Got RTi10s and RTi4s - what next?

sanityclause

I saw everyone else piling on the extra cheap Rti10 sales and had to join in. I'm now the very happy owner of a pair of RTi10s up front, and RTi4s in the rear.

This is my setup:

• JVC 34WP84 HDTV
• Panasonic SA-HE70 Receiver
• Polk Rti10s in front, Rti4s in back with a Sony SS-CN15 in the center and a Sony SA-W10 sub
• Xbox 360 (via component/optical)
• Scientific Atlanta 8300HD digital cable box (via DVI/optical)
• Windows MCE 2005 in another room (I use the 360 extender)
• All speakers using pretty much the worst 20 guage wire you can imagine (it was free)

Things worth mentioning:

• Room is 14' x 11'
• Landlord lives downstairs, so massive bass is not currently the goal (the sub is fine as-is)
• Neither the TV nor reciever take HDMI, and the TV doesn't do 1080p
• Receiver doesn't support an external amp
• Music is as important as HT for the setup - opera (wife's a singer), jazz and indie rock are the usual

Already the Rti10s are a huge improvement (shocking, really) over what I had before, but I know I'm not getting anything near their best. I'm having to crank the receiver a bit higher on all my inputs to get them to wake up, and while it's good, I'm not blown away - I know it can all be better. It's not quite as lively as I was hoping for. These are the obvious steps I could take:

1. Get better speaker wire
2. Replace center with RTi-series match
3. Get new receiver that supports external amp
4. Get external amp
5. Eventually replace sub with something more musical/matching
6. ???

I'm just not sure if replacing the speaker wire makes sense while still using the likely under-powered reciever. Same for getting a RTi-3/5. Will making any one of these changes make a difference, or will they all (at least the first 3) have to happen at once to notice it. What do you think?

Sherardp

a few things come to mind with this upgrade path, 1) upgrade the receiver, which may not require adding an amp later on if it puts out well and makes those 10s and other speaks sound great while doing so. 2) upgrade the subwoofer, despite you saying bass is good enough, Im sure you're missing out on bass and LFE. I suggest, upgrade it anyway, however since youre in a condo, be courteous and watch the sub volume. 3) eventually you'll want that TV upgraded with the lastest 1080p/HDMI spec, do so at this time or whenever theres a killer deal you simply cant pass on. 4) By this time you've heard the 10s on just the AVR, want more detail then go for an amp.

rainman31

I would think upgraded the center channel to a csi 3 or csi5 or the newer model equivalent and to upgrade your speaker wire to at least 16 gauge. I would also recommend the onkyo 805 when fry's has it on sale for $699.

Parachoute

I would
(1) Change the wire (I just changed mine on Friday and, going from the worst to descent wire really makes a difference).
(2) I would grab a center that would match your 10s (csi3, csi5, csia4 or csia6)
(3) I would get a receiver with pre-amp output.

wizzy

Isn't that Panny one of the Class-D pannies everyone raved about? Not raved as in oh my god it's as good at my audiophile 2000 watt monoblocks, but as in for the money they're damn good?

Yes, get some new speaker wire.

If you're looking for good wire without spending a ton of money, you can buy Canare 4S11 by the foot for $1.04/foot from Markertek:

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=4S11FT&off=0&sort=prod&skuonly=0&search=4s11&pagesize=20

The direct link might not work, you may need to go to http://www.Markertek.com and search for 4s11

Steve

Sherardp

best bang for buck speaker cable, www.signalcable.com

sanityclause

Thanks for everyone's help! I'm convinced now to at least try some new speaker cable. One thing I didn't mention is that I'm in Canada, which means most good deals fall apart once shipping is taken into account (my last order of some $100 headphones had UPS asking for $80 once all the extra costs were added in). Considering I'm starting with the worst-of-the-worst, I'm tempted to see what the local surplus store has in stock, and buy some by the foot, before I sink a few hundred dollars into cables. I know both the Canare and Signal cables are great deals for what they are, but Markertek has a $100 minimum order to Canada, and the Signals would cost even more - I'll have to see what I can do locally, first.

While I think my Panny has done me very well for the last five years, I don't recall it being anything special. I think the Class-Ds might have been the XR series, like the SA-XR55. But while it's been fine, I can definitely see the SA-HE70's shortcomings - no video switching, only 2 optical in, no DVI/HDMI, no pre-amp out, no banana plug connectors..

I'd like to do better, but even on sale, after shipping the Onkyo 805 is probably not in my budget. Is there another model that hits a sweet spot somewhere below $500? I see Onkyo and H/K are mentioned a lot by RTi-series owners - are there any cheapskates like me who think they've done well?

As for the centre channel, this $130 CSi3 at J&R will be around $220 delivered my door, so I'm trying to balance that against this used CSi5, which is $285 delivered. I can't guess whether the difference is actually worth $65.

