Electrical options....advice please....

treitz3

I have been working on getting an unwanted noise upon powering up out of my rig for some time now. It is a buzz in the higher frequencies. Constant, unwaivering and always present thru the tweeters whether or not the entire rig is hooked up. We eliminated it down to the pre, the amp and a set of speakers.

Trust me when I say that every conceivable test has been done to eliminate this unwanted noise. Pages and pages and pages and novels have been written on another forum I hang out on. It's not the gear either. All components and literally everything has been replaced 2 and 3 times over and the noise has gotten better with higher end gear, but it is still there. FYI, it used to be noticeable from across the room.

On Monday, Russ [lightman1] who is a state certified electrician and Chuck [stereo_luver] came over for a little mini-mini Polk gathering. After a couple of beers and tunes, we got to talking about this problem that's been plaguing my system and decided to put in a dedicated line [temporary, but still dedicated].

End result. Noise STILL [insert every cuss word imaginable here] present. :mad:

So, here's my question. Since obviously I have bad electricity coming into the house and no amount of filtering, conditioning, dedicated grounds or dedicated lines will get rid of this noise......What can I do to eliminate it?

Have any of you encountered this situation before and if so, how did you overcome it?

nms

What can I do to eliminate it?

Some HUGE F**KING capacitors?

I get a slight buzz in my tweeters when powered up, but not when powered off.

So even if your speakers aren't wired up you get a buzz? Dude, you may have discovered a new source of energy!

I-SIG

How is your AM radio reception?

Wes

treitz3

I don't know. I don't run with a tuna anymore.

Oh, I misspoke nms. Good catch. Editing now.

Systems

If the noise is riding on the AC then maybe try a power conditioner that utilises "Balanced power".It will have an isolation transformer that inputs 120 VAC and outputs a + and - 60 VAC.Balanced units can sometimes deal with noise issues that regular conditioners can't.It may be worth a try.

The noise is there even with the system off or disconnected?That is some strange s**t that.

treitz3

Cool. Any suggestions? Thanks.

GV, I misspoke and I was correcting the 1st post as you were editing. My apologies. Hey, I would like to point out that this noise is not a hum in the lower frequencies or your typical ground-loop sound, it's a buzz in the higher frequencies that is constant upon powering the rig up. If I turn the pre off, the noise increases.

ALSO; I can not put up an isolated transformer as I live in a townhouse with the world's most anal HOA.

Systems

treitz3 wrote: »

Cool. Any suggestions? Thanks.

http://www.b-p-t.com/products.shtml I think these guys are the most affordable.
Equitech is the pioneer of balanced power but pricey.http://www.equitech.com/ There is some good info in their articles and white paperer section.

Systems

treitz3 wrote: »

.

GV, I misspoke and I was correcting the 1st post as you were editing. My apologies.

Ah OK.

ALSO; I can not put up an isolated transformer as I live in a townhouse with the world's most anal HOA.

You don't have to by a big tranny,check the links and you will see they have units that are regular component size .You would just have to be sure it had the current rating to run your rig.

HiPerf360

I would try to find someone with an oscilloscope to check the incoming power and see what the incoming frequency is and if there is any other noise on the line.

disneyjoe7

Question, is everything audio plug in one ac outlet?

I'm a big fan of one neutral wire.

treitz3

Yes sir. One dual plug outlet.

disneyjoe7

Great


Can I ask how old your house is?

On know on some old home that the neutral can give you noise from the breaker box.

treitz3

Approximately 3 and 1/2 years old.

vonnie123

Do you have any dimmers, or other variable voltage devices hooked up in the house?

I-SIG

treitz3 wrote: »

I don't know. I don't run with a tuna anymore.

I ask because sometimes AM reception can be affected by loose connections, blown lightning arrestors, and other small little connection points on the utility's system. These problems typically shown up in the AM range or the frequencies HAM operators use.

It may be worth it to call the utility and get a recording voltmeter installed and have them check specifically for bad connections and other such things in your area. Also have them check for harmonics that ride along the power's waveform.

Maybe someone on your street or even the same transformer has a methlab or growhouse going that is adding something back to the system?

Wes

bigyank

Have you taken this rig on the road?
tried bringing someone elses gear into your house?

