Do I need an extra amp for my new polks?

CAvolleyballguy

I decided to upgrade my home theater (and music, I only have 1 setup).

old system:
I bought a new blu-ray player and my old kenwood 5.1 couldnt decipher the HD surround sound, so it is coming out in stereo. I have the original bose cubes accoustimas module.

New system:
I decided on the Onkyo tx-sr705 100wpc 7.1 system.
I was thinking of using the bose 301's to add the two extra speakers as a cheap option, but my buddy, a B&W devotee, nixed that idea and suggested the polks for my price range ( He told me to stop messing with silly little speakers and pushed the price range way up).

I was ready to purchase the rti12's but I read a review that said if you dont have extra adcoms to push them dont bother, so I backed off because another 1400 or 2800 bucks on amps is not an option.

So now I am ready to buy the rti10's and the csi5. (i'm going to use my bose cubes for the 4 rear surround channels, i know, I know, but additional cost is an issue, I will replace with real polk speakers later, I also share a house with my cousin and will most likely be in a townhouse solo again so space and noise levels are also the issue since I will barely even push the polks I'm getting)

Do I really need an extra amp or amps to push the 10's. Do the 12's really require it. I would prefer the 12's (only a $100 price difference at amazon) and get the extra ampage down the road if I wanted when I get my own house. Should I not even be looking at the rti series without the extra ampage, should I save money and just go lower level to the monitors or rm8000.

My goal was to buy enough speaker to not outgrow it and maximize it down the road, but if it is bad for the speaker or will not sound good, no point in that either..

Thanks for your suggestions...This is my christmas gift to myself, so I am eagerly waiting to purchase it all. $2000 is my max budget on the total upgrade including the onkyo. Open to all suggestions. Clarity and quality is my primary concern. More bass will be nice after 10 years of the bose cubes. (I have a monster sub i used to use, but I left it in NJ a year ago). I'll probably end up getting the psw505 too(or the matched sub to whatever towers you suggest)

xandra

The short answer: stick with the 10's.

The long answer:
I have pretty much the same (Onkyo 705 & RTi10's)... and must say that even with the 10's. an Amp would be preferable... wouldn't touch the 12's without one.

I ended up bi-amping the the 10's (per Onkyos instructions, using the surround back terminals, (naturally this means I'm now running 5.1 system rather than a 7.1.) this made quite a difference: primarily in Bass but did also significantly improved clarity.

There's an ongoing disagreement as to whether Bi-Amping is a viable alternative -- so be sure to search around here to get other opinions. I can only speak from my own very limited experience.

Should you decide do this (bi-amp), I'll bet you'll find the Bass VERY robust (you likely be satisfied just by enabling the 'double-bass' feature - which I'd definitely disable for classical music).

Thus far, I don't know if more power would improve things significantly - unfortunately there's no way to know without forking up considerable cash.

ben62670

Buy a used Adcom, or Parasound. Others will chime in with different brands they recommend. $500 used amp is plenty sufficient. You could keep your eyes open for a while and do much better than that. I sold an Adcom GFA-5400 here for $200 plus shipping. It is 130 watts at 8 ohms, and 200 at 4. Please do not read into the watts numbers, and try to compare it to a receiver. It would be like comparing a head unit in a car to a nice small amp. Example typical head unit says 45x4. My A/D/S is 35x4, and kicks the crap out of most amps 2 times or more than its rated power. My analogy is slightly over done here, but you get the point. I personally would look for an Adcom GFA-555 200x2 8ohms. You can find them as low as $300 in decent shape.

BTW
Welcome to Club Polk

Sherardp

get the 12s and just hold off on really over cranking them. Later on you can add the amp when finances allow. I was running my 12s for a short period of time off my AVR, then I bought monoblock amps from Outlaw Audio. Something to consider since they go for a very cheap price on Audiogon.com or you can buy direct from outlawaudio.com. Check out the M2200. That would hold you over for a long time.

Welcome to the club

Kex

I would not get 10s or 12s if you do not plan on getting extra amplification before you blow the tweeters (within a reasonable period: twelve months perhaps). Otherwise just get RTi8, and even they would likely benefit greatly from extra amps, but should still sound pretty good without them. I'm about to amp four RT55 and a CS400 which have similar characteristics to the RTi8 in a (rather large) bookshelf form, so I'll be able to tell you what I think on the subject first hand in a few days/couple of weeks.

Both the RTi10 and RTi12 have those extra woofers to drive which probably most AVRs cannot accomplish properly.

