"Breaking In" Speakers

Ricardo

I always play new speakers behind a blanket, an acoustic panel, cotton candy and pubic hair from 3 virgins. I let them play for 2 years, and only then they are ready to be enjoyed.

dorokusai

Ricardo wrote: »

I always play new speakers behind a blanket, an acoustic panel, cotton candy and pubic hair from 3 virgins. I let them play for 2 years, and only then they are ready to be enjoyed.

Well, that actually makes sense to me but I find that the teenage runaway that I keep in the same closet, Rob Zombie on loop, often gets in the way.

beardog03

I heard a long time ago that dirty underwear / socks help with break in / sound quality

YMMstink

Ricardo

beardog03 wrote: »

I heard a long time ago that dirty underwear / socks help with break in / sound quality

YMMstink

That works only for ribbons/planar.

beardog03

oh...

better take the stinky draws outta my SVS ports

Kpt_Krunch

MacLeod wrote: »

Yup. Speakers are mechanical devices and just like the motor in your car, they need time to break in and even warm up.

That's very true. Just like you wouldn't red line a brand new car driving it off the lot (unless you had a lot of money and wanted to blow your engine) then I would take it easy on speakers for a few hours anyway.

But if anyone thinks the sound changes - at least dramatically, please, pm me, I have lots of top quality grade A junk I'd love to sell you. I'll give you a good price, honest.

People - there are not audible differences in the sound. What happens is over time your EARS and your BRAIN get used to them.

I proved it - I recently bougth some Energy RC-70 towers. Energy recommends a 100 hour break in. Unfortunately, one of my towers had a damaged corner, so I had to exchange it. Fortunately (for this discussion) - the store I bought it from did not have any left (I bought the last pair they had - the one box was damaged on the outside and we noted it). It took three weeks to get another pair in. I could have gone to another store, but I purposely didn't. They let me keep the 'damaged' (strictly cosmetic) speaker while waiting for the next order to arrive.

I put about 60 hours or so on them, maybe a bit more. I then returned the one. I now have one BRAND NEW RC-70, and one 60 hour plus RC-70. I noted the serial number, I then had a friend hook it up for me (I didn't watch to see what was where.

Three of us listened to both speakers - WE COULD NOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between the two.... THEY SOUNDED IDENTICAL (I'm not shouting, I'm emphasizing my point).

So, IMO - case is closed.

You guys realize (and a couple of people here arleady brought it up) - the reason for the 'break-in' is so you don't go running back to return the speakers after only a few hours. A lot of people when getting new speakers have grown so accustomed to their 'old' speakers that they miss them. But, if you listen to your new ones for 100 hours or so.... gee, guess what?

Mechanically, sure, you need to work them in a bit (a few hours at most IMO - most will say 5 minutes) but sound wise, they'll sound the same. If there was sonic changes, what if you didn't like them after the fact?

cfrizz

Ahhh common sense reigns at last.

I bet when everyone was first starting out they didn't know squat about so called breakin & thought their speakers were the greatest since sliced bread right out of the box!

Now give some a little bit of knowledge & a self proclaimed title of "audiophile" & they are hearing stuff that you need a bionic ear for.

If your brand new speakers sound like crap in your own home when you first play them then you need to get another pair that you actually like to hear, cause you obviously didn't hear them in the store.

BaggedLancer

cfrizz wrote: »

Ahhh common sense reigns at last.

I bet when everyone was first starting out they didn't know squat about so called breakin & thought their speakers were the greatest since sliced bread right out of the box!

Now give some a little bit of knowledge & a self proclaimed title of "audiophile" & they are hearing stuff that you need a bionic ear for.

If your brand new speakers sound like crap in your own home when you first play them then you need to get another pair that you actually like to hear, cause you obviously didn't hear them in the store.

I agree except for the fact you need to hear them in the proper store. Poor store display demos will often give poor impressions. Because many stores demos are out in the open or pile in a small room with 30 other pairs of speakers you all too often don't get an accurate opinion.