The power conditioner idea would be the best one IMO. Furman, APC, Monster and many others make them and you should even be able to match color to your gear.

Very strange problem indeed!

yank

madmax

If you have any of those low wattage flourescent screw in bulbs check them one at a time to insure one is not causing the problem.

Early B.

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Question, is everything audio plug in one ac outlet?

I'm a big fan of one neutral wire.

Slight derail --

Could this be the reason my subwoofer hums? It's on the other side of the room in a different outlet and different circuit. I've tried everything to get rid of it.

Early B.

I-SIG wrote: »

It may be worth it to call the utility and get a recording voltmeter installed and have them check specifically for bad connections and other such things in your area. Also have them check for harmonics that ride along the power's waveform.

That's a good suggestion, but when treitz3 calls his utility company, what does he say? "Good morning -- I'm experiencing a high frequency buzz in my beryllium tweeters. Can you guys check it out?"

In other words, if treitz3 has "bad electricity" coming into his house, what credible evidence can he use to explain to his electricity company that this is, in fact, the problem, and get them to run more extensive tests?

disneyjoe7

Early B. wrote: »

Slight derail --

Could this be the reason my subwoofer hums? It's on the other side of the room in a different outlet and different circuit. I've tried everything to get rid of it.

Early it's worth a try just to see and rule it out as an issue.

disneyjoe7

I-SIG wrote: »

I ask because sometimes AM reception can be affected by loose connections, blown lightning arrestors, and other small little connection points on the utility's system. These problems typically shown up in the AM range or the frequencies HAM operators use.

It may be worth it to call the utility and get a recording voltmeter installed and have them check specifically for bad connections and other such things in your area. Also have them check for harmonics that ride along the power's waveform.

Maybe someone on your street or even the same transformer has a methlab or growhouse going that is adding something back to the system?

Wes

You know I love where you're going with this. Maybe even a boombox radio on AM to check for noise, then run around house to find your source of noise.

BTW you don't use a telephone AC extender in the house? You know the thing which plugs in 1 ac out next to a phone jack, to install the receiver where you need a phone jack.

HiPerf360

Early B. wrote: »

That's a good suggestion, but when treitz3 calls his utility company, what does he say? "Good morning -- I'm experiencing a high frequency buzz in my beryllium tweeters. Can you guys check it out?"

In other words, if treitz3 has "bad electricity" coming into his house, what credible evidence can he use to explain to his electricity company that this is, in fact, the problem, and get them to run more extensive tests?

By finding someone with an oscilloscope to check the incoming power and see what the incoming frequency is and if there is any other noise on the line.

treitz3

bigyank wrote:

Have you taken this rig on the road?

Yse. The entire rig was featured at last year's Carverfest with no noise. I also have a Monster HTS1600 power conditioner.

vonnie123 wrote:

Do you have any dimmers, or other variable voltage devices hooked up in the house?

I do not.

I-SIG wrote:

I ask because sometimes AM reception can be affected by loose connections, blown lightning arrestors, and other small little connection points on the utility's system. These problems typically shown up in the AM range or the frequencies HAM operators use.

It may be worth it to call the utility and get a recording voltmeter installed and have them check specifically for bad connections and other such things in your area. Also have them check for harmonics that ride along the power's waveform.

Maybe someone on your street or even the same transformer has a methlab or growhouse going that is adding something back to the system?

I was the 3rd resident in my building and it was present from the start. The original neighbors have since gotten married and moved out. ***BUT*** there may be another building tied into it, so I'm not discounting it.

I will ask about the recording voltmeter and I'm already planning on getting them to check the main transformer and all connections between that and my house. It may just be a bad transformer. We'll see.

I will be getting my old pre that has a tuna that I am selling to another member soon [on loan] and when I get it, I will check. Anything specific that I might want to look for or expect? Certain frequency perhaps?

madmax wrote:

If you have any of those low wattage fluorescent screw in bulbs check them one at a time to insure one is not causing the problem.

Checked, double checked and triple checked. The two fluorescent lights in the house have been completely taken out of the circuit, both at the individual light themselves and by killing the circuit they were on. I've even killed the entire house except for the circuit that the rig runs on. Noise still there. Plugged it into an empty house across the street before any appliances were installed and believe it or not, even though I had 150' of extension cords....the noise actually decreased. Still present, but still was a decrease in audibility level. Grrr.

