This is extremely interesting news
Comments
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Leave it to cfrizz to be the voice of reason on this topic.
You guys are crazy if you think:
a: the oil actually exists there
b: the oil is gonna be pumped by an American labor force which is at least 10x the cost of labor in most other countries that produce oil
c: that gas prices will eventually decrease as a result of this oil
d: that this apparent oil will save our economy in the short term.
It's a pipe dream, y'all (pun intended).
I dont' know about being THAT pessimistic and cynical, but ... this is something that has been around and KNOWN about for 50 years, and I have never once heard it talked about, despite the large amount of media coverage focused on oil production. So while I don't doubt that some day (in the future, certainly not too soon) this will be beneficial, I don't think it will have a drastic or even noticeable effect on.... well, anything. I'd love to be proven wrong, but... like I said, we've known about this for more than FIFTY YEARS, I haven't seen it stopping the growth of the middle east.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
According to what I have read, it wasn't until 2005 that it became economically wise for America to even start to consider this as an option. When not just one, but many oil companies came to our president and proposed that they could extract the oil from new technology for around $10.00/barrel, making the total price of the barrel $40-50 bucks then basically the drilling started and a rush was put on to finish the project to find out how much oil was actually down there.
So, basically yes. We have known about this for quite some time. However, until recently it hasn't been an option, but when the cost of extracting oil per ton becomes more profitable than extracting gold per ton then things change. The new technology with horizontal drilling and extracting has made what was in the past way too costly a reasonable cost effective reality today.
If we only started drilling in '07 [no mention of what quarter], then we have a lot of catching up to do. Drilling from this area is still in its infancy.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Leave it to cfrizz to be the voice of reason on this topic.
You guys are crazy if you think:
a: the oil actually exists there
b: the oil is gonna be pumped by an American labor force which is at least 10x the cost of labor in most other countries that produce oil
c: that gas prices will eventually decrease as a result of this oil
d: that this apparent oil will save our economy in the short term.
It's a pipe dream, y'all (pun intended).
Hmmm, I must be crazy then... We have land and mineral rights there, some of the property has been drilled and currently has production right now... If the rest of our acreage is as productive as this one is forecasted, we'll be bringing in between $5-$6K a month from royalties for the next 20-30 years. Looks like the crazy uncle was right when he told Exxon to drill there and they shrugged it off... Their loss, my ....
Even if our labor is 10x the cost, if you can produce it for less than you sell it for, you make money right? :eek:
The only thing I even closely agree with might be c and d. This volume will take years to bring online in significant amounts.
Again, I might actually pay a LITTLE more attention to the people actually doing it and are in the business than the internet jockey's.
There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin -
Again, I might actually pay a LITTLE more attention to the people actually doing it and are in the business than the internet jockey's.
Stop making sense and listen to the Internet! You should know by now that everyone on the Internet is always right! Geez! :rolleyes:
Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
Y'all are forgetting one MAJOR issue! The drilling, and harvesting ISN'T the problem, it's the lack of REFINERIES! Anybody remember the troubles Iran was having a few months back? All the oil in the world is useless unless......
No NEW refineries have been built in a LOOOONG time.
Thanks to the treehuggers!I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE! -
On oil profits. Yes the oil companies are making record profits....GROSS profits. Their profit margin is the same as its ever been. Roughly 7%. Less than what a bank or Avon makes. So if the oil companies only charged what it cost to produce the gas, it would only go down $.18 which would still be $3.10! On the other hand, the government makes $.60 a gallon. Whos gouging? Think of it like this. Say you make widgets. It costs you $5 to make them and you sell them for $7. You make $7 a widget gross and you net $2. Now say your production cost doubles to $10 and you sell them for $12. Wow! Your profits have nearly doubled you greedy corporate SOB. Oh but wait, youre still only making $2.
On supply. We havent built a new refinery or nuclear plant in this country for 30 freaking years!! Thats insane!! Our population has grown by leaps in bounds but we're still working off virtually the same energy supply! Now tack on the fact that China is about to surpass us as the world leading oil consumer with India gaining on us both fast and you have demand growing very fast but supply staying the same. Prices rise. Happens every time.
There is no fast fix for the high oil prices - we've let the hippies screw us over for too long but I can almost guarantee you that if we were to take all those hippies and lock them up in a storage container and drop it in the south Pacific then start drilling in ANWR, off the coast of Kalifornia and Gulf of Mexico and start in on this oil shale - within 5 years, gas would be down around $1 a gallon!
