stay away from circuit city...lol )

TrappedUnder Ice

Gee vinnie...aint that what I said??? :0)

PoweredByDodge

well yes but see you didnt' explain it -- old people often forget to explain things -- its the first sign of alzheimers aka old-time-ers. :oP

goingganzo

a cap is good for keeping you lights from dimming but if you cant draw enough curent you need a seccond battery i would add a seccond battery befor a cap it is about 150 -200 for a battery

TrappedUnder Ice

Its amazing how many folks think a cap is used for light dimming.
Just plain ignorant!... but that is what the manufactures want most folks to be...

"just add a second battery"

another classic statement

If your going to run more than your current alternator can handle- then upgrade it. Then if you want to add a second battery for the audio system go ahead.

course..you have to believe that the alternator runs the system.. though many Ignorants think the battery does? Hmmm wonder where these kids get these ideas???

Maybe I'm just old schooled and Like systems to be done proper. All this BAND AID B.S. just gives me gas

oh well...

sntnsupermen131

if your system is drawing out that much watts i would definitely get a bigger alternator
but if you shop around online you can find caps for a lot cheaper than say best buy or circuit city
at ikesound.com you can get a 1farad for 99 and i think free shipping
thats without the digital readout
it looks better but doesnt really do anything except eat more out of your wallet
-Cody

Rogue Torino

If you ever get anougher saleperson who tells you such a rediculous thing such as filling a cap with sand he should be fired. I work at circuit city myself and if i ever saw a salesperson saying such crap as that i'd make sure i'd set him straight or get him removed from our company. Lying to customers is heavily frowned upon and if you do witness this report the employee to the Managment. As for a fix for any really high Amp draw system you'll either need a better alternator or an additional alternator (a bit tricky with the tight space in newer cars). Either way your going to need a higher total Amperage coming out of your car's charging system/ Alternator(s)

Rogue Torino

Powered By Ford i hate to nit pick ya but the word your looking for is electrolyte. After all these caps are electrolytic capacitors. dielectric fluid would be totally non conductive. yes yes i know your saying, "shut the hell up you geek!" right about now but dielectric fluid would be just as usefull as let's say SAND in a cap.

ntculenuff

just wanted to jump in a say that caps actually do help with light dims.. i put a full farad on my sub amp (jl 500x1) just to help out the amp and it did eliminate a lot of my light probs. still dim but very slightly not as noticeable as before..threw a 1/2 farad on my high amp (jl 300x4) just because i had it..what the hell it cant hurt....
but i do need to get a bigger altenator or have mine rewound..this i do know

Jstas

A capacitor is meant as protection, not a solution. If lights are dimming in the vehicle, there is an issue with the charging system and it's ability to support the current draw of the car's electrical systems and the stereo system. A capacitor may seem like it is solving a problem but it is merely masking a problem. If you do not address the real problem and beef up your charging system to support the amperage load, you are setting yourself up for some seriously expensive electrical repairs. Either fix it now or start saving. You may think it is expensive now but the cost now will look cheap compared to the repair bill your will get down the road.

Other options:
- Don't try to support so many watts.
- Don't listen to your stereo so loud so that your current draw stays low enough for you system to handle.

I'm betting either of those are undesireable.

I had originally written alot more than this but decided that I'm too new here to come storming in and preaching.


Also, sntnsupermen131, watts are not drawn. Current is drawn and it is rated in amperage. Circuits are rated in resistance (aka: impedance which is rated as ohms). Voltage is the electrical potential of a circuit (basically, how much power can be transfered between two points in that circuit). Wattage is the product of voltage and current.


A little plug for Polk here too. I have been doing this stereo thing since I was 15 (almost 11 years now). I was running 200w on a small bridged amplifier drawing 15 amps. The sub was a 10 inch Polk dB in a .647 cubic foot enclosure. Very discrete and un-noticable install. That is until I turned up the volume. Many people thought it was a 12 inch sub or multiple 10s. Yeah, I know, big deal right? Well, my point is, Polk speakers do not come cheap because you get what you pay for. Unlike many of the more popular speaker companies out there in automotive circles, I have never had any problem finding info, specifications or scientific research behind my Polk speakers. Just reading Polk literature it is evident that putting thought and consideration into component selection and system construction will yeild astounding results. Much better than just throwing more power at it. I grew up with friends who thought more power was better and went with the most hyped up product. I couldn't afford big power. I had to do the best with what I had and I ended up winning local sound-off competitions when I was seriously out-matched in power and cost levels. Use your head, the solution isn't more power it's using what you have to it's absolute limit. When you can honestly say that you have done that and you have not been satisfied then go get more power. Before that, all you are getting is bragging rights. Don't believe me? Come find me. I have 800 watts distributed through 5 channels. Give me a chance to give a listen. Hold on to your socks though, they will get blown off.

