Getting DD 5.1 from cable...

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  • MrNightly
    MrNightly Posts: 3,370
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    OK, Try this, it really WILL work.
    Run a pair of RCA type cables from the Box to the AVR.
    The dolby signal will be decoded after it reaches the AVR if you tell the AVR to play it back that way. It's really very simple and will save you another trip to the local merchant.
    You will get 5.1 sound.
    Don't make it more complex than it has to be.

    This doesn't make sense to me. I have a set of RCA (White/Red) cables running from the Cablebox to the AVR... but they don't run into a digital input... so how can they possibly decode it as DD?

    I don't think I'm trying to make anything complex, but the digital code isn't being sent... only the analog. And my AVR is set to receive coax1 as digital... what else is there to set?!

    Thanks.
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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    They don't have to run into a digital input to order to decode 5.1 sound. Set you sound source to wherever you have the input plugged into and tell the receiver to play it as 5.1
    If you having problems, it might be in the set up in the AVR. I run a pair of RCA cable from my DTV Box into my H-K and I get Dolby 5.1 from this set up. It's an analog set up but the Dolby Signal in set into the Broadcast Mix. So, I'm guessing that you are asking the AVR to decode a analog signal using digital inputs, that might not work. You have to decode the 5.1 sound from the analog signal that is Already there. Since you are asking the AVR to decode digital signals, it doesn't see them. The AVR is seeing Stereo Analog Signals and the Stereo Analog Signals Do Have 5.1 Dolby encoded into them. You just have to set up the AVR to decode them.

    I hope this helps.
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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    What inputs are the RCA jacks plugged into?
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  • Acadian
    Acadian Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    I don't get it either...are you saying instead of Digital 5.1, we can get Analog 5.1?

    I just hooked up two RCA (left-right cables) from my cable box to my AVR and i only get left and right sound. AVR is set to straight.
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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    Don't set the AVR to Straight, set it the Dolby that you want to decode.
    When you set the AVR to Straight, it see's a straight Stereo Signal.
    You have to set it to what you want it to decode by telling it to play back in dolby.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    No you don't, the 5.1 signal is already encoded into the mix, you just have to hook up your equipment right and decode it.

    not on analog audio signal from standard def over the air TV. maybe cable is differnent. but i'd be really surprised if a standard def cable signal carried DD 5.1 audio. if it's a digital signal it may..
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  • Acadian
    Acadian Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    Now i'm really lost...lol. Shouldn't the AVR detect the 5.1 when set to straight?

    Anyway, there's no button that lets me select DD5.1....i can get Pro logic, etc. by pressing buttons.

    I must be missing buttons lol.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    They don't have to run into a digital input to order to decode 5.1 sound. Set you sound source to wherever you have the input plugged into and tell the receiver to play it as 5.1
    If you having problems, it might be in the set up in the AVR. I run a pair of RCA cable from my DTV Box into my H-K and I get Dolby 5.1 from this set up. It's an analog set up but the Dolby Signal in set into the Broadcast Mix. So, I'm guessing that you are asking the AVR to decode a analog signal using digital inputs, that might not work. You have to decode the 5.1 sound from the analog signal that is Already there. Since you are asking the AVR to decode digital signals, it doesn't see them. The AVR is seeing Stereo Analog Signals and the Stereo Analog Signals Do Have 5.1 Dolby encoded into them. You just have to set up the AVR to decode them.

    I hope this helps.



    analog bandwidth isn't wide enough to carry 5.1 channels of audio. that's why HDTV was invented.. you may have it working for you, but I am still in doubt.

    left and right RCA's can not carry 5.1 channels of audio..
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  • MrNightly
    MrNightly Posts: 3,370
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    They don't have to run into a digital input to order to decode 5.1 sound. Set you sound source to wherever you have the input plugged into and tell the receiver to play it as 5.1
    If you having problems, it might be in the set up in the AVR. I run a pair of RCA cable from my DTV Box into my H-K and I get Dolby 5.1 from this set up. It's an analog set up but the Dolby Signal in set into the Broadcast Mix. So, I'm guessing that you are asking the AVR to decode a analog signal using digital inputs, that might not work. You have to decode the 5.1 sound from the analog signal that is Already there. Since you are asking the AVR to decode digital signals, it doesn't see them. The AVR is seeing Stereo Analog Signals and the Stereo Analog Signals Do Have 5.1 Dolby encoded into them. You just have to set up the AVR to decode them.

    I hope this helps.

    I don't even know what/how to set something to Straight... I think that my Time Warner Cable just doesn't send a DD signal. Your way of using the RCA cables didn't work at all... just plays it in analog Dolby Prologic sound.

    I can not get my AVR to 1) Recognize the Digital signal from the cable or 2) There is no digital signal being sent.

