Oil change question

Jstas

Kinetic wrote: »

Oil: 10W40 with MOSS

This is not a good idea. Unless your car specifically calls for a 10W-40, you shouldn't use it. 10W-40 is an older weight designation for a heavier oil left over from the smogger days. It works well in warmer climates because it never gets cold enough to get too thick or gel up and become ineffective.

However, new vehicles have engines built to much higher tolerances than 30 years ago. The require oils like 10W-30 at the minimum but most run 5W-30 or 5W-20 and some even call for a 0W-30 or 0W-20. These oils are much thinner but have similar viscosity tolerances. Since the newer engines are tighter, you need a thin oil like a 20 weight to squeeze in between the moving parts and lubricate them effectively. If you use a weight that is too thick, the oil is incapable of being able to easily flow into the tighter tolerances. No oil in between the moving parts, they wear out and those tolerances get wider and you can end up with things like valve taps and rod knocks which will eventually fail.

Use the oil temperature and weight designation the manufacturer of your vehicle recommends. As much as you or some snake oil salesman thinks they know about engines, I'm sure the guy who designed yours knows much, much more.

heiney9

Jstas wrote: »

Use the oil temperature and weight designation the manufacturer of your vehicle recommends. As much as you or some snake oil salesman thinks they know about engines, I'm sure the guy who designed yours knows much, much more.

+1,000,000.

m00npie

audiobliss wrote: »

Does anybody purposely use CL-4 or CL-4PLUS oil in their vehicles? In the engine class I'm taking at school, it was mentioned how those two are the only oils on the market now that are somehow getting away with still having zinc in them.

I do, I do if you meant CI-4 or CI-4Plus. I have never heard of CL-4

Shell Rotella T 5W-40 for my Diesel Jetta. It's the only oil I have ever used for it and I can buy it at Wal-Mart. It's about $16-20 a gallon, depending if I'm buying it in NY or PA.

Lasareath wrote: »

I always wanted to get my oil changed and then go back the next day and change it again and see how dirty it was.

Diesels will turn new oil jet black within a minute of an oil change. All gasoline cars I have ever owned will stay clean for a while after an oil change.

Jstas

Ugh. Oil doesn't turn black because it's dirty. It has paraffin in it which is a type of wax that gives oil it's slippery properties and maintain viscosity. It is one of the first things to break down. It is also one of the components that gives motor oil it's brown color when new and fresh. When the oil goes through even just one heat cycle, the paraffin turns black. It turns black because that's what it does when it goes through the heat cycle.

Yes, some of the darker colors are due to dirty and oil does get dirty quickly because the detergents in the oil are meant to clean off old deposits of the worn out paraffin and other such viscosity agents. It also cleans off varnish and such from the solvents in the oil. The new oil gets dirty quickly because the new detergents are very effective at cleaning when fresh and the take all the dirt, grime and crude off the lubricated parts and suspend them in the oil. The anti-sludging agents keep the funk suspended and when the funk chunks get big enough, the oil filter traps them.

Diesel oil gets dirty quickly because of all the soot, otherwise known as carbon, that comes out of the oil burners. It's every where and since in the U.S. diesel oils have a high sulfur content, alot of the soot comes from the reactions of sulfur with the other compounds. Just because the oil is black doesn't mean it isn't any good.

MikeC78

Jstas wrote: »

Use the oil temperature and weight designation the manufacturer of your vehicle recommends. As much as you or some snake oil salesman thinks they know about engines, I'm sure the guy who designed yours knows much, much more.

I agree to a point, however, the oil weight designation by the manufacturer plays a big role with the fuel economy ratings more than protection. If thicker oil is used, the fuel economy will drop, not necessarily the protection being served.

Kinetic

Jstas wrote: »

This is not a good idea. Unless your car specifically calls for a 10W-40, you shouldn't use it. 10W-40 is an older weight designation for a heavier oil left over from the smogger days. It works well in warmer climates because it never gets cold enough to get too thick or gel up and become ineffective.