Systems

I have 2 RockFord Puch amps. 800.2 running 2 ohm stereo for subs. Makes over 1000 watts rms. I have a 2 Farad cap on this amp. The other amp is a 600.4 making about 540 watts rms for stereo speakers. This amp is running off a 1 Farad cap. My vechicles is a 2001 Ford Escape. I have the stock 110 amp alternator. I get the occasional voltage drop (Dim headlights) on Heavy Bass hits. Even with 3 Farads worth of Caps. I already have installed an Optima Orange top battery. I have worked as an Auto tech for 10 years. You need a higher ouput Alternator. The only reason to use a second battery is for running the stereo with the engine off. Like at a car audio show. Caps do stabilize the Voltage levels in the car. I had a 93 Escort GT with 3 MTX amps. Made over 1500 watts rms. Was using a AIS 150 amp alternator, 3 1 Farad caps on sub amp, 1/2 Farad cap on 4 channel amp, 1/4 farad cap (The only one that would fit the location) on an amp for 6*9's. My voltage had a .2v ripple on transients(loud Bass hits) at idle.
If you wish to discuss further, Please e-mail me at:
C.J.PHILHOWER@WORLDNET.ATT.NET

sntnsupermen131

speaking of all this i need a bigger alternator
i cant afford a $500 alternator or anything of that sort but i need something better than the stock one i have
anyone know where i can find one that will fit a 1996 gmc 2500 v8(2wd but i dont think that matters...)?
(used is great new....ie. ebay)
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

Originally posted by Rogue Torino
Powered By Ford i hate to nit pick ya but the word your looking for is electrolyte. After all these caps are electrolytic capacitors. dielectric fluid would be totally non conductive. yes yes i know your saying, "shut the hell up you geek!" right about now but dielectric fluid would be just as usefull as let's say SAND in a cap.

um.. no.. I suggest you buy a book -- something by Fishbane perhaps...

may i quote from one of my Engineering text books...

"Electrolytic Capacitors have capacitances of roughly the same size in even smaller volumes than multilayer ceramic capacitors. In them, the dielectric -- a non conducting metal oxide -- is depositted in a thin layer on a sheet of metal. The second conductor is a conducting paste or liquid that adheres well to the metal oxide. The dielectric layer between the conductors can be made quite thin- as thin as 10^-8 meters. Moreover, by etching the metal before the dielectric layer is deposited, a series of sharp valleys is created in teh metal, greatly increasing its surface area. If we recall that the capacitance of parallel paltes is inverse proportional to the distance between the plates and proportional to the area of the plates, we see that electrolytic capacitors can have very large capacitances." -- Fisbane, Gasirowicz, Thornton -- "Physics for Scientists and Engineers Second Edition" Volume II, Prentice Hall, 1996.

It then goes into a detailed description of how to actually make a 1 or 1/2 farad cap and the dimensions of material needed.

I would not have even wasted my time replying, but you're completely wrong. Dielectrics are used the same in parallel plate ceramic caps as well as electrolytic caps -- if you need further reference i'll mail you the book, and 10 others that state the same thing. Here's the webster's definition of an electrolyte: "a liquid conductive substance which causes flow of electricity via ions"

a dielectric, on the other hand, is a NON-conductive substance.

a capacitor isn't worth a damn if it has a conductive substance between the plates -- then there would be no capacitance, simply straight current flow -- a conductive substance would be like putting a piece of wire between the plates -- you NEED a dielectric.

I've got two suggestions for you...

1- don't ever slander dodge with the monicar of ford again.
2- read more.

3/4 of this thread is absolutel non-sense and proves true that few people have any idea how to use a cap (or whehter they ought to at all).

I thank god for ppl like thomas -- the man is a wise oracle of stuff... lol.

