Building a 10 foot wheelchair ramp @ San Francisco City Hall....$1.1 million!!!

Danny Tse

You think real estate in San Francisco is expensive?? From the San Francisco Chronicle....

Where else but San Francisco City Hall could a 10-foot-long wheelchair ramp wind up costing $1 million?

Thanks to a maze of bureaucratic indecision and historic restrictions, taxpayers may shell out $100,000 per foot to make the Board of Supervisors president's perch in the historic chambers accessible to the disabled.

What's more, the little remodel job that planners first thought would take three months has stretched into more than four years - and will probably mean the supervisors will have to move out of their hallowed hall for five months while the work is done.

"It's crazy," admits Susan Mizner, director of the mayor's Office on Disability. "But this is just the price of doing business in a historic building."

Supervisor Jake McGoldrick said Tuesday that the issue went to the heart of liberal guilt that often drives the city's decision making. He also choked on the price tag, and asked that the board take some more time to come up with an alternative, like maybe just getting rid of the president's elevated seat.

The root of the problem dates back to when City Hall got a $300 million makeover in the 1990s that made just about every hallway, bathroom and office accessible to the disabled. The exception was the board president's podium, which is reachable only for someone who can climb the five steps from the chamber floor.

The understanding was that the room would eventually be made fully accessible. But no one worried about the podium until 2004 when Supervisor Michela Alioto-Pier, who uses a wheelchair, joined the board.

City architect Tony Irons and representatives of the state Office of Historic Preservation - which had to be consulted to make sure the city was sensitive to the building's designation as a state landmark - were called in to take measurements.

Then preservation architects from the San Francisco firm Page and Turnbill worked up no fewer than 18 design options - at a cost of $98,000 - with ideas ranging from an electric lift to abandoning the president's lordly podium altogether.

No one could decide which design to use, so after a year of arguing, the Department of Public Works was ordered to make 3-D computer models of all the options.

The ramp won, which means lowering the president's desk, which means eliminating three of the "historic" stairs and tearing out Manchurian oak panels that are no longer available, which in turn will mean finding a historically correct replacement.

And because the ramp was going to encroach on the room's sound equipment, officials decided they might as well use the opportunity to upgrade the board chamber's entire audio-visual system, to the tune of $300,000.

Here's what else is going into the million-dollar ramp:

-- $77,000 for the city's Bureau of Architecture project manager, design and construction fees.

-- $455,000 for the actual construction, plus asbestos removal.

-- $28,000 for a construction scheduling consultant.

-- $3,500 for an electrical consultant.

-- $68,000 for the Bureau of Construction Management to oversee the construction and various consultants.

-- $12,000 for Department of Technology and Information Services oversight.

-- $16,500 for permits and fees. (Yes, believe it or not, the city charges itself.)

-- And as much as $65,000 for bid overruns.

All for a total of: $1,123,000.

And counting.

The supervisors considered signing off on the work Tuesday but put it over for another week. Even if the board gives its final blessing, however, construction of the ramp won't be completed before the end of the year - midway through Alioto-Pier's second and final term.

"I deserve equal access to every part of the chamber," Alioto-Pier told her colleagues, adding that ending discrimination is worth the $1 million.

Go to the comments below....some are quite funny

obieone

Yeah, but I bet that ramp doesn't KILL anybody, unlike a certain public works project in the greater Boston area, that was $8,000,000,000.00 overbudget!:rolleyes:

bobman1235

obieone wrote: »

Yeah, but I bet that ramp doesn't KILL anybody, unlike a certain public works project in the greater Boston area, that was $8,000,000,000.00 overbudget!:rolleyes:

You're comparing the Big Dig, one of the largest engineering tasks ever undertaken, something that took 20 years, to building a handicap ramp, that a group of retarded monkeys could slap together in an afternoon?

Interesting.

Don't get me wrong, the Big Dig was a colossal overbudget mess, but... no comparison here.

F1nut

So, Supervisor Michela Alioto-Pier wants access to the board president's podium, but she's not the president, so she's got no business at the podium. I mean WTF is wrong with her??? Selfish ****!

devani

nice...our tax money at work...

jgido759

NJ would inflate that about 10 times! :eek:

If they want to perserve the architecture and make minimal changes, why don't they just add one of those wheelchair lifts? It's ONLY 5 steps high.

Oh, my bad, they turned down the electric lift.

devani

jgido759 wrote: »

NJ would inflate that about 10 times! :eek:

That's why it will cost $8 to cross to NY....:mad::mad:
$20 tolls to JFK airport....

Jstas

Hey, it's free to get IN to New Jersey but if you wanna leave, you gotta pay!

steveinaz

It's Kalifornia, they'll just tax the smoker's more to fund it, relax.

venomclan

LOL, Is no one accountable?

