Receiver/Amplifer +Channel/Speaker out question

Ceruleance

I'm looking to buy a new receiver for my system, I listen to music mostly but I will use it for home theatre as well. I have a pair of RT55i's, however i want to be able to play stereo music on the RT55's as well as a subwoofer and towers that I will be adding to the system soon. When receivers have stereo mode its usually "___ Watts x 2 channels" What exactly is a channel? If the receiver only has two, will it distribute them to all 5 speakers or just to the main pair? Also, if anyone has any suggestions as to a receiver that would suit my needs as described, I would be gratelful. Thanks for the help

Dan

George Grand

You SEE in two channel stereo. Close your right eye, and your left eye is providing one "channel" of information. Close your left eye, and your right eye is providing one "channel" of information. Take note of the limited amount of info you receive with either eye closed. Now appreciate the much larger amount of information you see with BOTH eyes open. There is almost no depth perception with only one eye open. Open both eyes and depth perception is increased due to triangulation. This is EXACTLY what happens when your ears are exposed to two channel stereo. Limited information available with one ear blocked up, and almost no ability to determine "depth perception". The depth perception we are talking about HERE, is the depth of the stage the performers are on. Example? The drummer is generally behind the other performers. He (oops, or she) is further back in the sonic "picture", and should sound that way. This is the presentation we are talking about from a conventional 2 channel stereo receiver.

A 5 channel home theater receiver, adds a third eye in the middle of your forehead, and two more on either the side or back of your head.

I just pulled this analogy right out of my ****, but I think it is on the money.

What you are looking for is a 5 channel home theater or "audio/video" receiver. Try and find one with 100 watts per channel, and you should be alright.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

To other potential posters, I KNOW I overlooked "interaural crosstalk" in my analogy. Let's give Ceruleance Dan one mouthful at a time to digest.

wangotango68

lol

scott:cool:

jcaut

First thing to do in trying to pick a receiver (or any equipment, for that matter) is to decide what you're willing to spend. If you've shopped around any, you probably already know that A/V receivers start out around $200 and continue on up to $3000 or more. If you're willing to spend more than $1000 or so, you'd probably be better off with seperates.

Good prices can be found on the internet, but many times local dealers will let you actually take equipment home to evaluate. If you're not really sure what you want, that might be the best route.

George Grand

Dan,
I hope you don't interpret Scott's laughing out loud as an indication that I am **** with you, and have made a joke out of your question. I have not. I have done my best to explain through analogy what a channel is, and why we use multiple channels (two or more) to try and replicate the sounds around us.

Think of how much better a picture of your surroundings you would have, if you did in fact have 5 eyes placed in various locations on your head. When we add center and surround channels to the sonic presentation, we are attempting to improve that picture by adding more information.

If you are in fact, an admitted audio novice, setting a monetary limit IS a good idea. Purchase yourself a nice audio/video receiver. I don't think separates are for you just yet.

What are separates? A receiver is one piece of equipment incorporating a preamp section, power amp section, and a radio tuner section. Separates are just what the name implies. A separate preamp,
separate power amp (or amps), and separate AM/FM tuner. These would all be separate components, none able to reproduce music or sound on their own without the assistance of the others. Again, I am not sure this is the road for you.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

gidrah

I recently picked up what I like to think of as an interim receiver that I am guite impressed with. I think this or a similar one might be what you're looking for.
I am using a JVC (don't knock 'til you try it) RX-9010VBK receiver. I picked it up for under $330.00. It is 120 watts/channel in stereo or 100 watts/channel X 5 (Dolby Digital/DTS). It has a switch for 4ohm loads. I don't really know about the newer Polks, but I found out my older ones are kinda finnicky.
This receiver sounds much better in stereo than did my 4yr old Sony.
In this price range I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding one, much less one that sounded as good with the same options. It can play a CD in one room, and a cassette in another. I have a pair of bookshelf speakers in my bedroom that I watch movies with. It comes with a multi-brand RF (no pointing) remote. It has a comprehensive on-screen menu and comes with a 74 page (all English) manual.
If you're looking at spending less, I'd look at Sherwood/Newcastle. I don't personally know, but I hear good things. If you're looking to spend more, I'd look at Onkyo, Yamaha or Harman Kardon.
Actually, I'd look at everything you can. Don't be afraid to ask questions at the store either. Just for the heck of it, take up as much of THEIR time as you need (it's actually YOUR time, as they are getting paid), then walk out to mull it over.
Once I had my choices limited, I did a search on Alta Vista. Down at the bottom there's a "shop the Web for ..." icon. You'd be surprised at the price differences.
Also, check out WWW.Audioreview.com. There's a wealth of reviews of stuff. Don't jus look at the ratings, read the reviews.
Good luck and great reading a new face.

P.S. George you never cease to amaze me.

George Grand

Thanks Gidrah. I noticed you are starting to hit your stride, and I like what I see.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

RuSsMaN

Spoken with true elegance George. I have copied that description into my audio.doc file, what a great explanation.

Dan,

As far as choices go, you have got quite a few. First thing we need to cover is budget. How much CAN you spend, and how much would you LIKE to spend. Usually we can find a few REALLY good options somewhere in between the two.

Cheers,
Russ

Ceruleance

Hey Guys,
Thanks much for all the response, I appreciate it. in terms of budget, im definitely not looking to go over 1000, $300-600 would be nice, if there were a quality receiver in that range. As i'm sure you can tell, i'm not looking for an award winning system hear, nor could I find the means to procure one even if I was. As long as it's loud and fairly accurate, that would be great. Oh one more thing, what price range approx. do the manufacturer's start switching over from the flimsy push-pin terminals, to binding posts? I've got banana plugs on my original monster cable and im looking for a quality connection. Thanks again for all the knowledge, i'll put it to good use

Dan

jcaut

Dan,
When I mentioned seperates, I was speaking more in a general sense. There are receivers that cost $2-3K that might "approach the performance" of seperates, but if you're gonna spend that much, seperates would likely be a better choice.

$300-$600 will get you into decent receivers from several quality manufacturers. You should be able to find good binding posts in that price range, too. Shop around, see what you find, then maybe you could ask for some opinions from guys on this board about specific receivers.

Crutchfield has a well-organized site with lots of information about, and pictures of products. They also have a good selection of receivers in your price range, if you want to shop on the web.

BobMcG

Dan,

Meet George. George is right on the money. (I'll have to remember that analogy.) I can't help you in shopping for a new recvr. but there are plenty of good guys in here who can help you and you've received some good feedback already.

BTW: A two channel stereo recvr. is just that, two channels. Left and right, no center and surround channels. You'd need to buy a five channel recvr. if you wish to build a 5.1 surround sound home theater.

Ceruleance

Hey Guys,
I've searched a little further, went over to the local circuit city to get a taste of the PSW-350 and 450. I should make that purchase within the next month, not sure which model yet, i suppose it depends on which i can get the best deal out of, although obviously the more powerful is the preferred alternative. Any insight on that (including where i'd find the best deal)?
Heeding advice, I think the JVC RX-9000V would meet my needs, and its definitely in my price range. Any comments on that selection? Anyone own or used this model or similiar?
Also, Can someone explain to me the different methods of hooking a subwoofer up to a receiver and what the benefits of each are? As well as why you would hook up additional speakers through a subwoofer as opposed to from the receiver. My last question is about the different stages of expansion. Will the system sound odd playing movies with only a pair of rt-55is and a subwoofer, or odd with the aforementioned as well as powered towers, sin a center channel? Can i take advantage of 5.1 sound in transition from a 2 speaker set up to a 5+sub system?
As always the help is appreciated greatly, can't wait to hear what you guys have to say.

Dan

Ceruleance

Another quick question..
What is THD? Higher or lower is better? Im guessing lower.. Why?

thanks,
Dan

Ceruleance

gidrah, what's the difference between 9010VBK and 9000V? Crutchfield's compare button is not working very well

RuSsMaN

Total Harmonic Distortion.

Lower the better, yes, but watch at where the THD rating is measured. You want to look for THD ratings across the amplifiers entire band, 20Hz-20Khz.

