Do you think hobbies like audio help promote science in modern society?
Jstas
Posts: 14,806
It's a slow day at work. Day after a holiday, everyone is either off or comatose so very little is happening. Needless to say, I've been reading news stories.
I see a recurring trend in education commentary in this country that we don't focus on science enough. Kids buck the math and science classes because they are hard.
It was my experience in school that the classes weren't really hard but rather the professors more concerned with their own research and personal advancement viewed classes as a nuisance and did everything they could to keep their time in them short. So classes were boring, mind-numbing drone fests that did nothing but contradict the equally boring, mind-numbing drone fests that were the textbooks we had to fork over piles of money for.
Well, my most difficult classes were the calculus classes and my circuits classes because they relied heavily on the calculus to determine all kinds of fun things in circuits. The teachers were incredibly bright when it came to the work but they were so socially maladjusted that they lacked any kind of people skills whatsoever. So they couldn't relate and it made classes not only boring but difficult to solicit help because the teachers had a gruff attitude and seemed inconvenienced by undergrad students.
So there were a ton of students searching for even the most basic clue to give themselves an edge and a place to start to try and relate to the material and apply it. Since I was messing around with radio controlled cars and car audio for years before that and bugging my dad who had an electrical technician background, I learned alot about basic circuits. This gave me my edge because I was able to apply the ideas I had and saw in the RC cars, real cars and stereos to what I was looking at in the textbooks and it made things easier for me to understand. the class started clicking after I made that connection and I went from D's to B's. Of course the jerk professor took the credit but I was just glad to be making the grades.
So I think that stuff like audio hobbies and radio control car racing gave me an edge.
What do you think? Should more people be promoting the "nerdy" stuff to their kids or should everybody be living vicariously through their kids in the sports programs?
I see a recurring trend in education commentary in this country that we don't focus on science enough. Kids buck the math and science classes because they are hard.
It was my experience in school that the classes weren't really hard but rather the professors more concerned with their own research and personal advancement viewed classes as a nuisance and did everything they could to keep their time in them short. So classes were boring, mind-numbing drone fests that did nothing but contradict the equally boring, mind-numbing drone fests that were the textbooks we had to fork over piles of money for.
Well, my most difficult classes were the calculus classes and my circuits classes because they relied heavily on the calculus to determine all kinds of fun things in circuits. The teachers were incredibly bright when it came to the work but they were so socially maladjusted that they lacked any kind of people skills whatsoever. So they couldn't relate and it made classes not only boring but difficult to solicit help because the teachers had a gruff attitude and seemed inconvenienced by undergrad students.
So there were a ton of students searching for even the most basic clue to give themselves an edge and a place to start to try and relate to the material and apply it. Since I was messing around with radio controlled cars and car audio for years before that and bugging my dad who had an electrical technician background, I learned alot about basic circuits. This gave me my edge because I was able to apply the ideas I had and saw in the RC cars, real cars and stereos to what I was looking at in the textbooks and it made things easier for me to understand. the class started clicking after I made that connection and I went from D's to B's. Of course the jerk professor took the credit but I was just glad to be making the grades.
So I think that stuff like audio hobbies and radio control car racing gave me an edge.
What do you think? Should more people be promoting the "nerdy" stuff to their kids or should everybody be living vicariously through their kids in the sports programs?
Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
Post edited by Jstas on
Comments
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I think what you described is mainly an indictment against the American educational system. There's too much emphasis on book knowledge (which is mostly useless) and not enough emphasis on real world practical application of the material. Since you had a frame of reference, the book learning became "easier" and more interesting. European schools (and probably Asian ones, too) take a different approach to education that's more hands-on. Hopefully, Americans will begin to see the value of this approach.HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
No, as the current state of the hobby isn't terribly scientific, and those that take an objectivist approach tend to be so dogmatic as to essentially torpedo the scientific method themselves.
Good science depends on an open mind, leavened with the understanding of a well-controlled experimental approach to understanding why things are as they are.
When I am not spewing drivel on hi-fi forums, I am an analytical biochemist by trade, so I write with some confidence, if not authority :-) -
No. Folks just hand over the Visa/MC and bring the piece of equipment home. I doubt most even know what they're buying much less read the manual. I've learned not to ask questions.
Example #1. Coworker shows up to work all excited about a new HD TV he just purchased. "Sweet" I say and I continue with asking if it's 720P, 1080i, or 1080P and did he buy plasma, LCD, or DLP. I get a blank stare.
Example #2. Awhile ago, eons in fact, I'm at a friend of a friend's house. New receiver. I say "Sweet" like I normally do and ask if it does DTS. I get a blank stare. I look on the receiver and there's a sticker that says, "DTS". -
Sometimes, hobbies can spur interest in science.
But as often, it doesn't.
The problem is relating to math and science. Most teachers
can't do it. Physics is applied math. Pure and simple.
