a wire is a wire!

AdamRagland
AdamRagland Posts: 521
edited January 2008 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
yes some of you are clicking on this thread already mustering up your best comeback to this argument, but before you do just understand i do not exactly have any stance on this subject. i know it has sparked a lot of controversy on this forum as i'm sure other audio related forums as well. i just wanted to post this article i came across to present it to you guys as kind of a "food for thought". read this article first and then i wanted to ask this one question:

do you believe this is true?

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

i know i used to not but i just don't know what to believe anymore. I myself have a pair of Signal Cable ultras that were almost $200 for the 10' pair. Was my purchase in vein? There are so many different "experts" having great points to support either sides on this subject. my question is: which expert should i side with?

***NOTE*** This thread is not to start another argument. I am only asking to hear others opinions on the matter and also more importantly i want to hear what you guys think of the basic fact that there are many brilliant and much smarter people than myself that believe both sides. How does it happen? I am a person that if i don't understand something i will research it but if the research varies so greatly how do i come to a concrete conclusion?
Post edited by AdamRagland on
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Comments

  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2008
    Since when do you have to side with an expert in order to make a decision bassed on what you like? Good luck.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    F the experts. The term is thrown around and given to people who have not earned it or harbor ulterior motives. Trust your ears. Have we honestly come so far that we refuse to trust our own senses? For God's sake where's the audiophile instinct.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited January 2008
    How many times does that old Roger Russell piece have to get brought up?

    It's problably been posted here more than "Which speaker do you think I should buy?" :confused:

    Nothing matters....do whatever you want....:rolleyes:
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    I find sticking my little finger and my thumb in the positive and negative posts respectively on the rear of my Adagios, then placing my tongue and person in the respective jacks on the back my amp, I am able to achieve imaging no sub $5000 cable can compete with! Of course . . . if I want stereo, I need a partner . . .
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  • AdamRagland
    AdamRagland Posts: 521
    edited January 2008
    I think you misunderstood the main point. I wasn't saying i don't trust my own ears. As a matter of fact i am very happy with my signal cables. i DID hear the diffrence between the ratshack ones i was using. However, you really can't expect someone to invest in anything without doing research first. Did you buy all of your equipment without even looking at any sort of reviews or research? thats all im saying. a year ago i knew NOTHING about speaker cables except that they carried a signal to the speakers. I wanted to make sure i was getting the best performance out of my setup so yes i researched different speaker wires. have i commited some sin? i cant just go by my ears when i cant listen to the diffrence. and who's to say the diffrence i heard wasnt pureley because it was a thicker gauge wire? i'm not trying to argue here guys i was just asking what you thought about how there is what seems to be scientific data that speaker cables DO make a difference and there is also data that says it DOESNT matter.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,184
    edited January 2008
    Oh boy. Hottest topic of the New Year. Oldest topic of the decade.

    .....and now a word from WilliamM2......
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2008
    Grab two sets of speaker cables, hook them up in an A/B test and keep the one that YOU think sounds better. If you want to, get an other set and try it again. Since you are the one listening to the music, you are the expert. Don't let anyone else tell you what does and doesn't sound good.

    However, point well taken.
    Jake
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited January 2008
    Your a **** bag:p I didn't use to believe wires made a difference till one of the senior members told me "your mind is like a parachute...". So I bought some PBJ's off ebay for $30. I noticed a moderate difference from regular RCA brand cables, and then a Polkie came over with a pair of Straight-Wire EncoreII's they made an even bigger difference. Now I have gone to silver IC wires, and the difference from regular cables is very big. With good after market cables you can expect your sound stage to open up, more detailed smooth highs, and mids. You can also get tighter hard hitting bass. If you test some $500 IC cables, and you have **** old school monster 10ga fine strand speaker cables you are going to snuff out the nice clean accurate sound. Basically if you stick a restriction(I'm not saying resistance) in your system nice stuff all around it will not be up to playing at full potential. The best advice I can give is look for a fellow Polkie to demo some wires for you. I truly wish wires didn't make a difference, because I could certainly use the cash to improve other things in my system, and my life. Even better try to make it to a Polk Fest.