Some manufacturers will try to sneak in a 1Khz THD rating to pad the stats. (usually much lower THD at that frequency vs the entire band)

Cheers,
Russ

Ceruleance

the JVC 9000 has a THD of 0.02%, @ 8 ohms across the 20-20khz range, 9010 is 0.08% across this range. Is that diffence above a perceptible threshold? How much difference will it make? (Especially for tight bass response at higher volume levels)

Dan

George Grand

Dan,
HUMANS cannot generally detect distortion levels of .5% or lower. It is easy to get MUCH lower levels, by introducing negative feedback into the equation, but that is NOT necessarily a good thing. I think either that 9000 OR 9010 will fit your bill. I recommended the 8000 to some of the guys at work. I think you may realize a better price on the 9000, as it appears it is being replaced by the 9010. At the McGuire Air Force Base BX, the 6000 went on sale as soon as the 6010 was introduced. THAT is why I recently recommended the 8000 to guys at work. If the 6000 was going to be replaced, so was the 8000. The BX just hadn't gotten around to stocking the 8010. The amount of change from one years model to the next IN MOST CASES, is largely cosmetic. Is last years Chevy any less driveable than this years? You get the idea. Keep pestering the guys here on the forum, and don't take MY WORD on receivers as gospel. There are far too many guys on this forum that have more experience with TODAYS receivers than I. THEY are the ones who will be able to tell you the subtle nuances between TODAYS receivers. I envy you for the amount of fun you are going to be having shortly.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

TroyD

Polk has a Home Theater Handbook that if you go to the library section on the website, I am pretty sure they will send to you free of charge. I think it does a pretty good job of explaining most things probably better than, well, at least I could.

Troy

Ceruleance

Thanks again for the replies, i'll be doing a lot more reading and a lot more test listening in the near future. Listened to my 55i's for 10 hours straight this evening.. Believe me the system I finally decide to purchase won't have many idle moments.

Dan

gidrah

When I got mine I was originally looking at the 8010VBK, but found a deal for the next model up. I can't tell you the difference as I just with the "if I can get step up for about $20 more than what I was considering....." mindset. I'm not sure about the 8000, but THINK it might be the 8010 minus the front panel USB port. I agree with George (as usual) that the 8000 is probably just the earlier model with a different front, but basically the same insides. I'm pretty sure the BK stands for black (faceplate). I did see a JVC in the Flea Market. Talk to him. You may already have.

THD stands for: Total Harmonic Distortion. This is a statistic that is totally abused by electronics manufacturers. If you notice, it sounds important, and yet is not used by speaker manu's as it's too variable. As George said <.5% is not any worry. At least at this level.

As far as the sub goes: It depends largely on how much you listen to music compared to watching movies. Movies have a tendency to go lower in the frequency than does music. Too many people will buy a subwoofer and turn it up too loud. They think the more bass, the better. Sometimes bigger (and cranked louder) is not necessarily better. It depends absolutely on a combination of your room size/dimensions and listenining preference.

You will miss out on 5.1 without 2 fronts, 2 rears and a center. Do yourself a favor and pick up a center/small speaker combo of 3. These can be had for a song. KLH come to mind. Check out pawnshops or the Best Buy demo shelf. If you upgrade you can use the small speakers in a different room.

I hate to ask this, but do you have a DVD or DSS? The receiver in and of itself will not provide 5.1 (DD or DTS).

gidrah

I've got my sub hooked up with speaker wire going from the receiver, to the sub, then to the front speakers. Some receivers do not allow for the subwoofer when listening to sources (CD, FM, etc.) other than something 5.1. I don't know whether the JVC does this or not, it was just easier at the time. This way I can adjust the crossover depending on the source and my mood. This you can decide with experimentation.

I did hook up my sub with the sub-out on the receiver as a test and found no improvement. I promptly switched back.

Ceruleance

Yes I have a DVD deck. How can i figure out whether i will be able to use the subwoofer for all sources?

gidrah

I haven't found anything in the owner's manual and would assume it'll play for all sources. If you use the speaker in/outs make sure to use short, thick runs. This is how I've got mine hooked up. It just seems easier to add more or less bass depending on what I'm listenning to.

Ceruleance

Thanks for the help guys. I've decided i'll probably get a JVC 9000V, PSW450, and a pair of RT35i's in the rear because i think they'll be a good match with my fronts, I want a speaker suited for music more than effects, dipole's are not for me. plus this way if i upgrade my fronts i can use the 35's in another room. Of course this is all pending listening to them, so i'll go bug the circuit city people. i'll let you know how it goes.

gidrah

It seems like you made some good choices. Good luck! Glad we could be of help. If there's anything else, let us know. I think you'l be happy with the JVC.

RuSsMaN

If you have the means, cash or CC, just buy the gear and go home, grab a sixer, and get your demo on....

I have found the CC rooms, shall we say, less than desireable for serious demos.... Also, if you do demo at cc, make sure the source is flat, no added bass/treble/dsp whatever...

Cheers,
Russ

George is right, you are going to have a lot of fun.