Sa...cd?

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  • VXR8
    VXR8 Posts: 291
    edited March 2008
    I have the Oppo DV-980H and yes it does pass both SACD and DVD-A through HDMI (into a Marantz SR-8001). This currently is the only Oppo player that will do this - the other good thing though on this player is that you also have the option of 7.1 output via analogue cables, if you aren't HDMI 1.2a compliant.
    Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,093
    edited March 2008
    heiney9 wrote: »
    How does one type in a straight jacket? Vinyl is hi Rez? WTF? That is almost quote worthy if it was coming from anyone but a very disturbed artist who obviously can't get his work heard by a major label and decides to rant on our forum about it.

    Actually, vinyl is the ultimate in high resolution. Infinite sampling.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,238
    edited March 2008
    Infinite sampling, yes. Top end high resolution compared to SACD? No. Vinyl comes out with a little bit left out.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,217
    edited March 2008
    TroyD wrote: »
    Actually, vinyl is the ultimate in high resolution. Infinite sampling.

    BDT

    Yep, didn't think of it that way. Digital is just a "sampling" of the analog wave form.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2008
    DesertPilot wrote: »
    translating that data in to sound is the job of the DAC (digital to analog converter). If you want your player to do this job then you have to make a "quality" decision in your purchase. Players all have DACs from various manufacturers and the marketing claims are all over the place in how well they function.
    Agreed the DAC section and to an even greater extent the analog output stage following the DAC's have a bigger influence on sound than the transport.If you have a player with a top notch DAC and analog stages and you hook it up via HDMI to a reciever with inferior DAC and analog stages sound quality will be degraded.

    Regarding standard DVD sound.The spec for DVD-V (not DVD Audio) is 24bit/96k PCM which is much higher rez than redbooks 16k/44.1k.In fact I believe before SACD and DVD-A came to market Chesky and a few others released audio only material on DVD that IIRC they called DAD for Digital Audio Disc.These discs claimed full 24/96k PCM resolution and were playable on any DVD player.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • Yashu
    Yashu Posts: 772
    edited March 2008
    Vinyl is hi Rez? WTF?

    You have got to be joking. Completely analog playback with information up to, and over, ~0-45khz... per channel. Another format would be tape. Considering that music was mastered on tape for decades and a good reel to reel can easily out-perform a CD, and even a vinyl record. Reel to reel was not practical as far as a format that would take to wide (CD-like) saturation... it is costly to reproduce good tape on large scales, but the vinyl record... now there is a high resolution format right there. It is about as open as you can get, analog, basically easy artist access (you can even make dub plates for really cheap, but they won't play too many times, then again, they don't need to), but SACDs 5,100 titles seems kindof, well, lets just say, if it can't even out sell vinyl in 2008, then you can consider it to be a dying format. I am not saying that what you already own will become useless, but it would not be right to recommend investing into SACDs and players.

    I am surprised that everyone is so accepting of HDMI... Not only are you guys advocating closed formats controlled entirely by megacorps, but you are advocating a digital wiring system that requires connecting devices be approved by the Recording/Movie industry associations? I want to pull a Hillary and say shame on you... but that would be validating that fembot, so I will just leave you to draw your own conclusions. Call me a bleeding heart liberal, but I don't think I will ever get why people are so willing to give up their rights as consumers in the USA. It is fascinating, really. You are actually paying very wealthy people to treat you like a criminal and take away your fair use rights, giving corporate entities, something that isn't even human, more rights than flesh and blood.
    Regarding standard DVD sound.The spec for DVD-V (not DVD Audio) is 24bit/96k PCM which is much higher rez than redbooks 16k/44.1k.In fact I believe before SACD and DVD-A came to market Chesky and a few others released audio only material on DVD that IIRC they called DAD for Digital Audio Disc.These discs claimed full 24/96k PCM resolution and were playable on any DVD player.