What will really piss you guys off is that I just learned that it was illeagle for the U.S. government to negotiate prices of drugs with pharmecutical companies. So if they say a pill is $3000, that is what they pay. :eek:

Are you ^&*^%$ kidding me!
Venom

jwhitakr

Gotta love bureaucracy at its finest!!!

The best comment after the article:

vitez wrote:
She should ride a donkey. The animal would be able to negotiate almost anything, and it would be a wonderful companion to boot.
Posted 2/27/2008 7:08:30 AM

Face

venomclan wrote: »

LOL, Is no one accountable?

What will really piss you guys off is that I just learned that it was illeagle for the U.S. government to negotiate prices of drugs with pharmecutical companies. So if they say a pill is $3000, that is what they pay. :eek:

Are you ^&*^%$ kidding me!
Venom

That's why some hospitals buy from overseas.

madmax

That is enough money to hire a helper at $40K a year to wait there all day in case a disabled person must access the area for the next two decades.

Danny Tse

madmax wrote: »

That is enough money to hire a helper at $40K a year to wait there all day in case a disabled person must access the area for the next two decades.

What are you trying to do?? Introduce logic into government dealings??

Oh, I suppose I should mentioned that the City also give its fired head of the Public Ultilities Commission a $400K severance package last month.

Perhaps the City can raise the money by ticketing its own cars for parking violations, such as this one I took in SF Chinatown last Thursday night....

steveinaz

A helper at $40k a year? This is Cali brother, a janitor makes $185,000 year. It's the only way he can pay $2500 a month on his 600 square foot apartment. LOL!

PolkThug

For 1.1 million I'd expect to see a few more amenities.

This is it

WTF

devani

steveinaz wrote: »

A helper at $40k a year? This is Cali brother, a janitor makes $185,000 year. It's the only way he can pay $2500 a month on his 600 square foot apartment. LOL!

That's what new yorkers pay..:D

bobman1235

PolkThug wrote: »

For 1.1 million I'd expect to see a few more amenities.

This is it

WTF

:eek: Wow.

I think society needs a reboot.

Jstas

PolkThug wrote: »

For 1.1 million I'd expect to see a few more amenities.

This is it

WTF

Aww but it looks so pretty!

madmax

For 1.1 million I'd expect a transporter type deal like used in star trek. A ramp like in the pic could be built for under $1K.

Face

Here is her contact info:

http://www.sfgov.org/site/bdsupvrs_index.asp?id=45879

City Hall
1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place, Room 244
San Francisco, Ca 94102-4689
(415) 554-7752 - voice
(415) 554-7843 - fax
Michela.Alioto-Pier@sfgov.org

MillerLiteScott

I just built a Handicap ramp that was @ 24 lf inside a single garage bay so a a persons who had a stroke and is now going in for knee surgery could be wheeled into the house while she recovered.

Total Cost less than $ 2,100.00 American dollars.

tx_polkhead

A few times a year I volunteer with a group called Dallas Ramps (www.dallasramps.org) We build a wheelchair ramp for homebound people. It's all simple carpentry and we usually knock out a ramp in 3-4 hours, with donated lumber, hardware and volunteer labor, the cost is around $200 per ramp. People can have the city build a ramp that cost taxpayers $4000-5000, with a waiting list of a few years!

hockeyboy

TX why don't you offer to go build that ramp for half the price. I sent the lady an email suggesting she hire somebody to wait there the next 20 years for a disabled person to show up instead of building a ramp. It will be funny to see if I get a response.

CAvolleyballguy

venomclan wrote: »

LOL, Is no one accountable?

What will really piss you guys off is that I just learned that it was illeagle for the U.S. government to negotiate prices of drugs with pharmecutical companies. So if they say a pill is $3000, that is what they pay. :eek:

Are you ^&*^%$ kidding me!
Venom

Since i'm in the drug business and work for a big bad pharma company... I had to comment..

actually the government gets the automatic lowest price or the company gets fined big dollars. If a company is found to have given better deals to large prescription plans than to govt. plans people involved go to jail and the company pays... happened with a couple companies. Tap pharma had to pay 800 million in 2000 I think in anti kickback violations (the name the law falls under) and top execs involved in the backroom deal to give the health plans better deals than the govt. went to jail.

so you tell me... in a capital environment even though a huge plan will give more business to us is it fair that we have to give the lowest price to every govt. plan? even small ones that dont generate any volume...hmm.. probably yes just because we get to live free..

but... if you are on a govt plan medicaid etc. they get the lowest price... so if an anti-viral therapy cost 50 grand even on a medicaid plan, (yes they are that expensive) then that's the best price you are going to find for that drug.
You want to be able to tell a company what they can charge for a Drug?
How about if I come down to your business and tell you what you can charge me for your service. You can... it's called a competitive capital country. Dont like my price go buy someone elses.. oh we are the only one with the product you need...gues what, you're going pay... just like you pay for your SIGNAL CABLE.

