Suggestions for good cheap 12AWG or better speaker wires?

CountChoculaBot

I was looking at the very nicely priced 12 AWG speaker wires from monoprice.com, but there are reviews there stating that their 12 AWG wires are actually of a larger (means it's smaller in diameter right?) gauge than stated. Are these just BS and I should just go for the monoprice Speaker wires? Or does anyone have a recommendation for good, *cheap* 12 AWG or lower speaker wires?

Face

http://bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

ben62670

Welcome to CP. Please list the equipment you are using in your setup.

Thanks
Ben

strider

CountChoculaBot wrote: »

I was looking at the very nicely priced 12 AWG speaker wires from monoprice.com, but there are reviews there stating that their 12 AWG wires are actually of a larger (means it's smaller in diameter right?) gauge than stated. Are these just BS and I should just go for the monoprice Speaker wires? Or does anyone have a recommendation for good, *cheap* 12 AWG or lower speaker wires?

I dunno, man. When I refer to something as having a larger gauge, I mean that it's bigger in size. If the review's positive, I'd assume that's what they're saying as well, based on the context.

Far as other cheap alternatives, I'm running Bluejean's 10 gauge right now, also heard good things about Signal Cable as well. I'd see what ben62670 has to say, he's a resident wire guru. Let him know what you got!

ben62670

strider wrote: »

Far as other cheap alternatives, I'm running Bluejean's 10 gauge right now, also heard good things about Signal Cable as well. I'd see what ben62670 has to say, he's a resident wire guru. Let him know what you got!

I don't know about being a wire guru, but I have had the opportunity to audition some good wires, and some bad. Don't get too hung up on gage. The quality of wire, and I think even more important the insulation makes some of the biggest differences.

Thanks Ben

ben62670

Lasareath wrote: »

I think Ben is making speaker cables now as well.

Yes I am:)
PM's are the best way to get a price from me. I don't like to post cost for Polkies on a public forum;)

tonyb

A roll of home depot 12 ga. will work......and cheap.

WilliamM2

I've been getting my wire here:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/category/SpkWireInwall

But I run all my wires in the walls, the way it should be. The soundquest 12ga and 14ga is very nice, and well made. Very flexible and pulls very easy.

ben62670

tonyb wrote: »

A roll of home depot 12 ga. will work......and cheap.

So will coat hangers:p
If looking for cheap wire that is decent I tried the WalMart car audio 14ga with good results. Much better than cheap monster, and Rat Shack rolls. Fat wires for short runs are a waste, and can be detrimental to SQ. I did a resistance test with my silvers, and the resistance was nearly immeasurable at 8 feet. When wire is rated for resistance it is usually tested at 1000 feet Inductors in crossovers have more resistance than 1000 feet of typical speaker wire. Resistance on a low scale has little to do with SQ. Capacitance, inductance, the conductive material(be it copper, or silver), and dielectric properties have more to do with SQ than anything else.

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I've been getting my wire here:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/category/SpkWireInwall

But I run all my wires in the walls, the way it should be. The soundquest 12ga and 14ga is very nice, and well made. Very flexible and pulls very easy.

Interesting find Bill

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/SQSCL1445WH

I like the looks of the 4 conductor wire for an in wall run to the rears. 4 14's is roughly 2 11's. I would use the opposing wires tied together for the hot, and negative. $50 for 100 feet is a sweet price. I wouldn't mind checking that out for surrounds. The money saved there could be used for some nice fronts:) Any idea what they are using for insulation?
Thanks
Ben

zingo

When I wanted cheap wire, I got it at Home Depot on the roll. The others are right, gauge doesn't really matter, but I would get at least 16ga. Making sure you get quality cables is the way to go if you want to do something a little more than budget. Welcome to the club!

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

Interesting find Bill

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/SQSCL1445WH

I like the looks of the 4 conductor wire for an in wall run to the rears. 4 14's is roughly 2 11's. I would use the opposing wires tied together for the hot, and negative. $50 for 100 feet is a sweet price. I wouldn't mind checking that out for surrounds. The money saved there could be used for some nice fronts:) Any idea what they are using for insulation?
Thanks
Ben

I have not tried the 4 wire, I just use the 2 wire 14 to the rears, it's only 32ft.

Not concerned with what the insulation is.

ShinAce

First thing is first, 12 AWG(american wire gauge) is not the same as 12 ga.

Secondly, a larger gauge is indeed a thinner wire. Kind of like the use of the word load for a resistance. A smalll load is actually a very high resistance.

Lastly, 12 ga wire is THICK, and a pain to bend around some corners. I recommend 14 gauge for runs up to 25 feet and power handling of 150 WRMS.

steveinaz

Go to Radio Shack and buy a roll of 18awg solid core copper wire. Twist two (or more) pairs together for each terminal, but only strip the ends. Best budget speaker wire out there---and sounds very good. I'd do this before I would use any multi-strand python wire.

ShinAce

Please don't do that. Google solid wire and skin effect. Granted 20 KHz isn't that high.

steveinaz

Already have, it sounds wonderful compared to multi-strand. Less reading my man, and more "experiencing." Multi-strand wires (IMO) create a hashy/confused midrange and typically over-done bass. Solid core copper tends to tighten bass and provide better seperation of instruments in the midrange/treble--YMMV.

jakelm

ShinAce wrote: »

First thing is first, 12 AWG(american wire gauge) is not the same as 12 ga.

Its not??

Secondly, a larger gauge is indeed a thinner wire. Kind of like the use of the word load for a resistance. A smalll load is actually a very high resistance.

