The Contrast Ratio game

Strong Bad

So I go into Best Buy yesterday to pick up a new release DVD and scoot over to the TV area to see whats what. I spot a new Samsung 52" LCD with an amazing picture on it, honestly, one of the best I've ever seen. They had a Bluray player connected and playing was that Penguin movie (that i've not seen). The picture was amazing!

So, the sales guy starts his sales spiel on it and winds up touting that it has a contrast ratio of 50,000:1. I'm thinking, yeah I've heard of that term. It's plastered on TV's and PC monitors, but what exactely does it mean. I wonder if he knew exactely what it means (I doubt it).

I found this link which explains it.

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/contrast-ratio.html


Enjoy!

Joe08867

50,000 to 1! What does the TV become a blackhole when there is a dark scene? I wonder if the difference between say 20,000 to 1 and 50,000 to 1 can really be seen easily.

Thanks for the link.

sabotg

I looked at LCD's recently at a bunch of different stores and 4 out of the 5 stores were playing that Surfs up penguin movie. I wonder if that movie looks really good on lCD's? Or is it just a cheap blu-ray disc to buy?

AndyGwis

Sounds like wpc ratings or any other specs manufacturers use to sell their gear. All numbers can be manipulated if there is no real standard for testing and publishing them.

Some 50wpc amps are more powerful than 110wpc receivers so I'm guessing a well made 15000:1 TV will look as good as some 50000:1 TVs.

Gaara

I still haven't seen a tv that can beat my XBR's blacks, I think its contrast ratio was 2000:1. I remember learning somewhere that the human eye has a dynamic range of about 200:1...

Oh well things will never change misinformed consumers will still spend money on specs over picture quality. Give me a tv that can properly reproduce grayscale over a 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio any day.

mulveling

Gaara wrote: »

I still haven't seen a tv that can beat my XBR's blacks, I think its contrast ratio was 2000:1. I remember learning somewhere that the human eye has a dynamic range of about 200:1...

Within the same scene, perhaps. That's akin to ANSI contrast ratio, which is very different from the on/off contrast ratios plastered all over these TV ads. The latter is akin to, and should be thought of as dynamic range, in much the same way dynamic range works in audio. The human eye can certainly discern way above 200:1 in that.

I haven't looked real close at HDTVs in a while, but the real test of on/off contrast is to watch a movie in a dark room (not a showroom)...in this situation even 2000:1 won't be adequate for some picky viewers, perhaps those used to CRT black. Though I've heard film itself doesn't get better than 2000:1, so that would have to be pretty picky. If you watch in a bright room, 2000:1 is going to be much more than adequate unless you've got stray light bouncing off the screen (LCD handles this situation best thanks to its polarizing filters).

Sami

No matter what the contrast ratio is, a digital set won't get to CRT levels when it's about black. 2000:1, if that is native, it's ok. Not great but it will do for most viewers. You have to remember there are two ratings, native and dynamic. Dynamic is achieved with "tricks" like dynamic iris and it's not a true contrast ratio.

Serendipity

IMO, the numbers are inflated. I haven't seen anything that comes close to a CRT projector or my XBR960 when it comes to contrast ratio...and like Gaara said, my XBR's contrast ratio is like 2000:1

Sami

You have to remember CRT's are a totally different ball game from digitals. With digitals you always have the bulb on so light is coming and the set is trying to block it from getting through on dark scenes. On CRT's, the default is a black screen, no light coming in. This is why even the best digital sets do not get anywhere close to black production, no matter what the contrast ratio is.

Jstas

Sami wrote: »

You have to remember CRT's are a totally different ball game from digitals. With digitals you always have the bulb on so light is coming and the set is trying to block it from getting through on dark scenes. On CRT's, the default is a black screen, no light coming in. This is why even the best digital sets do not get anywhere close to black production, no matter what the contrast ratio is.

DING!

This is the main reason I still have a Sony WEGA and will likely hold on to it until it doesn't work any longer. It may not be perfect for movies and HD content but it works great with video games where black levels can mean that a scene looks washed out or not.

Sami

With the newer digitals you don't really notice the lack of blacks unless you have a light controlled room and a very dark scene. They are fairly good. Acceptable enough to me to take the advantages digitals offer.

zingo

I've been searching around for a new LCD TV and haven't been paying too much attention to the advertised aspect ratio. I feel that they are inflated numbers, plus I tend to trust my eye more than printed numbers. Just like with audio, I think as long as you have purchased a quality product, and it looks (or sounds) good to you, you have a winner. Like Sami was saying, newer TV do have good black, not CRT black, but good black.

Sami

zingo wrote: »

Like Sami was saying, newer TV do have good black, not CRT black, but good black.

Some better than others. I opted to pay 40% more for my new projector than a similar one because its blacks were much better. It's still a big concern but if you haven't experienced CRT front projection on **** black room then you might not pay too much attention to it.

Black levels are a reason why my TV's are DLP and the new projector is one of the better black producing 1080p units out there (although it's an LCD).

billbillw

IMHO, Contrast ratios are worthless specs on TVs. I recently had my Panny plasma replaced under warranty with a newer model. The original model was rated 10,000:1, the new model only 5000:1. Does the new one look washed out or less bright? nope. It looks better in every way.
The number is really worthless without knowing what the lowest black level is.

On a side note, since so many are talking about how they would never give up their CRTs, I recently went from a CRT RPTV to my current SXRD RPTV. I'm perfectly happy with the blacks on the SXRD, even in a dark room. Although there is a bit of glow from a perfectly black screen, once an image is present, the blacks look solid, even with something like an outer space shot.

In addition, it goes much brighter has less black crush, improved shadow detail, and overall image detail is much improved. Now I can actually watch it during the daylight too.

MacLeod

That was probably Sammy's new LED light LCD tv. Supposed to be the best LCD on the market. Sound and Vision did a shootout between it and a 50" Pioneer Elite plasma this month. The Pioneer beat it pretty handily. Still, the picture is good enough that I dont think anybody would have many complaints.

One complaint I would have however is off angle viewing. The article stated that it was so narrow that when the 3 reviewers were sitting on the couch, the guys on the end got a noticeably worse picture than the guy in the center! They figured that in order for the set to get such great blacks they had to compromise on viewing angle (they gave a bunch of technical reasons but I cant remember them).

mulveling

MacLeod wrote: »

The article stated that it was so narrow that when the 3 reviewers were sitting on the couch, the guys on the end got a noticeably worse picture than the guy in the center! They figured that in order for the set to get such great blacks they had to compromise on viewing angle (they gave a bunch of technical reasons but I cant remember them).

Probably comes down to the panel type used. TN type panels are far more common, but S-IPS panels have better off-angle viewing and colors, supposedly at the expense of some contrast ratio. That Sammy sounds like a TN panel. Based on computer LCDs, the S-IPS on my iMac is so far superior to TN's in colors quality, that the small sacrifice in contrast is not an issue. The new Dell monitors in the office (TN) look like mud, in comparison, even after calibration. Plasmas have fantastic colors (save for occasional red push quirks) - CRT-like quality and much brighter. Pioneer Elites are the best of the bunch too...the Sammy LCD only had a chance in a BRIGHT room...even then, not really.