Tube Amp Kit

zingo
zingo Posts: 11,258
edited January 2008 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
Has anyone used or experienced a good DIY tube amp kit? I want a project, but want a quality/audiophile product when I am finished. Thanks for any info.
Jake
Post edited by zingo on
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited December 2007
    I have the Welborne Ultrapath bp coming soon . . . http://www.welbornelabs.com/ultra.htm

    Mine is built by the manufacturer, but you can buy it in kit form.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2007
    Thanks for the link. They have LOTS of cool stuff.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2007
    I found this one:

    http://s5electronics.com/l16stereo.html

    What do you think?
    Jake
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  • strider
    strider Posts: 2,568
    edited December 2007
    Have you taken a look at the Bottlehead stuff?
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    The little S5 amps good values, believe it or not. We have their original stereo "amp on a board", the K-12 (ca. 8 wpc PP 11BM8). Their new amps should be fine,too. You'll need to buy, or build, a case if you really want to use the amp.

    The Bottlehead stuff is very nice but low powered, requiring very efficient speakers. I have a pair of Paramours (SE 2A3) and the excellent Seduction phono preamp. The point to point configuration of the Bottlehead kits (while arguably "better") does make them a little more challenging to build, IMO.

    For a beginner, I think that the resurrected Dynakit clones would be an ideal start at a reasonable price. I'd recommend the ST-35 PP EL84 power amp.
    www.dynakitparts.com

    There are other good kit values from, for example, Transcendent Audio (Bruce Rozenblit, preamp and OTL power amps), Jim Hagerman (phono preamps, preamps, and other accessories), Juicy Music (Mark Deneen, phono preamp).

    EDIT:

    The original K-12 kit from S5, in their case kit (this one's gone to college with two kids at this point and is still going strong):

    K-121.jpg

    The innards of my Bottlehead Seduction, with the original (unshielded) power transformer:

    P1020755.jpg


    EDIT^2: Ron Welborne's been having a spate of "customer satisfaction" problems lately, so caveat emptor. I've bought parts from Ron a couple of times in years past with no problem, but lately the word on his venture isn't so positive.
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  • bikerboy
    bikerboy Posts: 1,211
    edited December 2007
    Hi,
    I havent built an amp kit yet but have a couple of Jim Hagerman's other kits. I think he would have a great amp but it is low powered like all the kits out there. I know he makes great sounding stuff and with the forum and his support you get help if you have questions or problems. I have ordered from Welbourne and didnt get any response for weeks let alone the stuff I ordered. Hagerman stuff was here in days. The S5 amp looks good, maybe great if hotrodded. FYI on the DIY
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRPTT: Nothingham Spacedeck-> Pioneer PL L1000 linear arm-> Soundsmith DL 103R-> SUT->Bottlehead ErosDigital: I3 PC w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY Vinyl rips: ESI Juli@24/192-> i3 PC server
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2007
    Zingo, while we're on this topic, I hope you don't mind if I ask about pre-amps.
    I like the Bottlehead kit, but are there any others recommended for a first time DIY'er who's good with a iron?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    There are websites with "upgrade" info on the little S5 amp kits, if you dig around a bit.
    Here's one on the original K-12M amp: http://www.siteswithstyle.com/VoltSecond/K-12M_AMP/K-12M_Push_Pull.html

    S5 uses cheap NOS tubes that "the parade passed by" to make clever, interesting, cheap and good sounding amplifiers. They're also easy to build, being essentially a single PCB and the transformers and other ancillary hardware.

    you can read a glowing :-) review of the original K-12 amp here:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/K-124.jpg

    K-124.jpg
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    Preamps: Check out Transendent's grounded grid preamp kit, too.
    http://www.transcendentsound.com/preampkit.htm
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,842
    edited December 2007
    That S5 L16 amp is awesome but you can get it cheaper. Search around.

    IIRC, it's based off of a popular little giant killer of an amp that was originally designed by George Fathauer ( http://www.users.qwest.net/~tubes/ )and has been copied over and over again by many companies who threw together a kit to sell. The kits are a push-pull tube amplifier that supplies up to 8W of power. The kit has various versions that have come with 11MS8, 11BM8 and 10GV8 triode-pentode tubes. According to a quick history on DIYAudioProjects.com. S-5 seems to be a favorite of most people but I like the site below. The kit is cheaper and AES's service has been absolutly spectacular!

    Go here:
    http://www.tubesandmore.com/

    and look under Kits -> Audio and this frame should pop up:
    http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts/foxweb.dll/catalog@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?PAGE=SUBCAT&SEARCH_TREE01=27_KITS&SEARCH_TREE02=AUDIO

    I bought that same little tube amp a while ago and slammed it together in a couple of hours. Turned it on and hooked it up to a pair of KLH 17's and used an old Sony Car Discman as a source and proceeded to impress tons of people both regular joes and "audiophiles" alike with that little giant killer.

    It's simple to put together and since it doesn't come with a case, you can make it look any way you want. Antique Electronic Supply also sells a mono-block version of the same amp.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2007
    Thanks for the help Jstas. I am looking at getting the 16w stereo version. I saw a mod where the tubes sockets were wired off the board so they sit on the case. Now I just need to find a cool case...
    03-K-502-PCB.jpg
    Jake
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    This isn't meant to discourage you but: If you decide to "offshore" the tube sockets as shown in the photo, at the very least you'll want to twist the filament supply wires together. I would think hum might still be a problem without careful wiring, so be prepared to experiment a bit.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2007
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    This isn't meant to discourage you but: If you decide to "offshore" the tube sockets as shown in the photo, at the very least you'll want to twist the filament supply wires together. I would think hum might still be a problem without careful wiring, so be prepared to experiment a bit.