    This is what I was saying earlier. I have many albums that include high resolution, sometimes multichannel, companion DVDs. Knowing that what I said was true, just like I said, we had a format already, so SACD, DVD-A, we didn't need it. It was pure greed.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,803
    edited March 2008
    However, vinyl and tape can't compare to SACD/CD's dynamic range and linear frequency response, not to mention the total lack of ticks, pops and for the most part, tape hiss. So, who's joking?

    Vinyl? Open format, easy artist access? News flash genius, your computer can't make LP's. No, you have to have a pressing plant do that, just like SACD. Now, you can make a copy of an LP to tape or even a CD, but you can't make another LP. Perhaps not as open and easy as you make it out to be, eh!?!

    Another news flash, without the record companies paying the artists, producing and manufacturing the SACD's, CD's, LP's, etc., distributing them and all the other stuff they do so that the general public can enjoy music in their home there would be a severe shortage of music in folks homes. For all that, they have a right to make money.

    I love your example of the number one "selling" artist or whatever it was you said. Do you think they could have done what they did if they hadn't "made it" first by having their music plastered all over the world by a major record label for years? Hell no! You're a dreamer at best, but definitely a bleeding heart liberal.

    I highly recommend investing into SACDs and players, if for no other reason than to piss you off.

    Audio DVD is NOT a hi-rez format, period. Hell, there's CD players that upsample to 24/192 and above, it's still not hi-rez.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,238
    edited March 2008
    F1nut wrote:
    I highly recommend investing into SACDs and players, if for no other reason than to piss you off.
    F**k that. I recommend them for sound. End result.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,093
    edited March 2008
    Doesn't every one have a vinyl stamper connected to thier PC?

    I'm still trying to figger out Yashu's business model. Ok, and artist or group records thier music onto a digitial format. How is it distributed? Through peer to peer filesharing. Ok. I have on question, since we have now vanquished all of those pesky record companies...how the f*ck does the band get paid? Since the files are downloaded and shared at will, for free. How do these bands get any sort of exposure, since we don't have record companies promoting them? There are any number of good bands laboring in obscurity because they can't get the exposure.

    In fact, many artists LIKE the idea that you can't pirate thier music because they don't get paid when you do that.

    Crackpot.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2008
    Yashu wrote: »
    Knowing that what I said was true, just like I said, we had a format already, so SACD, DVD-A, we didn't need it. It was pure greed.
    I disagree,both formats were developed to push the state of the art in digital recording and playback even further, which they both did but did'nt find wide acceptance.
    F1nut wrote: »

    Audio DVD is NOT a hi-rez format, period.
    While not to the level of SACD and DVD-A at its highest sample rate (192k)I think that DVD-V's 24/96 spec qualifies it as hi rez.
    Hell, there's CD players that upsample to 24/192 and above, it's still not hi-rez.
    But the data on the disc is limited to 16/44.1k.Therefore the upsampling process is just trying to fill in the missing pieces.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited March 2008
    well, on the upside Yashu apparently has access to very good smoking materials.

    Crackpot?? seems the crack has widened to a canyon.

    I have well over 100 SACD in my collection and add more all the time, they sound awesome and can outperform vinyl recordings. Why the hell would any audio hobbiest discourage someone from buying awesome music???
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited March 2008
    . Why the hell would any audio hobbiest discourage someone from buying awesome music???[/QUOTE] from RT1


    Excellent point sir,,,I hope some of you are getting this,, you know who you are.
    :cool:
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • vonnie123
    vonnie123 Posts: 326
    edited March 2008
    SACD is a beautiful thing. Just picked up David Bowie Let's Dance. I certainly enjoyed it. Although I only have about 25 SACD recordings, they are a joy to listen to. I also have about the same number of DVD-A recordings. I find the SACD to be smoother, although that is an unscientific opinion solely on my listening taste.
    [
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  • Yashu
    Yashu Posts: 772
    edited March 2008
    I can get a dub plate made for peanuts, so it almost like having a record lathe on my PC. Vinyl actually isn't very hard to make either, there are many places that will press for low prices, so it's not just acetate that you can get made.

    Anyway, like I said, SACD=closed format. End of story. Enjoy your "charted" pop crap if you must, but it's really a moral issue here... I want musicians to keep making music for many years to come, and since the major labels aren't the driving force in the industry anymore, it would be nice if ANYONE could get on the high resolution digital train... oh wait, they can't, just Sony approved titles. That really sounds like a great system to me, having a mega corporation tell me what is worth hearing. :rolleyes: I am surprised it doesn't make you listen to an un-skippable FBI copyright warning before beginning each album.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,093
    edited March 2008
    Another sense-free post brought to you by Yashu.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • MGPK
    MGPK Posts: 88
    edited March 2008
    You know Yashu, you keep on telling everyone to not endorse Sony by boycotting their products and to not by SACD's, let me ask you this question: Do you buy CD's of your many favorite genres? Because if you do, you have openly proclaimed yourself to be a hypocrite. BTW, SACD rocks.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,093
    edited March 2008
    well the thing that REALLY sticks out is that it isn't mainstream material being released on SACD. Most of what I buy is classical and that ain't exactly mainstream.

    Eh, he's just another chucklehead.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,803
    edited March 2008
    For sh!ts and giggles I had to look up shoegaze. Here's what I found.
    Shoegazing is a genre of alternative rock that emerged from the United Kingdom in the late 1980s. It lasted until the mid 1990s, peaking circa 1990 to 1991.

    The British music press (notably NME and Melody Maker) called this genre "shoegazing" because the musicians in these bands often maintained a motionless performing style, standing on stage and staring at the floor while playing their instruments; hence, the idea that they were gazing at their shoes. The shoegazing sound featured extensive use of guitar effects, and indistinguishable vocal melodies that blended into the creative noise of the guitars. Few shoegazers were dynamic performers or interesting interviewees, which prevented them from breaking through into markets in the United States.

    Perhaps a case of boring is as boring does.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,093
    edited March 2008
    Gee, I wonder why THAT particular craze never caught on?

    Sounds about as cool as beating off with a cheese grater.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,803
    edited March 2008
    It was all Sony's fault, don't ya know.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,093
    edited March 2008
    Well, they did corner the cheese grater market.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,803
    edited March 2008
    Yeah, but the Italian's have the cheese.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,093
    edited March 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah, but the Italian's have the cheese.

    So, in a nutshell, we are f*ked all the way around.

    But I can get a machine and make my own grater.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,803
    edited March 2008
    Not to worry BDT, the shoegaze boys have plenty of toe cheese.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,019
    edited March 2008
    TroyD wrote: »
    Gee, I wonder why THAT particular craze never caught on?

    Sounds about as cool as beating off with a cheese grater.

    BDT

    Hey...don't knock it till ya try it baby!!:p:)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,803
    edited March 2008
    And yet another reason why DSD is superior to any form of PCM. The high data rate process used in DSD avoids the quantization errors inherent in the PCM process used for the traditional CD and DVD.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • bbeacham
    bbeacham Posts: 141
    edited March 2008
    I just purchased and listened to the SACD version of "Dark Side of The Moon" last night and was amazed. If there was ever a recording that was made for multi-channel sound this is it.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited March 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    And yet another reason why DSD is superior to any form of PCM. The high data rate process used in DSD avoids the quantization errors inherent in the PCM process used for the traditional CD and DVD.

    In this case the saying "its a million(s)" times better is actually correct.

    whats more pungent toe cheese or crotch crap?

    RT1
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,803
    edited March 2008
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    In this case the saying "its a million(s)" times better is actually correct.

    whats more pungent toe cheese or crotch crap?

    RT1

    Why, yes it is.


    I think we need to conduct a poll on that one.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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