    I have read all the pages in my manual again, and I just can't find it. I'm leaning toward it being the Cablebox. I think it needs to be a HDBox to get the 5.1 signal.

    Again, that's what I am thinking.
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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    I'm not familiar with your equipment. So I don't know how it sets up.
    I do know that 5.1 sound is embedded into broadcast signals and until you set the AVR to decode them you won't get playback that way. Forget using optical and digital inputs, cause this is not how you are trying playback of dolby. You are trying to learn how to get your equipment to decode 5.1 sound from the Standard Stereo input going into the receiver.
    All I am telling you, is that the 5.1 sound is already there and you must figure out how to extract it.
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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    MrNightly wrote: »

    I can not get my AVR to 1) Recognize the Digital signal from the cable or 2) There is no digital signal being sent.

    Exactly! It's Not a digital signal. It's analog coming from the cable box but it has coding embedded into it for dolby 5.1 sound. Now time for More Thinking.
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  • MrNightly
    MrNightly Posts: 3,370
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    I'm not familiar with your equipment. So I don't know how it sets up.
    I do know that 5.1 sound is embedded into broadcast signals and until you set the AVR to decode them you won't get playback that way. Forget using optical and digital inputs, cause this is not how you are trying playback of dolby. You are trying to learn how to get your equipment to decode 5.1 sound from the Standard Stereo input going into the receiver.
    All I am telling you, is that the 5.1 sound is already there and you must figure out how to extract it.

    It's alright man... thanks for the effort.

    I think i'm out of options right now... there isn't anything in my manual on how to take an analog signal and decode it as a Digital signal. It should be as straight forward as running a Dig coax cable from the Cablebox to the AVR, selecting the AVR settings to play it as digital and then enjoying the show. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work.

    Anybody have a Denon 3805?! And know how to do this?! :D

    Thanks
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    Stuff...

    RTi12's - front
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    FXi3's - surrounds
    RTi4's - surrounds
    SVS PB12-NSD/2 - sub :D:D:D
    Denon 3805
    Rotel RB-985 5-Channel Amplifier

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  • MrNightly
    MrNightly Posts: 3,370
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    Exactly! It's Not a digital signal. It's analog coming from the cable box but it has coding embedded into it for dolby 5.1 sound. Now time for More Thinking.

    Since it's almost game time, I will just settle for 5 channel prologic sound for the game!

    Unless you come up with something ground breaking here ;)
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    Stuff...

    RTi12's - front
    CSi5 - center
    FXi3's - surrounds
    RTi4's - surrounds
    SVS PB12-NSD/2 - sub :D:D:D
    Denon 3805
    Rotel RB-985 5-Channel Amplifier

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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    can you get the to decode into DPL II ?
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  • MrNightly
    MrNightly Posts: 3,370
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    can you get the to decode into DPL II ?

    Yes, because that is an analog signal.
    Honoured to be, an original SOPA founding member
    Stuff...

    RTi12's - front
    CSi5 - center
    FXi3's - surrounds
    RTi4's - surrounds
    SVS PB12-NSD/2 - sub :D:D:D
    Denon 3805
    Rotel RB-985 5-Channel Amplifier

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  • MrNightly
    MrNightly Posts: 3,370
    edited February 2008
    Not that anyone really has the time to look into this... but for the judge... here is the manual
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    Stuff...

    RTi12's - front
    CSi5 - center
    FXi3's - surrounds
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    Denon 3805
    Rotel RB-985 5-Channel Amplifier

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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    Watch the game in the DPL II mode, I think you'll find it to be pretty good.
    A lot better than the TV speakers.
    And uh, Go Pats!
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited February 2008
    The Judge wrote: »
    I explained to you in a post how to get 5.1 from a broadcast. Coax cable hook ups are the Worst way to get sound and picture. When the sound signals are sent for broadcast they have DD 5.1 encoded onto the Stereo Signal, That is why you want to use RCA jacks and Not the coax cable.

    There are so many things wrong with this statement, I don't even know where to start to explain it all.
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  • mark090852
    mark090852 Posts: 996
    edited February 2008
    phuz wrote: »
    There are so many things wrong with this statement, I don't even know where to start to explain it all.

    I agree with you, Phuz. I'm fixing Sunday dinner for the family and running back and forth between the stove and computer trying to figure out how to explain it correctly with links to info to back it up but I just can't take the time.