However, new vehicles have engines built to much higher tolerances than 30 years ago. The require oils like 10W-30 at the minimum but most run 5W-30 or 5W-20 and some even call for a 0W-30 or 0W-20. These oils are much thinner but have similar viscosity tolerances. Since the newer engines are tighter, you need a thin oil like a 20 weight to squeeze in between the moving parts and lubricate them effectively. If you use a weight that is too thick, the oil is incapable of being able to easily flow into the tighter tolerances. No oil in between the moving parts, they wear out and those tolerances get wider and you can end up with things like valve taps and rod knocks which will eventually fail.

Use the oil temperature and weight designation the manufacturer of your vehicle recommends. As much as you or some snake oil salesman thinks they know about engines, I'm sure the guy who designed yours knows much, much more.

you are right, i was thinking in mexicos weather.

there are a lot of oil types.

http://www.liqui-moly.de/web/lmhomeus.nsf/pages/index_produkte

there is a 0W40, 5W40 etc...

we use this oil for racing and it is awesome...

also: ENEOS and REDLINE are awesome oil brands

http://www.eneos.us/

http://www.redlineoil.com/

Kinetic

here is the US contact

West Coast:
Lubro Moly
Gary Boyd
1820 Clark Avenue
USA-00000 Long Beach, CA 90815
United States
Tel. 001 562 5975519
Fax 001 562 5975269
mail: glb90815@yahoo.com


East Coast
Lubro Moly
Tim Riordan
43 Spyglass Landing Dr.
USA-00000 Marshfield, MA 02050
United States
Tel. 001 781 536 8327
Fax 001 781 536 8327
mail: scit-tim@comcast.net

Face

I forgot to add earlier, I use German Castrol Synthetic 0-30 in my C5.

heiney9

Kinetic wrote: »

you are right, i was thinking in mexicos weather.

there are a lot of oil types.

http://www.liqui-moly.de/web/lmhomeus.nsf/pages/index_produkte

there is a 0W40, 5W40 etc...

we use this oil for racing and it is awesome...

also: ENEOS and REDLINE are awesome oil brands

http://www.eneos.us/

http://www.redlineoil.com/

I currently use some Redline products and they are top notch and top price. I used the oil for awhile, but it's just too damn expensive. I use the fuel additive every couple months and I swear by the synthetic tranny fluid.

H9

Kinetic

heiney9 wrote: »

I currently use some Redline products and they are top notch and top price. I used the oil for awhile, but it's just too damn expensive. I use the fuel additive every couple months and I swear by the synthetic tranny fluid.

H9

well liquy moly and ENEOS are better

MacLeod

I used Mobil 1 with a Mobil 1 filter in the last 4 cars I owned but I never kept any of them longer than 3-5 years so I essentially wasted a lot of money with a $40 oil change every 3000 miles. I dont think that there is a difference between conventional and synthetic in the first 150,000 miles. Now 200,000+ and the benefits of synthetics become apparent.

With my new Honda I decided that since I dont plan on keeping it for 400,000 miles Im simply going to the dealer and let them service it. I also have the oil life meter but I could NEVER drive 7000 miles between oil changes. I take mine in every 3000 miles.

I believe that nowadays oil and car makers are offering high quality stuff and if youre one that is only going to put 150,000 miles max on your car, conventional oil willl work just fine. Now if I had a sweet ride like John's I would plan on keeping that thing til the cows come home and for that I would use Mobil 1 again.

Kinetic

MacLeod wrote: »

I used Mobil 1 with a Mobil 1 filter in the last 4 cars I owned but I never kept any of them longer than 3-5 years so I essentially wasted a lot of money with a $40 oil change every 3000 miles. I dont think that there is a difference between conventional and synthetic in the first 150,000 miles. Now 200,000+ and the benefits of synthetics become apparent.

With my new Honda I decided that since I dont plan on keeping it for 400,000 miles Im simply going to the dealer and let them service it. I also have the oil life meter but I could NEVER drive 7000 miles between oil changes. I take mine in every 3000 miles.