    Noted, and thanks. You guys are always so good to me. :p
    Jake
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited December 2007
    I've looked at that little K-12 amp kit off and on for quite some time. Don't know why.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    It sounds way better than it has a right to, even bone stock.
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,842
    edited December 2007
    madmax wrote: »
    I've looked at that little K-12 amp kit off and on for quite some time. Don't know why.

    Because you want it!

    I still have plans to get a pile of the mono-blocks and build a home theater rig out of it for a bedroom or something. I figure something like Outlaw's HT Pre-amp strapped to a bunch of those with say a pile of the KLH 17's I have would make a kick-**** HT!


    Oh and mhardy is absolutly correct! It sounds better than it has a right too! It'll trounce damn near anything CC or BB has to offer in quality and it'll best quite a few units costing hundreds and sometimes thousands more. Even George Grand was a tad on the impressed side with that mighty mite!
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    Even George Grand was a tad on the impressed side with that mighty mite!
    oy....
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  • analog97
    analog97 Posts: 328
    edited December 2007
    I've built about 6-7 kits from Jim Hagerman. These are flat-out tremendous. He is an engineer specializing in tubes, analog and high-end sound. His product support is superb. For example, his tubed Cornet2 phono pre-amp is arguably the most bang for the buck available. Check his stuff out at hagtech.com
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  • strider
    strider Posts: 2,568
    edited December 2007
    analog97 wrote: »
    I've built about 6-7 kits from Jim Hagerman. These are flat-out tremendous. He is an engineer specializing in tubes, analog and high-end sound. His product support is superb. For example, his tubed Cornet2 phono pre-amp is arguably the most bang for the buck available. Check his stuff out at hagtech.com

    Do you have any thoughts on the Bugle?
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2007
    analog97 wrote: »
    I've built about 6-7 kits from Jim Hagerman. These are flat-out tremendous. He is an engineer specializing in tubes, analog and high-end sound. His product support is superb. For example, his tubed Cornet2 phono pre-amp is arguably the most bang for the buck available. Check his stuff out at hagtech.com
    I like the look of his pre-amp kit, but I don't like having to source all the parts myself. Leaves too much room for error.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • analog97
    analog97 Posts: 328
    edited December 2007
    I built the Bugle and it excellent. I am in the process of putting the Bugle in a custom case, giving it a power supply and using upgraded RCA's. Many others have done this and there is plenty of info on his site about this. The Bugle was rated a Stereophile Recommended Component. Hagerman knows what he's doing.

    Sourcing of parts is quite easy. Hagerman provides pre-loaded parts lists for his projects from Digi-key, Mouser, etc. He also provides info about capacitor upgrades for those who want better. I followed his recommendations and built both the tubed preamplifier (Clarinet) and phono pre-amplifier (Cornet2).
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    The Bugle is a best buy (not to be confused with Best Buy)
    Take a look at this, if you've not seen it...
    http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/403hansen2090.pdf
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2007
    analog97 wrote: »
    Sourcing of parts is quite easy. Hagerman provides pre-loaded parts lists for his projects from Digi-key, Mouser, etc. He also provides info about capacitor upgrades for those who want better. I followed his recommendations and built both the tubed preamplifier (Clarinet) and phono pre-amplifier (Cornet2).
    I just went through the manual/instructions, and you're correct, sourcing the correct parts doesn't appear too difficult. But, the directions aren't simple enough for me. It appears the Bottlehead kit might be a better choice.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • analog97
    analog97 Posts: 328
    edited December 2007
    The Bottlehead is a point-point wired device, substantially more difficult to make than a Bugle. But, there are apples and oranges lurking here. The Bugle is $50. It is an easy build. I did it! :) It was built by Hagerman to basically PROVE what can be achieved in high quality analog play-back for a more than modest sum. Imagine what can be achieved by his Cornet2, a 4-tube, extremely high quality phono pre-amp. I have a strong opinion on this because I have one. Does that make me biased?:):) This cost me about $500 to build. Wow!! Ask Carl. He has heard this phono preamp thru a Rega P3/2000, Denon 103, Hagerman PICCOLO, Polk 1.2 TL's. After this, I believe we split only "fine hairs" in sound reproduction.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2007
    If his instructions were a little more detailed I would jump all over it.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • analog97
    analog97 Posts: 328
    edited December 2007
    By all means, stay within your comfort zone. I just wanted to help inform you. There are perils in point-point devices. Let us know how your Bottlehead project turns out.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    The Bottlehead is a point-point wired device, substantially more difficult to make than a Bugle.
    I would agree. The Bottlehead layout tends to be clever but a little cramped. A PCB-based project is a notch easier for a beginner. That said, a poor-quality PCB (or even a pretty good one) can easily be damaged (foil trace "dislodged") by an overzealous solderer applying too much heat for too long.
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  • analog97
    analog97 Posts: 328
    edited December 2007
    I saw a mod where the tubes sockets were wired off the board so they sit on the case.

    What the heck is this? I use a lot of tube gear and am having trouble imagining changing tubes into this kinda contraption. Tube sockets need to be hard soldered to a PCB for rigidity. What am I missing here?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,895
    edited December 2007
    The sockets wouldn't be PCB sockets, but point to point sockets, screwed to the enclosure (top), with the PCB mounted below it on offsets (or screwed to the bottom of the chassis/enclosure.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2007
    Sorry for not clarifying this remote socket can of worms. It would be in a point to point wiring set-up.
    As much fun as this kit looks, I should probably wait until the funds recharge after Christmas. (And just getting a tube pre from Gator doesn't help either)
    Jake
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