EarlyB wrote:

Could this be the reason my subwoofer hums? It's on the other side of the room in a different outlet and different circuit. I've tried everything to get rid of it.

Could be. Have you tried a cheater plug? An upgraded PC worked in getting rid of a hum in Bill Ayotte's Sunfire sub. Might want to check or try all 3.

EarlyB wrote:

That's a good suggestion, but when treitz3 calls his utility company, what does he say? "Good morning -- I'm experiencing a high frequency buzz in my beryllium tweeters. Can you guys check it out?"

In other words, if treitz3 has "bad electricity" coming into his house, what credible evidence can he use to explain to his electricity company that this is, in fact, the problem, and get them to run more extensive tests?

I actually have already been there, done that. The house is [according to Portrait Homes] warrantied for a bad electrical job for the life of the house. However, every time I have called I get the runaround to prove it. I told them to check out the 8 or 9 pages of things that I have checked for, tested and what not and what I have done and the only thing they say is that they can install a whole house power conditioner for an additional $700.00. When I asked them if they could guarantee that it would get rid of the noise, their response was...."No". When I finally convince them, after talking to the operator, the supervisor, the boss, the owner [or supposed owner :rolleyes:] yada, yada and being on the phone for an hour or so, their response has been consistent. Y'all ready for this ****? "If you didn't have such an expensive, High Tech stereo system, you wouldn't have the problem". That's where they leave the conversation and basically tell me that they are not responsible, that it is MY problem. :mad: :mad: :mad:

HiPerf360 wrote:

By finding someone with an oscilloscope to check the incoming power and see what the incoming frequency is and if there is any other noise on the line.

I will see if they can provide one. It is, after all their electrical line. I have a funny feeling I know what their answer will be so I will get a hold of some of the folks I used to work with and see if they can either borrow one or loan me one of theirs, if they actually have one for home use. It would be nice if I could rent one as they are just too expensive for a one time use. I will however see what I can do on this front 360.

Thanks to all that have responded as your assistance is greatly appreciated. I would like to get this issue behind me as I have been working on it and blowing $$$ to correct it for some time now.

Steve, I believe I still have one up in the attic somewhere. How exactly do you use this to check where a problem area may be?

disneyjoe7

WTF Nothing of mine is quoted he doesn't answer my question of MailWasher.


That's it TOM is off my list. ;(

treitz3

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

WTF Nothing of mine is quoted he doesn't answer my question of MailWasher.


That's it TOM is off my list. ;(

I quoted this.

Actually, look at the last sentence of my previous post. I'll look at that thread soon. I'm busy [kinda].

ben62670

Do you have cable TV? Try disconnecting it.
Is it constant, or does it come, and go?
Wireless INTERNET? Try disconnecting that.
Wireless phones? Unplug them.
Does the buzz fluctuate? (change frequency)
Are you near power lines, or a cell/radio tower?
I am out of Ideas.

treitz3

ben62670 and in bold italics, the responses wrote:

Do you have cable TV? Try disconnecting it. Yes and tried. Satellite as well.
Is it constant, or does it come, and go? Constant
Wireless INTERNET? Try disconnecting that. No.
Wireless phones? Unplug them. No.
Does the buzz fluctuate? (change frequency) No.
Are you near power lines, or a cell/radio tower? Yes. Main transmission lines coming from the Catawba Nuclear plant wizz by my townhouse at a distance of 3 or 4 football fields away. I have a Nextel tower approx. 1/2 mile away.
I am out of Ideas.

Answered. Look in quote.

Dennis Gardner

Does your neighbor have bad power? Ask to run an extension into their townhouse to see if it is you alone or an issue with the whole complex.

treitz3

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Does your neighbor have bad power? Ask to run an extension into their townhouse to see if it is you alone or an issue with the whole complex.

My building and the closest one both have the same bad power.

disneyjoe7

Ok move.


I'm out for now anyway.

I-SIG

treitz3 wrote: »

My building and the closest one both have the same bad power.

How many units are in a single building?

Wes