I believe that nowadays oil and car makers are offering high quality stuff and if youre one that is only going to put 150,000 miles max on your car, conventional oil willl work just fine. Now if I had a sweet ride like John's I would plan on keeping that thing til the cows come home and for that I would use Mobil 1 again.

wise words, and also the Honda Oil, is one of the best ive tried, it comes with Molybdenum, like the liqui moly

Molybdenum is a nice antifriction aditive.

pentavolvo

Mobile 1 Synthetic in the Vette change it once a year in the spring (doesnt see a ton of miles)

Lexus ES330 every 5k regular 5w30

The rest of the fleet every 3k or so 5w30

HB27

I change oil regularly at 2,500-3,500 miles with Castrol Syntec. Oil breaks down and acids are actually created as the oils age. This leads to deterioted and leaky gaskets. Keeping regular service leads to a long and healthy life for your vehicle and helps keep emissions down.
I usually get 200,000 miles + out of my work vehicles and they're usually still running quiet and smooth when I sell them. My old Toyota van has 289,000 on it now. Last year I gave it to a friend who's still driving it and it still doesn't use or leak any oil. My vehicles always rust out before they quit running.
HB

heiney9

HB27 wrote: »

I. Oil breaks down and acids are actually created as the oils age. This leads to deterioted and leaky gaskets. Keeping regular service leads to a long and healthy life for your vehicle and helps keep emissions down.

This can be true for non 100% synthetics and this doesn't happen if you change your oil at recommended intervals. The only exception is extreme use whether it be extreme cold, heat or extreme racing conditions.

All oils are excellent nowadays but they need to be changed at reasonable intervals to ensure they are completely 100 % effective. Synthetic is more resistant to shearing and thermal breakdown and should allow you to extend you oil changes. Filter technology is where people should be spending their time researching because all filters are NOT the same.

H9

McLoki

I change it every 5,000 miles.

300c gets Pennzoil Platinum (purchase it at walmart and take it in to the chrysler dealer. They provide the filter and use my oil. Total charge is about $7 (plus the price of the oil)

Crown Vic gets it every 5,000 miles and it is changed at the local ford dealership ($17.00) They use the ford motorcraft oil (it is semi-synthetic). I mainly use it for highway miles so it really does not matter much.

Tahoe gets it when ever it comes up and tells us to change the oil. (it has an oil life meter) We currently just let the dealer change it. Since we purchased it with over 100,000 miles on it, I did not want to chance synthetic starting any leaks so I just use regular oil. I end up changing it about once per year.

So far - everything is good, but the mileage on all of them (except the tahoe) is pretty low so I would not expect any oil related issues yet.

Michael

Early B.

I need to purchase synthetic oil for my car and I want to buy the best stuff out there. Are there quality differences among brands or does it really matter for general, everyday driving?

Thanks.

exalted512

I've always heard thats Amsoil is among the best you'd put into your daily driver.
-Cody

Jstas

Mobil 1 and AMSOIL were top of the heap for a while. But Mobil 1 went to a lower quality base to start with and now they are on the same scale as a Castrol or Quaker State synthetic. Not bad at all but not the best either.

AMSOIL still uses a high quality base. I forget what the designations are off hand but I know AMSOIL, Royal Purple, Redline and a few other smaller names still start out with the highest quality base, I think the number is 4? Anyway, it's the base level that is used for making aviation lubricants. Mobil 1 used to use it but they stepped down to a level 3 base to make things less expensive.

I've been using AMSOIL in my truck since the owner's manual said I could switch to a full synthetic and I've been very pleased. The Ford mechanics that have serviced teh truck have asked what I used and how often I change it because there are minimal signs of wear and I just broke 98,000 miles this morning.

heiney9

Early B. wrote: »

I need to purchase synthetic oil for my car and I want to buy the best stuff out there. Are there quality differences among brands or does it really matter for general, everyday driving?

Thanks.

What you need to do is find out what specification your auto manufacturer recommends. Then look at oil brands that have formulations to meet that specification.