And lastly, as for getting oil from Arabs - we get most of our oil from Canada. 2nd most from Mexico and 3rd most from Russia. We dont get as much as people think from the mid east.polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
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What you don't realize is there is a very rare species of cockroach in that area which is a protected species, so we'll never be able to drill there anyway....:D
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Y'all are forgetting one MAJOR issue! The drilling, and harvesting ISN'T the problem, it's the lack of REFINERIES! Anybody remember the troubles Iran was having a few months back? All the oil in the world is useless unless......
No NEW refineries have been built in a LOOOONG time.
Thanks to the treehuggers!
Ding Ding Ding! Part of it is the tree huggers, but only part. It is also a matter of conveinience to the oil companies. It's a matter of supply and demand, right? Well if you "can't" supply the demand, prices stay elevated.
They don't want to build them. If they did, trust me, they would...
I'm sorry Mac. I have to disagree. Five years ago I was working in a refinery for a major company who shall remain nameless. Although I wasn't a direct employee, I was an oversight contractor, I got to hear an interesting little presentation which contradicts what they would like you to believe.
I just don't want to hear any **** about keeping it for strategic reserve. If the American public knew how much oil the government holds in the SR, I think there would be a revolt.
But Hey, a little revolution once in a while is a good thing... -
When demand goes down, price goes down
When supply goes up, price goes down
Unfortunately right now supply just took a huge hit, it is doubtful that you will see a decrease regardless of demand right now.
Amen!
Your first post is a good one. Supply and demand is so simple, yet the vast majority of the public don't want to accept this fundamental economic reality. Oil companies are very competitive. They would cut each other's throat to earn a nickle. If the can increase profit by taking their competitor's market, they will cut prices. There is no need to cut price when demand is high and the supply is tight.
As for the oil shale in the Western US and Canada. Engineer's have been talking about it for more than 50 years. It's just still to expensive, not to mention environmentally intrusive. It will eventually be harvested as crude oil is depleted. Again, it's a matter of supply and demand. One thing is certain, fossil fuels are limited. Eventually, the oil will all be gone, then the coal, then the oil shale, tar sands, etc.
Welcome to Club Polk!Carl -
Ding Ding Ding! Part of it is the tree huggers, but only part. It is also a matter of conveinience to the oil companies. It's a matter of supply and demand, right? Well if you "can't" supply the demand, prices stay elevated.
They don't want to build them. If they did, trust me, they would...
I'm sorry Mac. I have to disagree. Five years ago I was working in a refinery for a major company who shall remain nameless. Although I wasn't a direct employee, I was an oversight contractor, I got to hear an interesting little presentation which contradicts what they would like you to believe.
I just don't want to hear any **** about keeping it for strategic reserve. If the American public knew how much oil the government holds in the SR, I think there would be a revolt.
But Hey, a little revolution once in a while is a good thing...
Im gonna disagree with ya back bro. It doesnt make sense for the oil companies to all be in cahoots to keep supply down. Its the oil companies that found the ANWR reserve and the reserve in the Gulf of Mexico. Believe me, theyre chomping at the bit to get to all those billions of barrels of oil. The more supply they have, the more money they make.
Besides, everybody likes to think that Exxon is ruling the world but when you consider a large, LARGE part of people controlling oil is governments. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, Russia - these are countries that cant get a long with anybody. I dont buy that they are trying to wipe out the Jews but theyll join in a worldwide conspiracy with the "Great Satan" to keep oil prices high. That evil dictator in Iran isnt going to have a gentleman's agreement with the guys from Canada not to drill for any more oil.
Hell, these stupid hippies over here managed to get oil drilling banned from within 200 or so miles of Florida so Cuba decided since we're not going to use it, they will and are setting up drilling. China is also looking to get into the act to while we sit here letting a bunch of stinking tree huggers keep us from it.
Oil is a worldwide market and each country and company is out for themselves. The more oil Exxon finds and can drill for and can refine and get out on the market puts them that much further ahead of Shell. And the countries that depend on the money oil brings in to fund their dictatorships, isnt going to pass up a huge find somewhere.
This isnt a conspiracy people and it aint rocket surgery. Demand is skyrockettin and we've got gobs and gobs of supply that were flat out refusing to use because of the global warming hoax and all its fanatic moonbat believers.polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
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^^^+1! I really wish people would stop listening to "Man-Bear-Pig", he's an IDIOT!!!I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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Amen!
Your first post is a good one. Supply and demand is so simple, yet the vast majority of the public don't want to accept this fundamental economic reality. Oil companies are very competitive. They would cut each other's throat to earn a nickle. If the can increase profit by taking their competitor's market, they will cut prices. There is no need to cut price when demand is high and the supply is tight.
