2 Speakers, Full Range

Ricardo

For 95% of music, mid 30's will be enough. IMO.

Edit: don't forget that one thing is the speaker's specs, and another what they will actually get in different rooms.

BaggedLancer

You're right about Vr3MxStyler2k3, he needs atleast 4 subs to be happy, more along the lines of 6.

Early B.

Sona wrote: »

My question is really how low do two speakers have to dig for you to consider them truly full range? I read a thread not so long ago in which many said they would run the 9's happily without a sub.

Full range really means digging down to 20 Hz.

IMO, there's no point having a punk **** floorstander that cums at around 25 Hz or higher, regardless of whether a sub is used.

BaggedLancer

Now that's an interesting choice of words to describe a speaker!

steveinaz

I guess technically they'd have to reach 20hz to be considered truly full-range, but I agree with Ricardo that the mid-30's is about all you need for the vast majority of music. The deepest digging towers I ever had were Pinnacle Classic Gold Towers. They were down 3dB @ 27Hz, and numerous reviews supported that specification--pretty amazing for a 37" tall tower. They were a dual 8" & 1" tweeter speaker with Pinnacles patented tri-duct bass ports---it worked.

TroyD

I'd say that 35hz -3db is full range. That said, when I had the LSi9's, I really didn't feel that I missed a sub.

Blending a sub, seamlessly, isn't always a simple proposition. Again, quality, not quantity.

20hz is a crock. There aren't many subs that go that low let alone speakers.

BDT

Early B.

Keep in mind that the frequency spec is only one indication of the sonic merits of a speaker. A true full range speaker is more likely to have a bigger soundstage, greater power handling capabilities, and more body or weight to the music than a typical floorstander. Full range speakers are often huge mofos with multiple 10" or 12" drivers, and they usually represent the top-of-the-line models for speaker manufacturers (best drivers, best crossover components, etc.).

Bottom line -- a full range speaker offers more than deep bass.

nms

Early B. wrote: »

Keep in mind that the frequency spec is only one indication of the sonic merits of a speaker. A true full range speaker is more likely to have a bigger soundstage, greater power handling capabilities, and more body or weight to the music than a typical floorstander. Full range speakers are often huge mofos with multiple 10" or 12" drivers, and they usually represent the top-of-the-line models for speaker manufacturers (best drivers, best crossover components, etc.).

Bottom line -- a full range speaker offers more than deep bass.

Would you consider Vintage M10s or SDA 2As full range speakers? I'm just wondering, because to my ears they definitely don't need a sub.

tonyb

Whats Doro always say...."go large or go home"...Like that one.

Though I like Brad's creative use of words to describe a full range speaker,me thinks somewhere in the low 30's is more appropriate.All full range floorstanders are not created equal as we all know,as well as speaker design comes into play.Also the never ending room accoustics can determine what your getting.Specs are a guideline,not a final result of what you can get in your own home.

nms

Part of me wants the skinny speaker/dinky driver fad to end, or at least make some space for ones with big woofers.

Ya just need to buy old Polks!: 12" passive planar radiator on mine. I don't need no stinkin' subwoofer!

Face

Early B. wrote: »

Keep in mind that the frequency spec is only one indication of the sonic merits of a speaker. A true full range speaker is more likely to have a bigger soundstage, greater power handling capabilities, and more body or weight to the music than a typical floorstander. Full range speakers are often huge mofos with multiple 10" or 12" drivers, and they usually represent the top-of-the-line models for speaker manufacturers (best drivers, best crossover components, etc.).

Bottom line -- a full range speaker offers more than deep bass.

Excellent post, but you left out 15" drivers. My Tannoys can dig down to the high 30's. A buddy of mine is going to make me new cabinets over the winter, they're going to be tuned to 35hz. There's really need to go lower unless you're listening to organs or using them for HT.

SKsolutions

While I can dig the huge mofos, and like to get low, there is the flipside that I often struggle with. Well made stand mount speakers can give similar response, but with an openness to them that most floorstanders lack. Given the same space and the smaller baffle area, the soundstage can actually seem larger and more convincing, even while having less bass response. Some of the benefits of having a full range speaker become deficits when you try to place them in the room. The low end doesn't like the placement that is good for the mid/high, and you sacrifice one or the other until you get your compromise. I'm in the bookshelf camp at the moment, but the next acquisition is likely to be a 'full range', floorstander because there is a new pet coming. . . and that's a good excuse to grab some Dynaudio, used of course.

TroyD

Sona wrote: »

Okay, thanks I'll have to learn how low I need a speaker to go, and understand by hearing what it does to music so I can make a decision.

I did find a speaker that goes down to 18 cycles (salesperson claim anyway) which I really enjoyed.

Still, in my speaker auditions I've come across a type that I've dubbed the flygirl: thin, pleasantly toned speakers. They're nice in their own way, but I'm not sure how much bass I want to sacrifice.

Part of me wants the skinny speaker/dinky driver fad to end, or at least make some space for ones with big woofers.

I'd be curious to know what speaker the salesman was referring to. Now, it may hit 18hz at, oh, -20db....but it's irrelevant. Anything more than -6db isn't worth mentioning.

Again, I wouldn't get to wrapped around the axle about specs. Find a speaker that suits your tastes, worry about specs later.

BDT

Ferres

Tracy Chapman 'Where you live' CD. Track 3 at 1:43min into the track. Listen for a distant series of thumps. If you're speakers can deliver that well defined thump, I think your ok.

Yashu

Blending a sub, seamlessly, isn't always a simple proposition.

I have talked about this in previous threads... it is always better to try to get your sound from your two speakers... trying to put a third driver somewhere (almost random) else in the room makes it very hard to have a seemless sound, not to mention the trouble crossing over from one to the other... do you use the sub's crossover with no hi-pass? do you use the hi-pass on the sub? Do you buy an external sub crossover, or do you use the LFE on the receiver and end up with having to deal with trying to have a high end 2 channel system with a digital receiver and a single mono LFE channel.

It is just plain easier to get two speakers that have the range of sound you want. I agree, mid 30s will make you forget about needing a sub.

If you have ever heard a system with a really big sub, you will know that a lot of music isn't made to have that kind of setup, and that there are some weird things that the recording engineers generally don't expect you to hear, or that they didn't even know where there when they used nearfield monitors to master the album. Some albums really do sound like crap with a sub.

I look at subs more as a tool for HT, not really a 2 channel thing... they call it 2 channel, not 2.1 channel. So, from a purist standpoint, a sub and "sat" system would not be optimal vs. a fill range set of speakers.

Ferres

The thing is, if you're going to tune a sub for music to blend with your speakers. It will probably not be loud enough for HT use, so a dedicated separate sub for HT would be needed. If not, you'll be changing settings constantly.

Some movie soundtracks have LFE's though.