Since I'm familiar with VW they have a certain spec that needs to be met (501.0 or 502.0) and that can change based on the year the car was manufactured and obviously the type of engine (4cyl, 4cyl turbo; 6 cyl; diesel, etc.). Not all blends across the same oil brand meet the same manufacturer specifications.

I have always used Mobil 1 synthetic with the approved auto manufacturer spec. The only M1 formulation that meets my (VW) spec is 5w-40 or straight 40 weight.

Amsoil, Royal Purple, M1, Redline are all premium brands that I think you'll find are always touted as the best. It's more important to use an oil that meets manufacturer specs than it is to buy the most expensive and best reviewed brand.

The key is to find both.

H9

McLoki

For forums of oil analysis and guys who think WAY to much about oil in gerenal, check out this forum:

Bob is the oil Guy

Very informative, but it would be better with an occasional cable debate...

Michael

MacLeod

I think, just like in audio, eventually you get to a point that although you can improve it wont make much difference in the real world. Its been my experience that all the top brand synthetics (Mobil 1, Amsoil, Penzoil etc) are all top notch and unless youre wanting to get 1,000,000 miles out of your engine, I doubt there would be a difference in them.

Personally I prefer and used Mobil 1 for over a decade and swear by it but since Ive never kept a car longer than 90,000 miles Ive since switched back to conventional.

riker1384

I would just follow my manual. It really depends on your driving style. If you do a lot of short trips, especially in winter, then you tend to get water and other contaminants in your oil, that don't burn off because the engine never really gets hot. That's horrible for the car, and if that's what you do all the time then you might want to follow the sever-service schedule.

If you do all highway miles, then that doesn't happen so much. You can follow the regular service interval. I wouldn't think about using synthetic and extended intervals unless I was doing mostly highway miles. Either that, or if the car requires synthetic and was designed for it. Synthetic is also good in really cold weather, or in some high-performance engines.

raggadiman

I use Mobil 1 and go 5k...My BMW has a computer that tells me when to change it based on driving style and mileage. Now IF I paid attention to that I would only be changing every 15k. THAT'S CRAZY!!! A friend of mine at the dealership told me of a man that came in with engine problems in a 5 series. When they tore it down the inside of the motor was black and gummy with oil galleries completely plugged. He asked the owner how often he changed his oil and the reply was, "When the computer says it's time." Nuff said!;)

McLoki

I pay so much in Gas to fill up my car anymore every 300 miles or so - paying an extra $25 bucks (or so) for synthetic oil every 5,000 miles just does not seem like a point worth arguing about...

black magic

raggadiman wrote: »

I use Mobil 1 and go 5k...My BMW has a computer that tells me when to change it based on driving style and mileage. Now IF I paid attention to that I would only be changing every 15k. THAT'S CRAZY!!! A friend of mine at the dealership told me of a man that came in with engine problems in a 5 series. When they tore it down the inside of the motor was black and gummy with oil galleries completely plugged. He asked the owner how often he changed his oil and the reply was, "When the computer says it's time." Nuff said!;)

Thats ridiculous, I can't believe they recommend that. My brother drives the 335i and he told me that the dealership tells him to change his oil every 24,000km. Thats the most insane thing I've ever heard... at least when it comes to changing your oil!

Sami

The last time I took my BMW for an oil change, it was $250. For sure I won't do that every 3k miles.

black magic

Sami wrote: »

The last time I took my BMW for an oil change, it was $250. For sure I won't do that every 3k miles.

If you lease one, you won't have to pay... at least thats how it is up here.

Sami

black magic wrote: »

If you lease one, you won't have to pay... at least thats how it is up here.

Yeah, but leases are a rip-off. Free maintenance and bumper to bumper warranty for 5y/100k miles for the 7-series, but my 5 years just ran out. $750 for brake service, each, not both rear and front. $88 for parts online, rear and front, I'm doing it myself today, and I'll be changing the oil too.

black magic

Damn... $750?! Thats insane! Definitely not worth it if you ask me.

I'd do it myself as well. Good luck!