Well, you've articulated only part of the equation. Here's the other part --
If you are a multinational oil company, you have the ability to control the supply in tandem with a handful of other major oil companies. It's called "collusion." So if you control the supply, then you can manipulate the price. But first, you have to manipulate the minds of the consumer. Unfortunately, that's the easy part.HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
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Here's the Charles Osgood transcript I alluded to earlier
http://www.westwoodone.com/pg/jsp/osgood/transcript.jsp?pid=21624
UPS AND DOWNS AND FUEL PRICES.
The Osgood File...
Nobody loves oil companies, except their stockholders. And nobody feels sorry for the oil companies, because their profits are being squeezed right now, believe it or not. Refiners have cut back on gasoline production, because their costs are up while the demand is slightly down.
SOT - John Felmy, chief economist, American Petroleum Institute
"The market for gasoline is fairly soft, which means that you've seen crude oil costs go up more than the cost of gasoline. " (:07)
John Felmy is chief economist at the American Petroleum Institute.
SOT - John Felmy
"...So that even though the demand is soft, what that's translated into is a smaller increase for the price of gasoline than for the cost of crude oil." (:08)
Paradoxically, what causes high prices is low prices --- and what causes low prices is high prices --- as we shall see after this...
(SPOT)
The theory is that when something becomes too expensive, less of it will be bought, bringing the price down. Often, when the price of gasoline goes down --- which we like --- it's because of something we don't like...
SOT - John Felmy
"The last time we saw a decline in gasoline demand in the summer, when you've got peak driving, was in the summer of 1991 --- when we were experiencing a recession post the first Persian Gulf War." (:13)
It's not summer yet, of course. But already something is going on, says John Felmy.
SOT - John Felmy
"So far, we've seen evidence that consumers are starting to adjust to these higher prices. For example, the Department of Energy has had their estimated demand for gasoline down about 10 or 11 weeks in a row." (:12)
It may surprise you and me that at these prices the oil companies feel squeezed. But it doesn't surprise economists, especially economists for the oil companies like John Felmy.
Tell me, Mr. Felmy...
SOT - John Felmy
"What we're seeing now is the higher cost of manufacturing gasoline has been up significantly over the past year. And since crude oil is the most important of the cost of a gallon of gasoline, it's not surprising to see these changes in the market." (:14)
The Osgood File. Transcripts, podcasts and Mp3's of what you just heard are at theosgoodfile.com. I'm Charles Osgood on the CBS Radio Network.
The Osgood File. April 9th, 2008. -
Tony and Cathy:
You do understand that if big oil doesn't move on it, then small oil will and small oil will become big oil right? If small oil can move in and sell at $60, they'll do it. They won't be able to sell at $100 because they just increased supply.
Back in reality, this is great news for us: My wife and I have a lot of mineral rights through those areas (Gotta love forward looking geophysicists in the family!) In fact, we should start getting royalties from some production in SD in the next 6 months. This is already happening. There's also a lot of oil plays in "discovering" oil in pumped dried wells from the 50's and 60's. All of it is pretty cool
True,by that scenario,but you have to increase supply by a fairly good amount.Who's to say that they will release all of what they bring up to the open market? Like many others,I am hopefull this will be a good thing,but my brain says greed will trump in the end.HT SYSTEM-
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El Bumparoonie.....
For discussion only. No harm meant or done.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
For cross reference, check this thread. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67978~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Anybody ran across any new news concerning the Bakken foundation? Progress?~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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It has been declared a natural wildlife refuge...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I looked it up and found this... the most recent is there is enough oil there to be completely independent of foreign oil for 40 years...
http://scamsdaily.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/bakken-oil-field-in-montana-salvation-or-scam/The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
the most recent is there is enough oil there to be completely independent of foreign oil for 40 years...
Now, that's change I can believe in.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The billion dollars used up in the "cash for clunkers" could have gone into hiring those that are qualified and unemployed to study new technologies to extract this oil above and beyond the technologies currently available. Makes sense, right? Why isn't it happening?~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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It is interesting that this article refers to it as the Williston Basin and not the Bakken.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Now tack on the fact that China is about to surpass us as the world leading oil consumer with India gaining on us both fast and you have demand growing very fast but supply staying the same.
Since China is going to be the largest consumer of oil in the future, perhaps this will help us pay back all of the cash we are borrowing from them. They are already considering cutting us off because our economy ain't what it used to be."The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." Neil deGrasse Tyson.
