Monitor 50 bi-wiring help

czapt

I have an Onkyo TXSR605 receiver which I want to hook up to two Monitor 50s. Which connection on the speakers receives the "front" speaker wires, and which receives the "back surround" connection for bi-wiring? I'm assuming that the fronts go in to the top, and the surround goes in to the bottom connections on the speakers? Thanks.

daboyz

I'm assuming you're talking about one set of speakers. You do not use your surrounds at all. One end of your speaker wire, the two positive and the two negative will hook together into the left and right fronts on your amp. Then you will hook the two positive ends of the wire to the positive top and bottom of the speaker terminals. One wire per. Then you repeat for the negative. Make sure you keep polarity and remove the metal jumpers from your speakers.

John K.

CZ, welcome. The misunderstanding here is because what you're trying to accomplish is "bi-amping" rather than "bi-wiring". Apparently you're not going to be using back surround speakers, and the 605 has an option to connect the back surround channels to one section of the main speakers instead. This isn't real bi-amping, which requires completely separate amplifiers. Your 605 has only one amplifier power supply section in it, with multiple output channels to whatever speakers are connected. The one power supply section of the 605 doesn't somehow gain more capacity if it feeds a speaker through two sets of output transistors(one set in a previously unused back surround channel)rather than one. Available power remains exactly the same as before; it isn't doubled or increased by any amount. So, it wouldn't make any difference regardless of what output channel you connected to what section of your Monitor 50s; the audio signals and power output capacity are the same in each channel when you assign the back surround channels to the main speakers.

STARMARTYR

John K. wrote: »

CZ, welcome. The misunderstanding here is because what you're trying to accomplish is "bi-amping" rather than "bi-wiring". Apparently you're not going to be using back surround speakers, and the 605 has an option to connect the back surround channels to one section of the main speakers instead. This isn't real bi-amping, which requires completely separate amplifiers. Your 605 has only one amplifier power supply section in it, with multiple output channels to whatever speakers are connected. The one power supply section of the 605 doesn't somehow gain more capacity if it feeds a speaker through two sets of output transistors(one set in a previously unused back surround channel)rather than one. Available power remains exactly the same as before; it isn't doubled or increased by any amount. So, it wouldn't make any difference regardless of what output channel you connected to what section of your Monitor 50s; the audio signals and power output capacity are the same in each channel when you assign the back surround channels to the main speakers.

that's a great explanation! i had a very similar question, but a couple things i'm not quite clear on.. i have the same reciever & speakers as fronts. i was thinking of doing this, but was wondering what wattage would one see at the speaker if you bi-amp this way? 90w/per channel (x2 per speaker, apparently) into 150w rms speakers.. 180w at the speakers? or is that being optimistic? overpowering them? would this really overwhelm the other speakers in a 5.1 setup? and is this even worth it in your opinion? if you can answer my quiz i'd be most grateful as i've been grappling with the idea to do this for a little while! thanks in advance.

wutadumsn23

First off welcome Star, as to your question you are not getting exactly 90W to your speakers now eventhough Onkyo is pretty realistic when it comes to power outage. As John has already stated you will not get that much more power to your speakers by using two sets of outputs on the back of your receiver, nevermind 180W as you would think by doubling the watts per channel as you would think it would be. I have always wanted to bi-amp my 70's but haven't had the time to tear everything apart and try it. As for what you will gain, it varies. Some people have seen a noticable difference when bi-amping with an AVR and others say it isn't worth the cost of the speaker wire. Only way to find out is to try it, and see if you like/notice the difference. The best option is to add an external amp, which the 605 does not have pre-outs for adding an external amp so this is not an option for you. Like I said, try it and see if you like/notice the difference.

comfortablycurt

That 90 watts per channel is realistically only about 40 watts actual output...with the "bi-amping" setup on the AVR you're still essentially getting the same power output. As said earlier, all of the channels on your AVR are drawing their power from the same power section...so it isn't really bi-amping. You're not drawing more power to your speakers by connecting them that way. So no...you wouldn't be overloading the speakers at all.

Some people have tried it and reported a difference...other people have tried it and said it sounded exactly the same. Only way to find out if you like it though is to try it.

To answer your original question though, connect your front speaker terminals on the AVR to the top(tweeter) terminals, and connect the surround back terminals on the AVR to the bottom(mid/woofer)terminals.

Dune

What I don't understand is if it doesn't help then why does Onkyo go to the trouble of marketing it that way? I mean if people "in the know" know this doesn't work and people like me just starting to learn or people who don't know what the feature even is... then my question would be "why even have the feature in the first place"....ya know? The "Crutchfield" team made a reference to it that it was a good feature in there video review. It was one of the reasons I bought this reciever....mines a 606. At the time I bought it I was just starting to learn about audio(just learned what a pre-out was a few days ago)...now I'm thinking I should have gone a different route.