.

Ok, call me stupid , but when someone says "go with a 'larger' guage wire", that tells me to go with a bigger wire. The numbers are backwards but someone saying larger and smaller, I take it as they actually mean larger (thicker) and smaller (thinner).

zingo

Good call jakelm, "larger" gauge is technically smaller wire, however, people usually refer to the size when they are talking about wire, and mix terms: "Go grab me some larger gauge wire". I'm sorry if that is technically not correct, but it is the common vernacular.

ben62670

ShinAce wrote: »

Please don't do that. Google solid wire and skin effect. Granted 20 KHz isn't that high.

My AQ CV4's sound excellent(solid core), and any super fine strand large ga (as in fat) that I have used has sucked. Also some of the best IC's are single stranded. Thanks for the education:rolleyes:

Face

steveinaz wrote: »

Already have, it sounds wonderful compared to multi-strand. Less reading my man, and more "experiencing." Multi-strand wires (IMO) create a hashy/confused midrange and typically over-done bass. Solid core copper tends to tighten bass and provide better seperation of instruments in the midrange/treble--YMMV.

It's just a matter of preference. I'm currently using speaker cables that resemble large silver foil air inductors. I prefer them to the stranded copper cables I was using.

jakelm

ben62670 wrote: »

large ga (as in fat)

I'm glad you said "as in fat", cause I was getting confused at what you ment....lol:p



...I just thought that was funny, explaining what you mean, in terms of guage, I dont think has ever been used here in CP,,,,that was funny...

ShinAce

Technicalities are just that, technicalities. It makes no difference what you say as long as the message is clear. The difference between the American Wire Gauge system and the british gage system is minor.

Please don't think I am bashing solid conductor wire. For soldering, solid is the way to go. Solid wires do have some problems. The wire directly after a solder joint is usually stressed and tends to break. I've repaired many a cable for this reason.

Coming back to solid vs stranded for audio. Make note that RG6 coaxial cable uses an 18 ga center conductor and a stranded jacket. The frequencies involved are in the MHz and the signal wire is still a nice big solid conductor.

I'm an electrical engineering student, and I can assure you, there is no acoustical benefit of solid wire over stranded wire. As a general rule, use unshielded stranded wire suitable for the length, and current requirements imposed on the wire.

If you still think I'm off on a tangent, consider the money spent on fancy wires that could have been invested in a better speaker. Which will sound better: a good speaker with 16 AWG wire or a mediocre speaker using 10 AWG?

By the way, I've stripped some 16 gauge wires only to have my fingers tell me it's closer to 18 gauge. The best is to have a square millimeter rating. In AWG, 14 gauge is 2.08 mm^2.

I also recommend grabbing a roll of 12 or 14 AWG. Has anyone noticed the power of the amp and length of run has not been stated?

ben62670

ShinAce wrote: »

I'm an electrical engineering student, and I can assure you, there is no acoustical benefit of solid wire over stranded wire. As a general rule, use unshielded stranded wire suitable for the length, and current requirements imposed on the wire.

Some engineers should stick to driving trains. I used to think like you, but I opened my mind a little. I have tried both solid, and stranded. You need to get your ears on some good equipment, and wires before making statements like you are making. I made a bunch of similar statements like you, and I had to eat my words.

Face

Shinace,
You can't make such blanket statements in audio.

steveinaz

ShinAce wrote: »

I'm an electrical engineering student, and I can assure you, there is no acoustical benefit of solid wire over stranded wire.

...I'm a listener, I can assure you there is. Have you tried solid core copper in an audio application?

ShinAce

I make my own cables for most applications. Most high quality signal cables are badly shielded. A lot of connectors are poorly plated.

Point is, until we get more info, no one can tell this guy the best tool for the job.

By the way, I think tube amps sound better than solid state. Does that mean tubes are more accurate?

ben62670

deleted

Face

ben62670 wrote: »

I am confused about your statement

Sorry, I'll clarify, the inductor/ribbon style interconnects sounded poor. But for speaker cables they sound great.

miner

www.impactacoustics.com

I bought the 4/14 wire - a 250' roll for >$100. $0.40/ft is cheap to me. I use this wire with some B&W speakers - works well.

Acadian

Seems like this thread has a few wire "experts", so i'll ask here.

I just purchased:
Rti8
CsiA6
Rti4
PSW505
Reiceiver is either (Yamaha 6050, Denon 688)

I figure i need about 100 feet total wire (less than 10 each for fronts and center, between 30 and 40 for rears). Rears will pass wire inside wall (or at least above ceiling tiles).

I've read alot of people saying, go for cheap monoprice...wire won't make a big enough difference for the money. I was looking at monoprice, but before buying i was hoping someone could comment or suggest on what i should purchase for this setup (same for sub cable).

I'm not in a hurry per say, but my speakers are kinda sitting there and delivery of wires prob takes a few weeks to Canada!

Thanks and cheers!

ShinAce

Since you already know you're going through the walls for the surrounds, I'd recommend a FT4 or CL2 fire rated speaker cable. At least 16 gauge for the surrounds, 14 if you can afford it.
The fronts and center are so close you could just use the same wire. Again, opt for 14 if you can in case you ever change amps.

You can pick up a 250' roll of 14/2 for about $100.

By the way, 30 feet for a surround is not a lot. Either your room is tiny, or those surrounds are getting mounted right next to the ceiling. Even 40 feet doesn't leave much breathing room for installation.