Best thing to do, if you remotely think you like them...buy them, bring them home, listen to them. If you don't like them then return them, if you do like them then keep them.

cfrizz

Agreed Mark. You can get a pretty good idea of what a speaker sounds like in Tweeter, Best Buys that have a Magnolia shop attached to it. And naturally places like Goodwin & Spirit Sound.

If you want to get speakers at a big store than choose very carefully the time & day that you go. It should not be on the weekend when everyone & their brother/sister is going to be in the store. Go in the middle of the week during mid morning when everyone else is at work or in school.

BaggedLancer wrote: »

I agree except for the fact you need to hear them in the proper store. Poor store display demos will often give poor impressions. Because many stores demos are out in the open or pile in a small room with 30 other pairs of speakers you all too often don't get an accurate opinion.

Best thing to do, if you remotely think you like them...buy them, bring them home, listen to them. If you don't like them then return them, if you do like them then keep them.

Face

BaggedLancer wrote: »

I agree except for the fact you need to hear them in the proper store. Poor store display demos will often give poor impressions. Because many stores demos are out in the open or pile in a small room with 30 other pairs of speakers you all too often don't get an accurate opinion.

You can have the opposite too. My local B&W seller uses fully treated rooms.

BaggedLancer

Face wrote: »

You can have the opposite too. My local B&W seller uses fully treated rooms.

I'd rather listened in a fully treated room than a half **** space. This way I know the full potential of the speakers should I decide to upgrade my room conditions.

markmarc

Once again I will point out scientific measurements proving that break-in does exist.
http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.shtm
The fact is that speaker cones are made of materials that flex, stretch, and minutely change shape. Those things do change the sonic characteristic of speakers. The changes affect the vibration of the cone which creates the sound. Anybody who has heard the RTi tweeters right out of the box knows how tinny they can sound. Yet once stretched/flexed they become pleasant.
if you buy speakers and only listen to them for an hour a day, yes you won't be able to return them if your not satisfied after 100 hours. That is another reason to find a way to play them as much as possible as soon as you get them. Secondly, working with an independent dealer, or a ID speaker company will allow for flexibility in return time. Just make sure to stay in contact with them.

Yashu

Of course break-in is real... the people that think it's not are trying to use one time anecdotal evidence to try and support their claim and you provide hard fact that it does make a difference. Yeah a few guys came over to hang out and listened to your speakers and heard no difference, so this proves that break-in isn't real? I am rolling my eyes to that one...

Everything makes a difference... The laws of physics and quantum mechanics do not stop at your doors, people. It's even measurable!

Using car analogies like we seem to want to do here, could you imagine someone in F1 or NASCAR dropping a never used engine into their car and expecting to break records? Come on now... use your noggins.

The answer is simple... yes, speakers deserve break-in periods... and yes there are ways to speed up the process. Do whatever you like, we are not holding guns to your heads and forcing you to put your speakers in a closet or put blankets over them and run them for 3 days straight... but that doesn't mean that they aren't faster ways of breaking in a speaker.

You guys seem to be arguing about not whether break-in is real, but whether it is right to plan it or not. You treat this stuff like religion, when it really is simple science.

Face

Ricardo wrote: »

I always play new speakers behind a blanket, an acoustic panel, cotton candy and pubic hair from 3 virgins. I let them play for 2 years, and only then they are ready to be enjoyed.

How did I miss this the first time?! LOL!

Kpt_Krunch

Yashu wrote: »

Of course break-in is real... the people that think it's not are trying to use one time anecdotal evidence to try and support their claim and you provide hard fact that it does make a difference. Yeah a few guys came over to hang out and listened to your speakers and heard no difference, so this proves that break-in isn't real? I am rolling my eyes to that one...

Everything makes a difference... The laws of physics and quantum mechanics do not stop at your doors, people. It's even measurable!

Using car analogies like we seem to want to do here, could you imagine someone in F1 or NASCAR dropping a never used engine into their car and expecting to break records? Come on now... use your noggins.

The answer is simple... yes, speakers deserve break-in periods... and yes there are ways to speed up the process. Do whatever you like, we are not holding guns to your heads and forcing you to put your speakers in a closet or put blankets over them and run them for 3 days straight... but that doesn't mean that they aren't faster ways of breaking in a speaker.