I do think movies sound great though...and that's mainly what I bought it for was the true hd and hdmi switching. I guess I'm happy.:)

arkaig1

I agree, Dune.

I think folks have pretty well said that it is unnecessary, but in another thread yesterday, I just noticed a particular instance where it might actually be useful, and am looking for clarification. See my query, yesterday, to comfortablycurt's followup, under "extra power to Rti A5's from Onkyo?", in this same forum. I think there is a window where it might be useful when driving a 5.1 speaker setup (but not stereo, and not 7.1 of course).

I'll explain tonight, at home after work, if folks don't rule it out before then.

wutadumsn23

I would have to agree that bi-amping using the AVR isn't going to make much of a difference, but you won't know until you try it. I noticed that Onkyo does "push" bi-amping with the AVR in pretty much all of their models, but I'm sure it is an option with most receivers that are 7.1 capable. I think it is just their way of "suggesting" another route, if you can't afford to or don't want to buy external amps to accomplish a "real" bi-amp. However like I stated in an earlier post, the 605/606 does not have pre-outs for adding an external amp so you won't be able to accomplish "real" bi-amping. I was considering the 606 when I was shopping for a new receiver and that is one of the reasons I went with the 806 instead, because I may not want to add an amp now, but atleast in the future I can w/ out having to buy a new receiver.

Dune

So is there a way around not having a pre-outs? Or do you have to buy another receiver?

comfortablycurt

Dune wrote: »

What I don't understand is if it doesn't help then why does Onkyo go to the trouble of marketing it that way? I mean if people "in the know" know this doesn't work and people like me just starting to learn or people who don't know what the feature even is... then my question would be "why even have the feature in the first place"....ya know? The "Crutchfield" team made a reference to it that it was a good feature in there video review. It was one of the reasons I bought this reciever....mines a 606. At the time I bought it I was just starting to learn about audio(just learned what a pre-out was a few days ago)...now I'm thinking I should have gone a different route.

I do think movies sound great though...and that's mainly what I bought it for was the true hd and hdmi switching. I guess I'm happy.:)

I'm having the same problem myself. I bought the 606...and now I'm kind of regretting not stepping up to the 706 or 806, so I plan to upgrade in another year or so. The 606 is still working just fine for my current needs, once I've upgraded all of my speakers though, I plan to go the external amp route. I'm thinking I'll probably go with the 806

Some people have reported hearing an improvement in sound quality after bi-amping with their AVR's, so it may yield some small advantages. If you're not planning on running a 7.1 system, you might as well do it though. It's not gonna hurt anything at the least...and who knows, maybe you will end up preferring it.

As to why they're advertising that feature when it has no advantage for the most part. It's a selling point. In theory, it will have an advantage because the woofers will be getting a seperate current from the mids/tweeter, but it's really more of a marketing ploy. Electronic manufacturers always have to come up with "the next big thing", which is the case here. Someone had to justify their development job, so they created "bi-amping AVR's".

Like I said though...it's not gonna hurt anything, so if you're not using the channels for surround backs, you might as well try it.

Dune

So is there a way around not having a pre-outs? Or do you have to buy another receiver?

comfortablycurt

Dune wrote: »

So is there a way around not having a pre-outs? Or do you have to buy another receiver?

Nope...If you want to use an external amp you've gotta have an AVR with pre-outs. That's one of the things they cut out to make the 606 fit into the price point it's in though. It's still a damn great receiver either way...and I don't regret my purchase at all, except for the lack of pre-outs. Oh well...I'll either sell mine to help fund the purchase of an 806, or I'll get an 806 and retire the 606 to bedroom duty.

wutadumsn23

+1 Curt, sorry Dune he is right only way to hook up an external amp through your AVR is with pre-outs which the 605/606 lacks. Other than that it is an all around good receiver for the price.

Dune

Oh well. Thanks for the responses.

dkwrrt

Does anyone know off hand if the 705 has pre-outs. I also just got montour 50's for my fronts and a cs1 center speaker. They haven't got here yet... Oh the wait, but i already own a 705 not a 706 onkyo that i bought last year. The reason i ask is i was considering bi-amping my fronts and still using my surrounds because as i understand it with a 7.1 capable system you can still run a 5.1 bi-amped system. Is that right? And is it really worth the trouble?

Dune

I believe it does....

wutadumsn23

Yes, the 705 has pre-outs. It is pretty much the same as the 706, and it does too. I believe the 705/706 is the "lowest" model number that Onkyo puts pre-outs on since the 605/606 does not have them.