Replacing carpet with hardwood floor, sound issues

RuSsMaN

Go green, grass floors.

Bermuda is great for color and good for low light, but St Augustine feels much better on the feet.

heiney9

Then it could double as a putting surface and you'd have somewhere to securely place the indoor tiki torches.

H9

SCompRacer

I have moderate to severe allergies, too many to list. I even have allergies to beer, some more than others. I still drink it though I suffer to varying degrees.

When we had our new house built, we went with hardwood/ceramic tile throughout. Electronic air filters also help with my allergies. An area rug between me and my two channel speakers and GIK Tri Traps is all I needed for the symmetrical to corners speaker setup in my living room. The lower level is hardwood with Polk ceiling/inwall surround sound speakers. The sub rests directly on the floor. There are some small area rugs and absorbing furniture, and it sounds great to me.

I am sure your father would do an admirable job. Before you start labeling most hardwood installers as installing squeaky floors, you should get your learn on and understand more about hardwood. Solid wood floors float on the subfloor, only the edge boards on one side are nailed down. Solid wood expands and contracts with moisture and temperature changes. It depends on a level subfloor securely attached to the floor joists (glued and nailed/screwed). If the house settles and the subfloor dips, or the subfloor is not securely attached, guess what happens to the floor on top of it. In winter climates, best to have humidity control and add moisture to the air. You might even get small creaks from where the wood moldings contact the floor around the perimeter of the room.

Engineered wood floors are more dimensionally stable due to the multi layers of wood with the grain laid perpendicular to one another. These floors can even be glued down to concrete. I used an engineered wood floor of European manufacture in my lower level with concrete floor. The manufacturer still suggested a vapor barrier with floor muffler rather than gluing it down. That required leveling the concrete before laying the floor, or you end up with high/low spots and noise when walking upon it.

Sami

SCompRacer wrote: »

Before you start labeling most hardwood installers as installing squeaky floors

I don't live on the East Coast, there aren't as many professionals out here that take pride in their work. Yes, hardwood floors make noise, it is the nature of it but I have seen a lot of bad installs here in Texas. I had mine done by a professional for free (my dad makes his living remodeling and building houses), and I knew how it would end up looking like. That's a piece of mind and about $4000 saved on installation costs.

mmadden28

SCompRacer wrote: »

I have moderate to severe allergies, too many to list. I even have allergies to beer, some more than others. I still drink it though I suffer to varying degrees.

Just curious, what reaction do you get to beer? I had suspiscion that I was as well, but I think I know the real culprit now.

Lowell_M

mmadden28 wrote: »

Just curious, what reaction do you get to beer? I had suspiscion that I was as well, but I think I know the real culprit now.

I think I'm allergic to beer as well. Seems like when I drink beer my vision gets blurry and I have trouble walking. It also causes me to turn music up louder. I seem to lose control of my ability to refrain from saying the F-word and ugly girls become hot looking as well.

SCompRacer

mmadden28 wrote: »

Just curious, what reaction do you get to beer? I had suspiscion that I was as well, but I think I know the real culprit now.

My reactions can be run like a faucet to closed tighter than a drum. Closed tight will lead to severe headache and possible sinus infection.

One can have allergies to the various grains in beer (hops, barley, rye, corn, wheat, yeast) or the grapes in wine. Some folks experience non-allergic Rhinitis (dilation of blood vessels in the nose results in mucus production/nasal symptoms). I have different reactions to different beers, so we ruled out the non-allergic reaction.

I got so tired of being tested and attempted cures I just deal with it anymore. The prescription drug Allegra D works best for me, and I only take it in moderate to bad conditions.

mmadden28

I was getting a lump in the throat. Seemed to only happen with beer. It would last for a couple hours to a full day. Felt like I swallowed a pill and it got stuck. The reseracrh I did led me to believe that I might be allergic to something in that list you mentioned since had some pretty bad allergies (since birth).
Ultimately after getting scoped at the Dr's it was determined that my GERD was outta control-my esophagus lining was wearing away thus making it sensitive to the beer or its ingreients. It wasn't the same as Heartqburn or typical GERD sysmpptoms, but the lump feeling is simply the symptom after the lininig is worn away.

Now back on the Purple Pill and haven't had a problem since.
I don't drink much, but I like to have a few when at a social engagement.

Sami

Sinus here as well from drinking alcohol. I'm on Nasonex for the dust mite allergy (that's the only one I had when I was tested) but it doesn't help when nose gets blocked from alcohol. Not severe enough to make me stop...

Polksaladanni

We got $27,000 per acre + 20% annual royalties and that Saturday, the day of our signing, the Star Telegrams front page said "No More Big Signing Bonuses"

We were already a done deal 3 weeks prior though. Worked out to be 1/3 acre plus or $6987.00 in the kitty. Already have the money in the bank! Thank God.

WHOOHOO!!!

Hang loose till the market levels off. Or next summer..... There will be that mysterious "spike" in n gas prices here.... Or by then the oil and gas companies will have sucked our resources dry.

Why is it Texas, Louisianna and Miss. provide the only offshore drilling? Florida and CA need to help out damnit!

So is it 5" plank and from who???

Paul

We should get together some time also.

Polksaladanni

Reaction to beer/shellfish, etc sometimes: Gout-Crystalization of the lubricants in your joints.

I'm allergic to OsteoBioFlex. It is made with crushed shellfish and shells.

Paul

NotaSuv

"Carpet is filthy and a recepticle of dust,mites, pet dander and dead skin.''



hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm kind of like pillows and mattresses

Polksaladanni

Yep, and sweat too. I sweat in my sleep sometimes so I replace my pillow every month. Sheets twice a week.

Gout causes swelling also. Like a Bunyon Toe! 8^0

HB27

ShinAce wrote: »

I haven't read all the responses, but I see a bandwagon getting jumped on.

Hardwood floors are a good thing.

If I had a recording studio with carpet, I'd have some thin plywood up against the wall to lay down when playing instruments in the room. I don't want every instrument sounding like it's being played in the middle of a grassy field.

0 reverb = unnatural.


My mentality is that you damp the walls and ceilings, not the floor.

Agreed with the wall and ceiling reflections.
My patio area was used so much I enclosed it with glass on 3 walls and installed hardwood floors.
I spent so much time in there I needed a good sound system.
The reflections were awful and sounded a lot like an empty auditorium. I checked with an expert on sound dampening and we put up cloth vertical blinds on the glass and a bass trap in the vaulted ceiling and the room quietened down about 90% to where it was an excellent sound room.
THE critical factor was the angle of the vertical blinds on the side walls (windows). It was amazing the difference with the blinds opened up at roughly a 45 degree angle in the sq of the room.
Worked for my room. (RIP. flooding this spring destroyed my house)
Keep us informed please. Sound treatments are a critical area and I personally need to learn more.
Thanks,
Harry

John30_30

SCompRacer wrote: »

I have moderate to severe allergies, too many to list. I even have allergies to beer, some more than others. I still drink it though I suffer to varying degrees.

When we had our new house built, we went with hardwood/ceramic tile throughout. Electronic air filters also help with my allergies. An area rug between me and my two channel speakers and GIK Tri Traps is all I needed for the symmetrical to corners speaker setup in my living room. The lower level is hardwood with Polk ceiling/inwall surround sound speakers. The sub rests directly on the floor. There are some small area rugs and absorbing furniture, and it sounds great to me.

I am sure your father would do an admirable job. Before you start labeling most hardwood installers as installing squeaky floors, you should get your learn on and understand more about hardwood. Solid wood floors float on the subfloor, only the edge boards on one side are nailed down. Solid wood expands and contracts with moisture and temperature changes. It depends on a level subfloor securely attached to the floor joists (glued and nailed/screwed). If the house settles and the subfloor dips, or the subfloor is not securely attached, guess what happens to the floor on top of it. In winter climates, best to have humidity control and add moisture to the air. You might even get small creaks from where the wood moldings contact the floor around the perimeter of the room.

Engineered wood floors are more dimensionally stable due to the multi layers of wood with the grain laid perpendicular to one another. These floors can even be glued down to concrete. I used an engineered wood floor of European manufacture in my lower level with concrete floor. The manufacturer still suggested a vapor barrier with floor muffler rather than gluing it down. That required leveling the concrete before laying the floor, or you end up with high/low spots and noise when walking upon it.

You ever put down a floor? Hardwood floors do not float. If your guy only nailed it down on one end, he did it wrong.
They are diagonally nailed down, every stick. Look at a flooring nailer and you'll get the picture. A hardwood floor should not squeak.
And yes, agreed on vapor barriers wherever there's a subfloor, be it concrete slab or joist. Especially in a basement or area close to the water table.

Just sayin'.

p.s. by "Engineered wood", you mean plywood. And that's true, it is way more stable. I took about a 800 feet off a water-damage insurance job, had my stepson clean up the glue residue, and did my living area, kitchen, etc. with it.

Sami

If you mean by hardwood only real wood blanks, yes, I haven't seen anything here that floats. Mine is engineered hardwood that floats, one of the requirements when I selecting material. Floating material that locks, nothing else was even considered.

John30_30

Sami wrote: »

If you mean by hardwood only real wood blanks, yes, I haven't seen anything here that floats. Mine is engineered hardwood that floats, one of the requirements when I selecting material. Floating material that locks, nothing else was even considered.

The floating, locking stuff is mdf with a vinyl skin, just like the speakers. So it's not hardwood, not really wood at all. Mostly glue-based, in fact. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's very stable if you don't get it wet.
Generically called Pergo because they were out front with it from the start.

Glue-down 3/8" plywood is made from veneer layers of wood, usually oak. Usually pre-finished, yet it can be sanded down once to refinish. Also very stable. Don't get it wet.

Everything before 1965, say, was 3/4" lumber, usually hardwood but not always. I've seen and put down some gorgeous yellow pine 6" wide boards.

One of the last jobs I did was 5" wide custom-milled mesquite flooring, lots of holes and flaws in it, mucho expensivo, but gorgeous.

Sami

Well John, looks like you're little outdated on the materials. Pergo, a Swedish based company, makes laminates (mdf or plywood with plastic surface). That's what I put upstairs, laminate, but not Pergo brand. Downstairs is engineered hardwood; mdf on the bottom with thin (~5mm) layer of wood on surface. Very different feel to real wood and plastic, there's no doubt about this is wood surface. The downside is you can't sand and refinish these as the layer is so thin.

Go to your local hardware store, they should have locking hardwood. It's still mostly clued stuff but the number of locking hardwood is increasing which is a very good thing.

mmadden28

I know I just saw some engineered/ply hardwood flooring at Color Tile that had the wood layer at 1/4" thick or more. Not sure how it installed though.

Sami

Polksaladanni wrote: »

So is it 5" plank and from who???

5" engineered, hand scraped wood. If you go to Lowe's on 121 and Glade, it's called Maple Truffle. Chinese stuff, what isn't nowadays? It was on sale for $3.99 a sq.ft. and I got extra 10% when I applied for their CC.

My #1 choice was this gorgeous 3/4" thick locking hardwood from Home Depot (yes, I did also scout the small wood floor specialist stores, best ones for me were at HD and Lowes). Put in an order for 600 sq.ft. HD called the next day and said it was not available from manufacturer anymore and the lady offered to cancel my whole $5k order. It was tempting but I had to tell her the laminate was already picked up from the store. Wouldn't want bad karma...must been hanging out here at CP too much.

Polksaladanni wrote: »

We should get together some time also.

Absolutely. I plan to host another DFW minifest shortly but you're welcome to stop by anytime.

unc2701

SCompRacer wrote: »

Solid wood floors float on the subfloor, only the edge boards on one side are nailed down.

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that

Traditional solid hardwood floors are nailed down- you just don't see the nails away from the edge since they go into the groove.

There are a lot of new engineered, real wood products that you do float. They've got a layer of wood backed with a locking system out of ply/mdf/plastic/glue and god knows what else. Unlike solid wood they can go down in basement and places where you can't nail them. I've installed pergo, engineered wood and solid wood- solid definitely "feels" the best when you walk on it, but the other two have their advantages, too.

Some of the engineered ones can be nailed as well- if you're not installing in the basement and have stable moisture, I'd recommend that since the biggest issue with the feel to a floating system is the flex you get from it not being nailed down.

Anyhow, for sonics, considering how much less crap there will be in your sinuses I'm thinking your system is going to sound better no matter what.

John30_30

Sami wrote: »

Well John, looks like you're little outdated on the materials. Pergo, a Swedish based company, makes laminates (mdf or plywood with plastic surface). That's what I put upstairs, laminate, but not Pergo brand. Downstairs is engineered hardwood; mdf on the bottom with thin (~5mm) layer of wood on surface. Very different feel to real wood and plastic, there's no doubt about this is wood surface. The downside is you can't sand and refinish these as the layer is so thin.

Go to your local hardware store, they should have locking hardwood. It's still mostly clued stuff but the number of locking hardwood is increasing which is a very good thing.

Mmkay, haven't kept up on flooring. You mean the entire tile is 5mm thick? Which is like a strong 1/4" total. That's about what the typical "floating-floor" material is that I've seen.

Otherwise, if the wood layer is that thick, you should be able to sand and refinish it a couple times, which I'd call that hardwood.

What I meant re: Pergo is it's a generic name contractors give to all that type of flooring. At least, around here.

Sami

unc2701 wrote: »

Some of the engineered ones can be nailed as well- if you're not installing in the basement and have stable moisture, I'd recommend that since the biggest issue with the feel to a floating system is the flex you get from it not being nailed down.