    Edit
    William, and JohnK are the few that will say wires don't make a difference. Both guys seem like nice guys. I just don't understand how someone can be in this hobby for a long time, and not hear a difference:confused:
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • AdamRagland
    AdamRagland Posts: 521
    edited January 2008
    thanks ben. yea i hear a diffrence just in my jump to signal cable. i can live with "just listen to each wire and decide for yourself" that is a great idea. i was just curious how so many people can claim such opposite things thats all...i guess thats the way it is in any controversial subject. you are going to have experts on both sides of the fence.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    William, and JohnK are the few that will say wires don't make a difference. Both guys seem like nice guys. I just don't understand how someone can be in this hobby for a long time, and not hear a difference:confused:
    They're either tone deaf, cheap, or their equipment isn't up to snuff.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2008
    Neither of those individuals is new to "high fidelity" nor the subsequent gear associated with this hobby. Some people don't hear it or buy into the idea of better cables....big deal. We're allowed to have an opinion right?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited January 2008
    This thread is a waste of keystrokes!
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited January 2008
    Personnally, I think it's all proportional. If you've got $50K Avalon Sentinels, then you can probably afford $10K, for IC's. But you wouldn't spend that much for IC's on a Polk starter rig, would ya?
    That's JMO!?
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    obieone wrote: »
    Personnally, I think it's all proportional. If you've got $50K Avalon Sentinels, then you can probably afford $10K, for IC's. But you wouldn't spend that much for IC's on a Polk starter rig, would ya?
    That's JMO!?


    I agree, if I had 50 grand to drop, I would definitely buy the most expensive cables availble just to show-off my manhood.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,184
    edited January 2008
    If I had 50K to drop, all my other gear was up to snuff, I might would want to try a set of 50K cables to hear them. It has absolutely nothing to do with manhood.

    Some people wouldn't ever spend more than 200 dollars on a complete rig and would consider what most of us have a waste. I have a 5 figure rig which to some is going way overboard, but to others is just a beginning. To each his own.

    No portion of my rig stays unless it makes the sound improve, cables included and I went through 8 sets of [low cost] speaker wires before I heard any sonic change. Once I stepped up to the plate, I heard a wonderful difference and I'm not looking back. Only forward and if I had 50K to drop, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

    If they didn't improve the sound after break-in, they'd be out of my rig quickly.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    treitz3 wrote: »
    If I had 50K to drop, all my other gear was up to snuff, I might would want to try a set of 50K cables to hear them. It has absolutely nothing to do with manhood.

    You buy cables for the sound. I buy 'em for the girth. My rig is hovering over 10 grand. That might make me twice the man you are.

    . . . . just joking no need to start struttin' ;)
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,793
    edited January 2008
    I use rolled up tin foil and scotch tape.



    Trust your own ears. Only they can tell you what's right for you.
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,793
    edited January 2008
    treitz3 wrote: »
    If they didn't improve the sound after break-in, they'd be out of my rig quickly.


    Tom's an audio mutant.:D
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    Blasphemy! When I first joined-up Russman told me what was right for my ears! Now, I let the Yin and Yang of Vr3MxStyler2k3 and Dorokusai tell me what sounds right. :)
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  • Polkitup2
    Polkitup2 Posts: 1,623
    edited January 2008
    So far.... The more I've spent on cables the better they have made my system sound, look, and mechanically function. However, the most I've ever spent on a pair of interconnects is $120, and $190 for speaker cables. Will I upgrade someday? Maybe, but I think I would get more bang for my buck at this point upgrading my source, pre, or amp.
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  • vonnie123
    vonnie123 Posts: 326
    edited January 2008
    I have identical brand model Polk speakers purchased at the exact same time. I am running the speakers through a speaker selector from the same high-power amp; each pair of speakers will sound different from their identical twin based on use of a different brand of speaker wires on each pair. Hard to say which wire set is better, and which is worst, just different. When I change certain interconnect cables, the sound quality definition will change depending on the cable used and input/output affected.
    [
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,793
    edited January 2008
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    Blasphemy! When I first joined-up Russman told me what was right for my ears! Now, I let the Yin and Yang of Vr3MxStyler2k3 and Dorokusai tell me what sounds right. :)

    lemming...:D
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    lightman1 wrote: »
    lemming...:D

    Hehe . . . yup I suppose that was true in the beginning, but like all great students I have taken what the masters have taught me and adapted it to my own style. Really my rig is quite a combination considering all the influences I have had on this forum. I love it. Each component reminds me of people I have met on my audio journey.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2008
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    I agree, if I had 50 grand to drop, I would definitely buy the most expensive cables availble just to show-off my manhood.
    I hope you're kidding.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,793
    edited January 2008
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    Each component reminds me of people I have met on my audio journey.

    I have Doros assless chaps...ohh the memories of last weekend.
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited January 2008
    Face wrote: »
    I hope you're kidding.

    Nope, not in the least. Unless you have a sense of humor, then I am. However, if I did have a limitless income, I would buy 50K cables. 50K would seem like chump change when compared to my 500K Speakers.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2008
    Lasareath wrote: »
    If I had 50K for speaker cables i'd buy (2) Pairs Signal Cable Silver 10 feet long and put the $49,250 change into the down payment for my new house.
    I agree, I'd probably spend $500-1500 on what I believe sound the best, and use the rest of the money for something more constructive.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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