CAvolleyballguy

Thank you very much for the suggestions.

Now I am considering 2 things. If I go for the amps, i get the 12s, do I also amp the center chanel. So say I get the adcom 5400 used for 500 do I also need to get one for the center. Or am I better off using the m2200 monoblock and getting three??? in uncharted territory here.

Finally. what if I scratch the whole idea and just get the monitor 60's for now as my left and right, will they sound good as left and rights without an amp, and will they be a good choice as rear surround in the future if I decided to go to the rti12s as fronts.

Kex

I would prefer an RTi pair such as RTi8, RTi6 or RTi4 for your fronts. Preferably one of the first two choices if you think you will be adding RTi12 in the future.

There are also some great deals on multi-channel amps from Emotiva right now, BTW, if that helps, starting at $500 for the LPA-1. I am not convinced the LPA-1 would really get something like the RTi12 singing though, with those woofers, but the new LPA-2 will be available in the new year. Affordable power that has been getting great reviews.

http://www.emotiva.com/amplifiers.html

ben62670

You could get the 5400 for about $250. The 555 for about $350. I just sell here a little cheaper. Keep it in the family kinda thing.

cfrizz

Welcome to CP!

All speakers benefit from lots of power. Having said that, if you really want the 12's then get them. Just don't turn up the volume past the half way point, or you put them & your receiver at risk. It should sound fine, it just won't be getting the power to operate to their full potential. But it will sound good enough until you can get more power.

Make sure you get a receiver that has preamp outputs so that you can add external amps later on. Getting 3 Outlaw Monoblocks is a great idea for the front stage. Also keep an eye on Audiogon for a good deal on a Parasound, Outlaw, Sunfire, Adcom, Rotel amp.

ben62670

cfrizz wrote: »

Welcome to CP!

All speakers benefit from lots of power. Having said that, if you really want the 12's then get them. Just don't turn up the volume past the half way point, or you put them & your receiver at risk. It should sound fine, it just won't be getting the power to operate to their full potential. But it will sound good enough until you can get more power.

Make sure you get a receiver that has preamp outputs so that you can add external amps later on. Getting 3 Outlaw Monoblocks is a great idea for the front stage. Also keep an eye on Audiogon for a good deal on a Parasound, Outlaw, Sunfire, Adcom, Rotel amp.

agreed;)
Audiogon.com is a good place to look. You might pay a little more than careful hunting on Ebay, but Agon is an audiophile site.

CAvolleyballguy

Thank you very much for everyone's suggestions. I have made my initial purchase.
I ordered the onkyo 705, the rti6 as temporary fronts and the psw505 for permanent base. At the end of january I get my bonus for the killer 4th quarter i posted and I will be using some of those funds to get the rti12s, the csi5 and either the 200w adcoms or the 3, 200w monoblocks. I think that should resolve my Home theater audio challenges. And of course the rti6s will find themselves behind me on the wall. Thank you again for your suggestions and if anyone has amps they would like to sell me, drop me a line.

cfrizz

Congrats & let us know how it all sounds!

Kex

Well done CAvolleyballguy!

64met

I am in somewhat a similar situation as CA volleyballguy; I recently moved over to the Onkyo 805 (130 watts) and pairing it with rti10's; csi5 and fxi3. I am no audio expert but I just can't seem to get the 10's to get going! I was looking at an amp to help out and get them moving! I love the look of the Emotiva; but man those things are huge! Might not have enough room; I was also looking at the Outlaw Mono blocks (200 watts per) Given my stated space restrictions; do U all think the Mono blocks is the way to go? I can pick up two of them for under $550 right now... or is there another option that you can recommend pairing with my Polks?

ThxS!!

ben62670

I have heard many good things about Outlaw for HT. I am not sure I would want them if music is your main thing.

64met

My viewing/listening is probably 70% HD Movies; 30% CD's... The Mono series I like due to its size... I could stack three of them... for up front.

ben62670

64met wrote: »

My viewing/listening is probably 70% HD Movies; 30% CD's... The Mono series I like due to its size... I could stack three of them... for up front.

3 of them would add up to more than one big one. Also please make sure you have at least 3 inches of breathing room above them, and you should also have 2 inches on either side.

WilliamM2

Is there any Polk speaker that does not require a seperate amp? I amazed anyone buys them...:rolleyes:

cfrizz

All of them run without separate amplification, however, they ALL sound better with it.

Maybe back in the good old days of just 2 channel it didn't really matter, & the only ones who cared were audiophiles.