There are probably a lot of business owners on this board... So they will appreciate this, but Until you check out the size of some of these factories, the equipment being used and the rigorous, and I MEAN RIGOROUS quality control processes in place you wouldn't believe how much is spent on R&D. 2/3's of revenue at some companies goes back into R&D. These big companies need to make billions on a new drug because the cost of operation is so huge. A lot of our biggest pharma companies are dying off. They are all cutting sales forces and closing manufacturing facilities... It is going to have a direct impact on the quality of products to come out in the years ahead, and the PRICE... The prices will go up even higher for the better meds. The truth is the laws that allowed generics to come in, actually ended up hurting us, because these big companies are now closing doors. The billion dollar products are going generic and these companies are losing their life source to provide future research which is now suffering and will continue to suffer... Leading biotech companies like Amgen, and pharma co's like Wyeth, Pfizer are all downsizing. They already have.

I'll tell you it's real easy to **** about health care & compare to other countries... Be happy with what you got. There is no comparison to other countries. You want a free MRI in another country, get on the list and wait six months. You want a free antibiotic, here's some penicillin, think that's gonna work on todays bugs. It gets frustrating. especially on a board like this. You'll pay thousands and thousands (and tens of thousands) of dollars for audio equipment but **** at the cost of your heart meds...The only reason you have those meds is because the company that developed it, made money selling you something else. The magic govt drug fairy didnt just show up one day and drop it on our door step and now we are over charging everyone...

What's even better, I never and I MEAN I NEVER hear anyone **** about the cost of their VIAGRA and those are one of the most expensive pills out there.

but that's just my opinion, i could be wrong..

devani

OP posted this because of inefficiency of society....I think that's what venom is complaining about...the actual cost of the ramp is no where near in million dollars....he's saying same for the pills we have to buy....

the Pill you make factors in the RD and other costs(NR and overhead) considered and that's true for the ramp they are building and your speakers and mine.....

but the ramp is just idiotic in every single way....no wonder US is losing work to other countries(our taxes are being worked in India)

CAvolleyballguy

i definitely understand the point of the OP and I agree the ramp fiasco is ridiculous. but venom was villainizing the big bad pharma companies just a little bit...

and yes I concede the point that the actual cost to manufacture some of the meds is pennies per pill, some meds (new selective cancer drugs are very expensive to make). I sold a med that cost 120 per month, basically 3 dollars a pill. It generates 1 billion per year for the company. It costs only 4.5 cents to manufacture when done on a massive scale, but... like i stated above, the enourmous cost of development of the drug was almost 3 billion. by the time the drug got to market it only had a 7 year patent protection. The company will generate a 4 billion profit when all is said and done. That particular product is considered a failure. It took too long to get to market, losing several years of valuable selling time, it didnt generate as many sales as they had hoped, and ultimately didnt pull in enough money to keep the company afloat to develop another... This company has been slashing jobs for the past two years and continues downsizing.

The point is there are a lot of villians out there stealing money from us through the govt that go unchecked without competition (think Lockheed Martin and the rest of the military industrial complex) politicians can point their finger at the pharma companies and say there's the bad guy because you have to pay your own dollars out of pockets for the drugs, it's a weapon of mass distraction to keep people from the truth..if you calculated dollars out of pocket including tax dollars and pie charted where the money goes, a huge chunk would go to the defense companies that dont even deliver products, just R&D.. our tax dollars keeping their R&D afloat... how is that competitive... ok im done.

Face

Someone should wheel her right into the Pacific.

hockeyboy

Here we are assuming someone needs those pills. We can safely say they will most likely never elect a disabled president to go up that ramp and it will NEVER even be used!

Danny Tse

It's ONLY $450,000 now :mad:

The Associated Press
Posted: 09/29/2010 06:26:10 AM PDT
Updated: 09/29/2010 06:26:10 AM PDT

SAN FRANCISCO—After years of debate, the Board of Supervisors chamber at San Francisco's City Hall could soon be wheelchair-accessible.

The board voted 9-1 on Tuesday in favor of a design plan for a $450,000 wheelchair ramp connecting to the chamber's president's podium. The San Francisco Examiner reports that the podium would also be lowered.

The board rejected a similar plan in 2008, objecting to what at the time was a $1 million price tag. That prompted angry words from Mayor Gavin Newsom and Supervisor Michela Alioto-Pier, who uses a wheelchair. Alioto-Pier threatened to sue, and Newsom vowed to get the ramp built before he left office.

No one currently uses the president's podium. Supervisor Chris Daly, who cast the lone dissenting vote, said he would prefer keeping the podium out of use.

So, 2 1/2 years later and a lousy ramp can't even be build.

messiah

It's stuff like this that makes me want to vomit. :mad: