Friends of All Animals PLEASE show some support

ntculenuff

I know it is not audio related but it is important and all the support and help is needed. Thank you for taking the time to read. I hope nobody finds offense to this posting and if so I apoligise and will remove .

We are at a time where all large dog breeds (not just Pit bulls) are being looked at as a "Dangerous Breed". In some cases, local government is trying to ban the majority of large breeds from city limits or impose higher licensing fees and carry expensive insurance premiums if they choose to keep their family friend. This will not only affect local areas but places we may choose to visit with our pets.
With this coming about I've come up with the idea "Don't blame the Breed, Blame the Owner". I went to a friend to see about making a sign to put on my vehicle to show my support for large dog breeds. He came up with the stickers below.
If you or someone you know feel the same way about the animals being targeted as a "Dangerous Breed" you can show your support by purchasing stickers.


Small sticker -$2.50 (4"x1.75")(prices include postage)


Large sticker -$3.50 (3.5"x3")(prices include postage)

Proceeds will be put toward our own Zoi Jane's knee surgery in February. Any extra proceeds will be donated to 1-800-save-a-pet.com


Zoi Jane

To Order
1 PayPal: ntculenuf@cableone.net
2 Include: which stickers and the quantity you would like along with your mailing address.
If you do not have a paypal account, contact via Email ntculenuf@cableone.net

Stickers designed by Bartman Signs Company (208) 665-2278
PLEASE Feel free to share this with friends/family and help out

hearingimpared

I am a dog lover. I love my dog like I would a child however, I think human beings are more important than dogs. Certain characteristics are bred into a dog and it becomes instinctive to that breed of dog. My dog is half black lab, half border collie. He exibits the instinctive tendancies of both breeds.

tcrossma

I have two black labs, both wonderful dogs and very good with children. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a story of a black lab attacking a child, and yet I hear it all the time from the "dangerous" breed dogs.

I don't think there's a large push against all "large breed" dogs, just the ones that routinely attack people. I'm sorry I can't agree with you on this, but some dogs are just dangerous and its been proven time and time again.

Ricardo

Very few owners know how to train and control these dogs; that unfortunately makes them dangerous for people around them. Sorry.

jwhitakr

Ricardo wrote: »

Very few owners know how to train and control these dogs; that unfortunately makes them dangerous for people around them. Sorry.

Aboslutely agree with this. When you have an animal that has instincts that are not worked out of them since when they are puppies, you cannot expect them to live around people (especially children).

ntculenuff

I agree it is sad when people or other animals are hurt due to the neglect and handling of an attacking animal, but to lump them all in a group is ignorant.
The problem is the animal gets put down (which if it attacks I agree it should) but the owners are getting a slap on the wrist and able to get more animals and the cycle starts again.
Any breed of dog that is abused and/or forced to fight will be dangerous to society which again comes back to the owner.
In some areas chows, great danes, boxers, German Shepard's, Doberman pinchers, St Bernard's and others are being looked at as dangerous breeds.
seems as though you only here about the terrier breed.
I have been the victim of a few situations with dogs. The worst one being a poodle ran across a street to chew my leg up. I had to get stitches, rabies shot and after all that nothing was done. Come to find out I was the 3rd person it had attacked that week still nothing was done. now if it would have been a bullying breed it would have been all over the news..

tcrossma

ntculenuff wrote: »

I agree it is sad when people or other animals are hurt due to the neglect and handling of an attacking animal, but to lump them all in a group is ignorant.
The problem is the animal gets put down (which if it attacks I agree it should) but the owners are getting a slap on the wrist and able to get more animals and the cycle starts again.
Any breed of dog that is abused and/or forced to fight will be dangerous to society which again comes back to the owner.
In some areas chows, great danes, boxers, German Shepard's, Doberman pinchers, St Bernard's and others are being looked at as dangerous breeds.
seems as though you only here about the terrier breed.
I have been the victim of a few situations with dogs. The worst one being a poodle ran across a street to chew my leg up. I had to get stitches, rabies shot and after all that nothing was done. Come to find out I was the 3rd person it had attacked that week still nothing was done. now if it would have been a bullying breed it would have been all over the news..

The difference here is that rarely has a poodle ripped someone's throat out. No offense, but you're comparing apples and oranges. The "dangerous breed" dogs have been classified so for a reason. Time and time again they've cause serious damage to adults and children alike. I completely agree that if they are in the care of a trained dog owner and kept away from situations where they can cause damage they could be good pets, but the risk is too great for the casual owner.

There also has to be some classification of these animals for the sake of people that wouldn't otherwise be aware of the risk of owning them. It's unacceptable to purchase or adopt a dog and then, after it hurts someone, find out that it's not uncommon for that breed unless you are an experienced handler. It's also not enough to leave it up to the dog breeder/seller to inform the buyer, because the breeders/sellers are not always responsible. Publicly labeling certain breeds as "dangerous" might be unfair to some individual dogs but I personally think it's the right thing to do.

Demiurge

This is a touchy issue.

Mostly because I know people who had "pit bulls" (not technically a breed, but a description of various types of dogs with similar charactaristics) that were fine dogs. On the flip side, my friend's 5 year daughter old lost half of her face to a "pit bull."

I am a dog lover, but there are certain breeds I would never own. There is a lot of mis-information on both sides of this topic.

Yes, the majority of what makes a dog safe is how it was trained. However, some breeds are harder to train than others and are just physically different specimens. A "pit bull" is capable of damage to a human far and beyond the damage that a Golden Retreiver is capable of. Both can kill, but the jaw of a "pitt bull" is much stronger than most dogs and they don't let go.

It's the damage they can do which is why most people don't want to be around them, and personally, I don't blame them. There is a reason we don't have people raising hyenas in the suburbs -- they're dangerous as hell. You've all seen the guys on TV who think they can raise grizzly bears from cubs to adulthood and you're just waiting for them to get their heads bitten off, and they usually do in time.

I walk a fine line on this subject, and know there are "pit bull" owners out there who have never had an issue. The reality is that type of dog gets all of the face time because of the extent of damage they do to people when they do attack, not because they're the only dog that attacks.

tcrossma wrote: »

The difference here is that rarely has a poodle ripped someone's throat out.

Oddly enough, they're one of the most "dangerous breeds" out there.

MacLeod

I love dogs more than people but I have to disagree on this one as well.

Pit bulls are a dangerous breed pure and simple. Even with love and care from birth theyre still animals and are at the mercy of their instinct. Theyre killers and have been such for many moons. Thats not something you can overcome with some TLC. You can take a tiger or lion or bear and treat them like your child from the time they were born and they can seem very affectionate but then they can still turn on a dime and rip your head off. Its not their fault, its their instinct.

nms

Hey watch what you say about poodles! We have a miniature one and the only person he wants to kill is the UPS man (we can't explain it - not FedEx, not mail, ONLY UPS)! The rest of the time he's more bark than bite.

That aside, our neighbors used to have a large German Shepard named Prince. He had a bad habit of chasing people down the street who walked past his house. They started out with a rope and a stake, but Prince would pull it out and run off. Then they put in an electric fence. Prince figured out it only hurt for a second, and would jump it and run off. They eventually ended up with a double-spring-loaded steel line anchored to 2 trees with a steel cable running to his collar. My point? He was a strong and highly motivated dog...

But having said that, I'd like to have a German Shepard some day. I think that almost all bad behavior in dogs is the result of a lack of training rather than "bad instincts". Instincts can be overridden by lots of training and constant viligence. Anyone who's seen the Dog Whisperer knows what I'm on about - that guy is amazing.

Small dog owners can get away with less training because little dogs can't cause as much damage - a swift kick sends them flying across the room. Big dogs require a more responsible, intelligent and motivated owner.

Just my 2 c.

PolkThug

I like this one.

Demiurge

I "like" this one

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wingnut4772

PolkThug wrote: »

I like this one.

Ha!:D

tcrossma

nms wrote: »

But having said that, I'd like to have a German Shepard some day. I think that almost all bad behavior in dogs is the result of a lack of training rather than "bad instincts". Instincts can be overridden by lots of training and constant viligence. Anyone who's seen the Dog Whisperer knows what I'm on about - that guy is amazing.

To me this contradicts what you said about the person that tried the chain, electric fence, and then the double-chain. To me that person was vigilant and motivated to train their dog, but the instinct of the dog overcame everything that the owner tried.

Now to me German Shephard are not the "worst" of the dangerous breeds, but i'll tell you this, if you were a friend of mine that had a dog that jumped through electric fences, I sure as hell wouldn't bring my kids over to play.

Demiurge

For the record, the dog that killed that kid was probably mistreated. The point is that the kid is dead. The strength of a "pit bull" is pretty much unrivaled by any other breed. That's why people fear them, especially people with kids. They don't have a fighting chance of getting away.

markmarc

As a dog lover, I would never own certain breeds, Pit Bull being the top of the list. My previous dog was a shepard/greyhound mix. When he was young he was very intimidating as he "walked us", barked at the door, etc., but never did anything but sniff someone. So the concept of a blanket law for big dogs is wrong. I would work with the city council to amend the law, because it would seem to be unmanageable.

I can't argue with a slightly larger fee for licensure, only because once big dogs start barking they can easily get into a cycle and make the neighborhood a miserable place to live. We experienced it first hand in our previous for upwards of 11 hours straight with the neighbor right behind us. It was a secondary reason why we moved.

AdamRagland

demi has a good point. i'm not sure if its so much as a dogs "training" that keeps it from becoming dangerous. its mostly due to its upbringing. i have a german shepherd and i wouldnt call him the most trained dog in the world. he knows dozens of commans which he can learn in less than an hour. but i don't see it as his training that has kept him from becoming dangerous. its because i made a choice when i got a german shepherd to raise him to be a good dog. he may not be the most "trained" but i will tell you he doesnt even understand what anger is. truly the most noble yet happy dog i've ever seen. i would feel completely comfortable letting my 2 year old niece pull on his ears while he was eating a raw steak even if he hadn't eaten for days. just like kids: you raise them the right way they will be good kids. you raise hellions and they will raise hell. here is my shepherd BTW. his name is Samson

Bill Ayotte

I have worked with a number of abused dogs, from the two misfits I sadly left with my old roomie in TN to a German Shepard, to a big old rot, and even a BIG female pit that was recovered from a dog fighting ring...It is all about the approach of training, no matter the breed. The hardest dogs to train that that I had were the last two I had, and they were a mix of Rot/Jack Russel terrier. The pit was a big love machine, unless you were the **** that was trying to come through the window at midnight...(he promptly left) Evidentially, they were unsure if she would need to be put down or not when they gave her to me, she had some food aggression issues...Never gave me any problems though....Daisy the German Shepard was an absolute goof, she was just a happy puppy who was abused by kids, and had some issues with small children. The last two, Waylen and Jenny, were found together in a plastic bag on the side of the road when they were about 2, we never really knew their age, the vet guessed about 5 when I took them in...They were real skidish, and Waylen (the male) would literally just start peeing if you yelled at him. After about three months, they were just happy hyper **** house pets, it took a lot of patience to get them to stop jumping on people, and not barking incessantly the second I put them out. We got it down after about six months. The problem with the foster program that I had was you literally had to try to adopt out the dog yourself, once they are in your home the humane society could care less about it, they have a place to live now....I had Waylen and Jenny for about 16 months, and it was heartbreaking to have to let the roomie adopt them when I ended up moving up here. They are doing well, and he actually bought a bigger house with a huge fenced in back yard, so they are all kinds of happy....Here's a pic of them, the mini-rot is Waylen, and the giant Jack Russel is Jenny.

ohskigod

as much as I love dogs, and as much as I have met some cool pit bulls in my life, I agree with laws curbing them. time has been proven that a large percentage of owners do not have what it takes to have these pets act appropriatly (i.e. not maul someone to death)

there are waaay too many people that own pits for the wrong reasons. i know there are those that just love there pits for no malicious reasons, but you guys are a minority.

when a breed gets tainted by generations and generations of breeding to be viscious, its a problem, and the breed is heading toward, if not already at, the point that there not fit for standard pet ownership.

HiPerf360

tcrossma wrote: »

To me this contradicts what you said about the person that tried the chain, electric fence, and then the double-chain. To me that person was vigilant and motivated to train their dog, but the instinct of the dog overcame everything that the owner tried.

Now to me German Shephard are not the "worst" of the dangerous breeds, but i'll tell you this, if you were a friend of mine that had a dog that jumped through electric fences, I sure as hell wouldn't bring my kids over to play.

Not even close.

Tying a dog to a tree is not training a dog. All the dog knows is that I doesn’t want to be tied to a tree and a buried electric fence will not keep an untrained dog in a yard. I have two dogs that came with my wife and when she moved in they were completely untrained, very good loving dogs, but untrained. It took me about three months but now we don’t even use leashes or collars to walk them. These were not the first dogs I trained but I was also a little nervous because I had no knowledge of the breeds and the dogs were three and five years old.

Dogs need structure to behave correctly.

You have to teach them some very basic things but understand how their mind works.