    I certainly don't want to come across as a "know it all" since I still consider myself a newbe to HT and audio but what Judge is saying just can't be right. By definition Dolby Digital is digital. It is not present in the left or right analog stereo channels. For tv it must come from a digital converter box via optical out or digital coax out or HDMI. As far as I know there are no other options. Maybe Judge is confusing regular coax cable inputs and outputs to what we are referring to as digital coax out.
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,055
    edited February 2008
    no matter how you hook it up you can't get DD5.1 out of a cassette deck. You need an HDbox in order to get 5.1 sound, you can get digitial sound but it will never be 5.1. it will be PLII.
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  • The Judge
    The Judge Posts: 60
    edited February 2008
    Maybe I misspoke, Excuse me. Nonetheless, 5.1 sound is possible with the analog broadcast signals. It's not Dolby Digital because you are not using Digital Inputs, Here is a partial chart from Crutchfield.com

    Surround format Number of channels Types of channels Type of media with which the format may be used
    Dolby® Pro Logic® 4

    * 2 discrete, full-bandwidth channels (front left and right)
    * 1 matrixed, full-bandwidth channel (center)
    * 1 matrixed, limited-bandwidth channel (surround left and right)



    * stereo and Dolby Surround-encoded VHS movies and broadcast TV programs
    * can be downconverted from any Dolby Digital source

    Dolby Pro Logic II 5.1

    * 2 discrete, full-bandwidth channels (front left and right)
    * 3 matrixed, full-bandwidth channels (center, surround left and right)
    * 1 subwoofer channel via Pro Logic II's bass management



    * stereo and Dolby Surround-encoded VHS movies and broadcast TV programs
    * stereo music
    * some video games

    Dolby Digital up to 5.1

    * 5 discrete, full-bandwidth channels (front left and right, center, surround left and right)
    * 1 discrete LFE channel (subwoofer)



    * all DVDs
    * some broadcast HDTV
    * some satellite and cable TV
    * some video games

    DTS® 5.1

    * 5 discrete, full-bandwidth channels (front left and right, center, surround left and right)
    * 1 discrete LFE channel (subwoofer)



    * some DVDs are DTS-encoded
    * some CDs are DTS-encoded


    While it may be a "Matrixed" 5.1 signal, it's a whole lot better than watching it in stereo and it's encoded into the broadcast signal just as I said.

    When we are all able to afford HD TV and all the goodies that go with it, we won't have such worries as how to set up analog signals for 5.1 sound.

    I'm not trying to be a "know it all" I am just trying to help out a guy so he can watch the game in surround sound.

    Go Pats!
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited February 2008
    Willow wrote: »
    no matter how you hook it up you can't get DD5.1 out of a cassette deck. You need an HDbox in order to get 5.1 sound, you can get digitial sound but it will never be 5.1. it will be PLII.

    You do not need HD to get 5.1. 5.1DD was around long before HD and I have non-HD cable boxes that give me DD 5.1.

    Your cable provider will have to be sending a DD signal, which in the guide should be shown with a "DD" symbol. If you have a "setup" option for the cable box (Comcast has Menu=>Setup) go into the Audio setup and make sure you have audio output set correctly. For my Comcast box I need to choose "Matrix" instead of "Stereo".

    As far as setting your receiver to "straight", well, not all receivers have that option. But if yours does, that'd work just fine. If the input is 5.1 then "straight" will send each signal to the designated speaker. Either use "straight" or some sort of "Dolby Digital" mode on your receiver. I'd think your receiver would also show you, graphically, what type of signal it is receiving.

    Good luck.
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,055
    edited February 2008
    tcrossma wrote: »
    You do not need HD to get 5.1. 5.1DD was around long before HD and I have non-HD cable boxes that give me DD 5.1.
    .


    This I know, I am talking about how cable providers have set it up. I had a digbox and it never gave DD5.1. It was not until I got the HDbox that I was able to receive DD5.1.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,990
    edited February 2008
    Willow wrote: »
    This I know, I am talking about how cable providers have set it up. I had a digbox and it never gave DD5.1. It was not until I got the HDbox that I was able to receive DD5.1.

    Da da......YES.At least with comcast it was that way.You need a optical cable from the cable box to the receiver.Receiver set to dd,not direct,as I believe the direct is a 2 channel mode that passes the signal without any processing.If your cable box doesn't have a spot for an optical cable,you won't get DD out of it.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,990
    edited February 2008
    Acadian wrote: »
    I don't get it either...are you saying instead of Digital 5.1, we can get Analog 5.1?

    I just hooked up two RCA (left-right cables) from my cable box to my AVR and i only get left and right sound. AVR is set to straight.

    Thats why,2 cables,2 speakers with sound.Does the box have preouts for all 5 channels or a spot for an optical cable?Set the avr to dd too.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2008
    my non HD cable box has optical out to my pre amp.. that best audio it gives me. is DPLII no DD 5.1, none.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,990
    edited February 2008
    I guess every cable co. varies a bit.I do know if you get the hd box,DD is a gimme.
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    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
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    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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