PoweredByDodge

also for the guyu with the chevy 2500 who wants more juice -- dude you've probably got like 120 - 140 ampheres outa that alt... that is not bad -- you can run up to 3,500 or more RMS off of that -- i run 3,000 off of 117 ampheres (2 wd dodge 1500).

all you need to do is get another battery. look... 3,000 watts divided by 13.8 volts = 217 amps... for me that's only twice what my alt is putting out. you can deal with that with another battery.. since your bass is not hitting CONSTANTLY... only with the beat of the song, your electrical system has a chance to regroup inbetween beats.

get yourself two 900 - 1100 cold cranking amp batteries (i suggest energizer / die hard / or exide) and run all 0 gauge wire from your alt and ground to batteries and then from batts to 3 or 4 one farad caps. then branch off to your amps. you should be MORE THAN FINE with that. and its a whole lot cheaper, better, easier than getting a monster alternator that will probably **** the bed an die on your within a week -- most aftermarket alternators only put out high currents at VERY high rpm's (like 3500 or 4000 rpms, and us truck guys only get up to 2,000 on the highway)... and not to mention they're usually poorly built and rust out sooner than the sheetmetal on an 86 Fiat.

PoweredByDodge

and if you're all wondering what i'm talking about by "efficient use of power" ... here's what i'm pushing...

TWO -- MTX 81000d mono block amps putting out 1250 - 1500 watts rms EACH

TWO -- JBL GTX 180x1 amps bridged putting out up to 180 x 1 watts rms EACH

ONE -- JBL GTQ 190 x 2 putting out 95 x 2 watts rms.

also running -- 4 15 inch neon sticks.
-- Kenwood 10 disc changer
-- sirius sat radio receiver
-- cb radio
-- fm modulator

This is all off of nothing but a stock 117 amp alternator (i had a rewound 150 - 170 amp one that i dumped -- it was a piece of crap), three one farad lightning audio strike capacitors, and two energizer 900 CCA batteries with all 0 gauge wiring (two 0 gauge lines to the caps and then 2 gauge to the 81000d's and 4 gauge to a d block and off to the smaller amps.)

I get absolutely NO light dimming, and no noticeable "loss" of power... sure, due to teh fact that i'm pulling more than the alt can handle, i'm probably running like 13.1 or 13.2 volts with the system going hard and heavy, but so what... the electricaly system supports it, and the music keeps coming.

sntnsupermen131

thanks a lot powered by dodge
ill look into it
how much do one of those batteries cost?
and where did you put your extra battery?
i dont really have room under the hood
i have a tool box--could i run it in there?
and if i have a rf bd 1000 pulling out 1000 and a rf 500 watt pulling out 250(125x2 at 4ohms) would 2 1 farad capacitors be enough?
i have one rf 1farad but i havent hooked it up yet
i havent hooked up the 500 w amp either
just wanting to fix the condition so it wont be a problem
and i knew that was coming when he said powered by ford...being a chevy guy(well i have a gmc---generic made chevy) i would have gotten mad if someone said i was a ford guy...ford...now thats a joke...

-Cody

Jstas

Geez! What's with the brand bigotry?

Aren't we all after the same goal here? No sense in fighting over opinions.

Remember, opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one it's just that some stink worse than others.

PoweredByDodge

sntnsupermen131 --> two 1 farad caps should be enough if you add a 2nd battery.

i put both of mine under the hood --- you'll find that the diesel engine ford/chevy/dodge trucks have two batteries... so if u go to th dealer and say you wanna buy the battery tray for the other side of the vehicle, they'll be able to get you one easily -- then just parallel power and ground under the hood.

you could put it in the tool box too, but you'd have to be sure it was secured / tied down very well and that you dont lay any stuff in the box that could bang against the battery.


--- and yes...lol... i would tow a nissan xterra before i'd buy a ford.

sntnsupermen131

on second thought i do have room under the hood
i have a storage box on the other side that i keep my jumpers in so all my friends with fords wont be left behind....lol
ill just take that out and put the other battery there...
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

friends dont let friends drive fords... or rotted out old hooptys that have 4 unmatched wheels and doors that are a different color than the "primer red" body.

sntnsupermen131

i need to get a bumper sticker that says that...
lol
-Cody