On concrete with just the thin insulation + moisture block there really isn't any noticeable flex with floating engineered wood. Upstairs with wood base is a different story. The laminate we installed is floating on the thicker insulation that was there for the carpet and that does flex. It's noticeable only on the places where there are no rugs. The hardwood we installed on my sons room (also upstairs) last year is glued (not nailed) and does not flex but because it doesn't float it has its own problems.

unc2701 wrote: »

Anyhow, for sonics, considering how much less crap there will be in your sinuses I'm thinking your system is going to sound better no matter what.

Amen to that. I already can feel the difference in the air I breath here. Much better, and as a bonus the rooms feel much cooler (big plus here in Texas).

John30_30

unc2701 wrote: »

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that

Traditional solid hardwood floors are nailed down- you just don't see the nails away from the edge since they go into the groove.

There are a lot of new engineered, real wood products that you do float. They've got a layer of wood backed with a locking system out of ply/mdf/plastic/glue and god knows what else. Unlike solid wood they can go down in basement and places where you can't nail them. I've installed pergo, engineered wood and solid wood- solid definitely "feels" the best when you walk on it, but the other two have their advantages, too.

Some of the engineered ones can be nailed as well- if you're not installing in the basement and have stable moisture, I'd recommend that since the biggest issue with the feel to a floating system is the flex you get from it not being nailed down.

Anyhow, for sonics, considering how much less crap there will be in your sinuses I'm thinking your system is going to sound better no matter what.

Tongue, bro. Nails or staples go through the tongue. Just like the goth kids.:eek:

Totally agree on the sinus issue. That's why I redid the main living area of my house with the haul-away from a water-damage insurance job. Glue-down T & G oak, and the moron that did the original used ceramic tile glue. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

edit- I guess you 'could' nail through the groove.

Sami

John30_30 wrote: »

Mmkay, haven't kept up on flooring. You mean the entire tile is 5mm thick? Which is like a strong 1/4" total. That's about what the typical "floating-floor" material is that I've seen.

This what I got has plywood on the bottom. I just checked the thickness of it, before I just threw in that 5mm estimate and it's not nearly that much.

Total of 12mm which is close to 1/2", of which 10mm of plywood and 2mm of wood surface.

John30_30 wrote: »

What I meant re: Pergo is it's a generic name contractors give to all that type of flooring. At least, around here.

Yes, seems like it is common name for laminate here in the US, just like coke = soda. I'll post some pictures of the 3 materials I have here.

Sami

Ok, here they are. (<- link)

Thickest is 3/4" hardwood with wood on top and bottom, sandwiching some MDF. This was my original pick that was not available anymore.

Thinner hardwood is what I put in my family and living rooms, details a few posts up.

The thinnest is then laminate that ended upstairs. The thickness also effects the amount of flex, that 3/4" wouldn't flex nearly as much.

unc2701

John30_30 wrote: »

Tongue, bro. Nails or staples go through the tongue. Just like the goth kids.:eek:

edit- I guess you 'could' nail through the groove.

Ack- brainfart. Yeah, you could do it that way, but you'd have a **** of a time getting the nailer in position.

SCompRacer

John30_30 wrote: »

Hardwood floors do not float.

You are correct; my solid hardwood was secured to the subfloor. I got float on the brain from PF2008.

The engineered wood floor I installed over concrete in the lower level was made by Boen. It is 15mm (~5/8”) thick with a 8mm wood layer (~5/16”) so it can be refinished a couple of times if needed.

Polksaladanni

Hand-scraped... I think that is what I am looking for. My company was at the Gaylor for an industrial show and I saw the coolest "rustic" 5" plank there that looked like it was beaten with a small chain. I had a few knots in it also. Loved it!

I guess I'll go to my Hwy26 and MCities Lowes tommorow and take a look.

We only have 1 main room in this house so I will probably leave "carpet" in there. Albeit, the very thick and hard closed loop berber. We had tile and berber in the old casa in Arlington. Love both, but tile would look horrible with all the stained wood in this house.

Yesterdays StarTele Biss section had an article about our lease from Titan Energy. We are lucky SOB's!!!!

Paul

John30_30

SCompRacer wrote: »

You are correct; my solid hardwood was secured to the subfloor. I got float on the brain from PF2008.

The engineered wood floor I installed over concrete in the lower level was made by Boen. It is 15mm (~5/8”) thick with a 8mm wood layer (~5/16”) so it can be refinished a couple of times if needed.

That would be the stuff I would favor. They take the best of both worlds.