But with the advent of the internet, knowledge is power & I think we are doing the owners of Polk speakers a big service by letting them know the truth of what their speakers are really capable of when provided with plenty of power!

I was happy for 15 yrs running my RTA-8T's off of a 50wpc amp & then a 110wpc receiver. I thought I had it good & they sounded great. But I'm a whole lot happier now that I know how much better they sound with 200wpc.

I don't see anything wrong with helping people get the best out of what they have with good speakers like Polk.

WilliamM2

All of them run without separate amplification, however, they ALL sound better with it.

Of course all speakers sound better with quality power behind them, not just Polk's. I understand this, and have been running seperate amps for over 25 years. But his question was "Do I really need an amp?", the simple answer is no.

But with the advent of the internet, knowledge is power & I think we are doing the owners of Polk speakers a big service by letting them know the truth of what their speakers are really capable of when provided with plenty of power!

I just wonder how many new users are scared away from Polk speakers, due to the constant claims that you need a good amp to make them sound good.

CAvolleyballguy

Wow, I didnt think I would start such a "thought provoking" discussion. As a new user I will tell you. I was not scared away from polk as a whole. First of all, as a complete newbie to hi fi, I did not even really know the name. It meant nothing to me, my buddy who is an audiophile suggested it.

So I began looking. Like most men, I saw the line and said I want bigger, no bigger, no bigger. Then reality of price set in and I said, Ok, little smaller. little smaller. I settled in on the RTi line. now without tapping myself on the back, I dont know how many people go from a bose 5 cube system on a 100wpc kenwood, to the RTi line with an adcom in less than 48 hours. But...I am single, No wife approval needed, and I had some disposable cash set aside for the AV upgrade. The point being, I dont think most men are allowed to go from 5 little cubes to two giant towers without the wife going bananas. I dont think most people make that jump anyway. I think it is usually a more progressive thing, and along that progression they learn what they need to.

I know I could have chosen from the rm8000 or monitor line and the sound would have been more full than I was getting with the cubes and I could run them straight on the avr. Also the first suggestion I received was a sub. which alone would have filled in a lot of the missing base.

so to chime in on the question at hand. I dont think new users are scared away from the polks, they are probably scared back to where they should be based on the reality of their budget. Based on the mistake I almost made, getting the rti12s with no amps, anyone who makes that mistake I think is spending too much on a speaker and getting less quality sound than they would with a lesser speaker properly matched....??? Which in the end is what you want. Because I dont want someone buying the same speakers I just did and setting them up in a way that they do not sound any better than a speaker half the quality. Then that gives the brand a bad name. I think knowledge in this area helps preserve your brand quality...which is exactly what this board does....doesn't it???

CAvolleyballguy

By the way. The reception at this board to newbies is very nice...awesome even. Ben provided some help offline in emails and even offered a number to call with questions... That's Really cool imo. It appears there are a lot of quality guys here. Either that or a lot of guys that need to sell some old equipment :-) By the way since my last post, I sniper bidded my first ebay purchase ever and picked up a used adcom 5400 to power the rti6s. Thanks for the suggestions on where and how to pick up the right equipment. This board is very cool indeed...

hearingimpared

Well it looks like you are good to go so I'll just say, Welcome CAvoleyballguy!

BTW Ben is full of ****, don't listen to a word he says!!!:D:D:D

hearingimpared

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Of course all speakers sound better with quality power behind them, not just Polk's. I understand this, and have been running seperate amps for over 25 years. But his question was "Do I really need an amp?", the simple answer is no.



I just wonder how many new users are scared away from Polk speakers, due to the constant claims that you need a good amp to make them sound good.

I think it is more that to really make them sing . . .

vonnie123

My Adcom GFA 555 was sick this week and had to be removed for an internal fuse replacement. I hooked up the Yammie 7.1 up for all channels instead of just the center and surrounds until I could track down the proper replacment fuse, and I could really tell the difference pulling my mains (3 sets) off the amp and hooking them up to the receiver. Having the separate amp is clearly the ticket IMHO. A used AMP can be had at a very reasonable price.

mrbigbluelight

Well, I'm a day late and a dollar short, but Fry's has Rti's for $149 each.

(Cherry only).

http://shop4.outpost.com/%7B9AKBbQHoLSaNuSYD+qDU5Q**.node2%7D/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&query_string=rti&cat=

$16 shipping to the midwest.

CAvolleyballguy wrote:

By the way. The reception at this board to newbies is very nice...awesome even.

Believe me, some of the folks on here appreciate hearing that.