I had a science teacher in HS that had memorized huge
portions of trig tables. We asked him why. Turns out he had
been an artillery officer in WWII. His explaination,
"You have two choices, be quick, or be dead. The guy that dials in
the other guy first lives." There's some motivation for you."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Being an audiophile has definitely spurred me on mathematically and scientifically. It started when I got interested in high-end audio, then wanted to know how it worked. I started generally researching sound, some physics, and circuits. As I started getting more and more involved, I wanted to do more (build things, repair things, upgrade things, etc) and to do that I have to learn the knowledge to do that. So I picked up a physics of sound book, loudspeaker design book, and circuits book to teach myself. I coupled that with learning from my soon to be father-in-law who is an EE who also has a physics degree, and my scientific knowledge has gone way up. Granted, my knowledge is very different and specific than someone classically trained with an EE degree, but I also think I am different than the average people in that I already have a science degree, just in a different field. Regular consumers gain no knowledge in interacting with electronics or computers because they have no interest. They just want to watch the pretty picture or hear the pretty music and that is that. But someone who is truly interested in something, (and maybe sickly so
) might take the time to learn about what he/she owns, how it works, and may learn something from the process. -
No. There are too many credit card audiophiles and not enough enthusiasts these days.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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fatchowmein wrote: »No. Folks just hand over the Visa/MC and bring the piece of equipment home. I doubt most even know what they're buying much less read the manual. I've learned not to ask questions.
Example #1. Coworker shows up to work all excited about a new HD TV he just purchased. "Sweet" I say and I continue with asking if it's 720P, 1080i, or 1080P and did he buy plasma, LCD, or DLP. I get a blank stare.
Example #2. Awhile ago, eons in fact, I'm at a friend of a friend's house. New receiver. I say "Sweet" like I normally do and ask if it does DTS. I get a blank stare. I look on the receiver and there's a sticker that says, "DTS".
It's basically the opposite where I work....you bring up something technical, be it computers....audio...HDTV and you have 25 guys ( And a couple gals ) and you get a feeding frenzy pertaining to things like the particular characteristics of a specific firmware for a certain HDTV Sat receiver...etc
Of course we all have been techs for 20 years or more....but even the operators we talk to on the production line are a lot sharper then they used to be on technical topics. It used to be I couldnt hold a conversation with any of them while troubleshooting/repairing their machine....now I can talk HD with most of them , they may not be hip with actual electronics type talk but they know resolutions...technologies...etc well enough to make educated purchases.
Jstas...working nights I used to get off work in time on Saturday mornings to go race RC cars at the local college parking lot...both On-road and Off-road...my favorite was my Team Associated 10L on the Oval track....man that **** is addictive.The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club -
shadowofnight wrote: »Jstas...working nights I used to get off work in time on Saturday mornings to go race RC cars at the local college parking lot...both On-road and Off-road...my favorite was my Team Associated 10L on the Oval track....man that **** is addictive.
*derail*
Never did on-road. Just off-road. Had a JrXT and two Junior T's from Losi. I used to beat up on the RC10 trucks all the time. Some of them converted the trucks back to buggies and went racing in a different class to avoid the Junior T's all over the place. Not many people were running the Junior Two's.
I used to race at a few local shops with tracks. I wish there was still some place to run. I got drive about 40 minutes to get to a track now. Sucks.
*back on track*
dorokusai, there are people like that in every hobby. In the automotive world we call them "checkbook mechanics". They will always be there and they will always have "the best". But if you find your audio world populated by too many of that type, maybe you are hanging around the wrong circles to find the nerdy ones that would rather do for themselves than pay for it out of pocket.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
Sorry for a bit of a tangent, but one hobby that is almost exclusively die-hards and nerdy enthusiasts is HAM radio. I just went to a radio swap meet and event a few weeks ago and was WAAAY over my head.
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Not if the scientist takes his mind off work to ponder audio related topics instead of the work he is assigned.
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Sorry for a bit of a tangent, but one hobby that is almost exclusively die-hards and nerdy enthusiasts is HAM radio. I just went to a radio swap meet and event a few weeks ago and was WAAAY over my head.
That would be tech talk central. Old tech, new tech. Where else could
morse code and bouncing signals off the moon both be treated with the
same amount of enthusiasm."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
No. There are too many credit card audiophiles and not enough enthusiasts these days.
Amen brother.
Seen a lot of people right here go from seriously loving their BPC receivers to tubes/separates/vinyl/$$cables/walking the walk & talking the talk in less than a years time.
You missed the journey. And maybe the point. -
No, mostly people just hook together a group of components and see what they get. Those who do think about it normally get surprised with the results. The best systems I've ever put together were more or less the result of chance. Sure you can figure power and efficiency or speaker placement or clean signal paths but there are too many unknowns of specific component parameters to really put together a plan.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
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Nothin' beats listenin'.