They have to know who the leader is, and what is expected of them.

ntculenuff

nms wrote: »

Hey watch what you say about poodles! We have a miniature one and the only person he wants to kill is the UPS man (we can't explain it - not FedEx, not mail, ONLY UPS)!

that's funny our ups driver taught my pup to sit and stay on the porch, she listens to him better than me I think.

I agree with almost all the statements even as a owner but, as I read through the post here it always comes back to the owner. and unfortunately the video of the boy is sad and should not be taken lightly but the owner that had that dog probably has another one and is treating it the same way as the last.
as it happens in the majority of animals vs. humans cases the owner never gets punished enough.
I know that it is a touchy subject and every body has there own perspective on the subject.
After rescuing my zoi from the pound at 11 wks I will admit I was a little scared of how she would be cause who ever had dumped her off at the pound was abusing her, she was under fed and both front legs were broke. and I had some of the "people who have dogs for the wrong reason" approaching me all the time trying to buy her wanting her to breed. because of this I have met a lot of dogs that scare me but I just feel sad for the dog cause it doesn't know any better.

sorry for the rambling, been sick lately and cooped up. the computer has been my only contact with the outside world

tcrossma

HiPerf360 wrote: »

Not even close.

Fair enough. I just re-read what I wrote there and I don't agree with myself either. That'll teach me to post stuff after having a few drinks. I agree completely, tieing a dog to a tree is not an attempt at training.

ntculenuff

cute dogs by the way

nms

To me this contradicts what you said about the person that tried the chain, electric fence, and then the double-chain. To me that person was vigilant and motivated to train their dog, but the instinct of the dog overcame everything that the owner tried.

I was gonna respond, but HiPerf beat me to it:

Not even close.

Tying a dog to a tree is not training a dog. All the dog knows is that I doesn’t want to be tied to a tree and a buried electric fence will not keep an untrained dog in a yard.

This is exactly the case with our neighbors, the dog was never really trained. Unfortunately, after the Shepard died they got another big dog - a mix, and are doing exactly the same thing with him. The difference is he's very freindly by nature.

Dennis Gardner

ntculenuff wrote: »

I have been the victim of a few situations with dogs. The worst one being a poodle ran across a street to chew my leg up. I had to get stitches, rabies shot and after all that nothing was done. Come to find out I was the 3rd person it had attacked that week still nothing was done. now if it would have been a bullying breed it would have been all over the news..

If it would have been a bullying breed, you most likely wouldn't be here to post your affection for the breed...............I'll take stitches and shots over a casket anyday.

Other breeds aren't in the news for killing as often, because it doesn't happen as often per capita, period.

I do agree that the owners are to blame, but you can't outlaw stupidity....

sucks2beme

There are too many *sswipes in my subdivision with big dogs and no care.
There is an Akita down the street that's left outside all day and has destroyed the
fence. We called the town to at least get them to fix it.
There was another large animal right in the yard by the school crossing that
used to hit the fence like a ton of bricks. I called the town on that guy after that big
dog head came through a section of fence at me one night.
What are they thinking? Leaving you dog outside in Texas all summer tends
to make a mean dog. Why get a pet if he's going to spend 99% sitting in the
backyard barking at everyone? IT's a wonder either guy didn't have a kid mauling incident to deal with.

I guess if we can't ban stupid people, we'll have to settle for banning
aggressive breeds.

nms

I guess if we can't ban stupid people, we'll have to settle for banning
aggressive breeds.

Hmmm... That seems to infringe upon my constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness... Oh wait, since when do my rights matter? :rolleyes:

PolkThug

Their temperament isn't any worse than other dogs.
http://www.atts.org/stats1.html

First it was German Shepherds, then Dobermans, then Rottweilers and now "pit bulls". Next will be the Tosa Inu which were developed in Japan for arena fighting.

wingnut4772

I love dogs but I am mighty skeered of the big ones ..especially Chows and Pits.

Dennis Gardner

PolkThug wrote: »

Their temperament isn't any worse than other dogs.

You're right, but the results of the attacks are.

ntculenuff

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

If it would have been a bullying breed, you most likely wouldn't be here to post your affection for the breed...............I'll take stitches and shots over a casket anyday.

one was a doberman that i had spooked. been playing with him for awhile left for a few came back and he didn't notice me. he came around and got a hold of my arm pretty good but just barely broke the skin.
another was my friends chow kind of the same deal as above.
i will still walk up to dogs if there hurt or stray to see if i can help. Cats on the other hand they are mean when you bother them

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I do agree that the owners are to blame, but you can't outlaw stupidity....

too bad