Even with everthing that's working against them, I continue to be impressed with the 10s, as they seem to be opening up a little every night.

wizzy

It's very likely you can find Canare 4S11 by the foot from a Canadian supplier.

Go to Canare's website and find dealers in Canada and start calling them

sanityclause

Blue Jeans cable didn't have a minimum order and ships by USPS which is a *huge* savings in brokerage fees (and shipping for that matter). I bought enough 4S11 for the three 8 foot cables for the front speakers, so I'll see how that goes before spending more on the longer rears.

After reading a few sites, I'm planning on just going with the bare wires, rather than terminating them. There were enough convincing arguments that adding extra connections just increased the failure points at an increased cost. So my question is, by buying a 4 strand cable, should I bother bi-wiring the RTi10s? Both channels would each be twisted together at the receiver end, so will it make a difference to have them split out into the bi-wire config at the speaker end?

wizzy

Cool. I think using bare 4s11 is a great idea ...

Since the wire has two of each side (two for + two for -) you will be bi-wiring to start with.

Unless you want to experiment with adding larger/small gauge. I think you're fine using the 4s11 with nothing else, but to each their own

Smock_Dobie

Hello, this is my first post in this forum and I too purchased a set of RTi10's. I am agonizing over the proper center channel. I spoke to a guy at Fry's (I don't consider them experts, but they know a little more about the Polk line than I do) and he was of the impression that the RTi10's would drown out the CSi3 as a center channel and recommended the CSi5, even though they had none to sell. Since they had none to sell, it gave a bit of credence to what he was saying.

So, along the same lines of this thread, would RTi10's drown out a CSi3? Would I be better off going with a used CSi5 (they are difficult to find new at this point) or an RTi A6?

And one more question that hopefully generates discussion on the topic, would a PSW303 suffer the same alledged drown out to the RTi10's?

The plan is to use a Denon 3808CI for a home theater system.


Thanks, and good luck to Sanity Clause



Dobie

CAvolleyballguy

my csi5 makes me very happy... it's frikin awesome.

Imperitor

Smock_Dobie wrote: »

So, along the same lines of this thread, would RTi10's drown out a CSi3? Would I be better off going with a used CSi5 (they are difficult to find new at this point) or an RTi A6?

I have a CSi3 with RTi10's and it doesn't get drowned out. The CSi5 will sound a little better but you shouldn't have any problem using a CSi3.

I assume you mean the CSI A6 since there is no RTi A6. If you choose to go with the CSi5 or A6, I would take the CSi5 if you can still get it. From what I hear the A6 is identical to the CSi5 except for a new cabinet design and a large price difference.

Smock_Dobie wrote: »

And one more question that hopefully generates discussion on the topic, would a PSW303 suffer the same alledged drown out to the RTi10's?

No, the PSW303 will play the low frequencies and the RTi10 will play the mid-high. The woofers on the RTi10's cannot play frequencies as low as the PSW303 plays.

Smock_Dobie

Ya, sorry, the CSi A6 is definately what I meant. I had RTi on the brain...

Also, I realized the RTi10's would not go into the low's like a sub, I was just speaking about sheer volume. But then again, I do'nt know a ton about speakers. I've read that music rarely goes below 40hz but movies do so I want a sub that will handle movies.

The 303 is on clearance/sale for $139 at Amazon or $159 at J&R music. Is the 303 a 'great deal' at those prices? Or should I just turn my nose up at it and get something like the DSW500?

My friend tells me that I shouldn't 'skimp' on the Center or the Sub, urging me to spend equivilent $$ to what I spent on Fronts (RTi10's - $650 freighted to my front door). That would mean the CSi A6 and something like the DSW500.

thoughts? Also, I will prolly round this out with the FXi A6 rears. I already have new R50's for the surrounds (7.1 - I hastily bought them (Fry's clearance) and once I was in, I realized I wanted better speakers for the front R/L).

None of this would be an issue if I could find a CSi5, dangit...Who is hoarding all the leftover CSi5's?!?!?!?!

sanityclause

Thanks Smock Dobie! I'm looking for the CSi5s as well, and it's really challenging finding them. I guess places that sell used stuff like craigslist and audiogon might be our best bet.

I haven't got my speaker wire yet, but I'm really curious if it will make a noticeable difference. I had to laugh at this article that says a bunch of audiophiles couldn't tell monster cable from a coat hanger: http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables

Thanks for the PM CAvolleyballguy. I haven't hit my 10 post count yet, so I can't reply. As you can see above, I opted for the Canare 4S11 wire, but I'm sure the monoprice stuff would have also made a difference over what I've got now. It's good to see they also use USPS to Canada - though the shipping costs as much as the cable!

I'm pretty committed to finding the CSi5, but after that I may stop for a while - at least until I find a good deal on the right AVR/Amp. Still not entirely sure what that is..