You guys seem to be arguing about not whether break-in is real, but whether it is right to plan it or not. You treat this stuff like religion, when it really is simple science.

Excellent - I'm in Edmonton Canada. Tell you what, you come on over, I'll supply the beer, wine, munchies, and $1000 if you can guess 10 out of 10 what are the 'new' never heard before speakers, vs. ones that have been, er broken in. Of course, if you lose, you'll have to give me $1000.

I hope you take me up on the offer, I could use the money

tonyb

If I was in Canada,I'd take you up on that.
Break-in does not apply to all speakers,but some,due to the material used,yes,they need it.Most that need break in are on the mid to upper end of the scale.An RTI4 is not going to need it.But then,a Sonus Faber strat will.Compareing techniques used on the high end to the lower end,don't wash.It's not a one fits all kind of thing.So rather than deny something as fact,put down the dorito's,get off the couch,and go listen.

Kpt_Krunch

tonyb wrote: »

If I was in Canada,I'd take you up on that.
Break-in does not apply to all speakers,but some,due to the material used,yes,they need it.Most that need break in are on the mid to upper end of the scale.An RTI4 is not going to need it.But then,a Sonus Faber strat will.Compareing techniques used on the high end to the lower end,don't wash.It's not a one fits all kind of thing.So rather than deny something as fact,put down the dorito's,get off the couch,and go listen.

Ummm, to what? I already have Tony - many times. I'm not saying to crank up your speakers out of the box -I am saying soncially the differences you'll hear will be negligible at best - and IMO you won't hear it at all. Although, if you're a Golden Ear, here I am. Come on up and make a grand!

Kpt_Krunch

Ok -tell you what - here's another snippet from someone who probably know a little bit more about speakers than any of us do - as he BUILDS THEM! His name is Jim Salk, and this is taken from the AVS forums in the Salk owners thread.

Happy reading:

Break-in is an interesting topic I am asked about all the time.

I certainly have had many customers comment that our speakers really "open up" after 100 - 200 hours of "break-in." So obviously something is going on here. But what is it?

From all the research I have done, I think I can safely say the following in regard to the drivers themselves. There are two types of performance changes drivers go through with use. The first is mechanical in nature. From everything I have read and the experience of many designers in measuring drivers, this appears to take place in the first 1/2 hour or so and any performance changes after that are very unlikely due to mechanical break-in.

The second is thermal break-in. It takes a very short while for drivers to reach operating temperature when starting cold. This happens every time you turn your system on and start playing music. But this thermal "break-in" happens very quickly.

Based on the above, I would have to conclude that any changes that occur over 100 hours or so are not due to changes in driver performance. Which leaves only crossover performance as a possible physical explanation.

I have never done testing in this regard and have not run across any valid studies on the matter. But it is certainly possible that capacitors do become more efficient in charging and discharging with an extended break-in period. This is pure speculation on my part, but if they do, the increased speed would most likely be noticeable at the top end of the audio spectrum resulting in more micro detail.

I have had the opportunity to A/B new HT3's (after about a 20-minute driver break-in period) with HT3's that were played extensively and, try as I may, I have never been able to discern any significant performance differences. That only thing I have noticed is that the bass quality seems to improve as the rubber surround on the woofer loosens up a bit. However, this would not account for the reports I have had about the speakers "opening up" over time.

I do not doubt that people are hearing what they are hearing and their experiences are real. But I suspect that as they spend more time listening to new speakers, they become more tuned in to subtle performance characteristics they did not notice at first. To the extent that this theory has any validity, it would certainly apply to a speaker like the HT3 which is quite a bit more detailed than the speakers any given listener was likely to have prior experience with.

As I have written in the past, we all have "reference" standards as to what the ideal speaker should sound like and it is based on prior experience. There are many people who are very impressed with the sound quality of a Bose-type speaker system. But as they are exposed to higher and higher quality systems and spend more time with them, their point of reference changes. Some would say they become spoiled (I know I have with the HT3's). We have all probably experienced this first-hand.

I have always felt that this built-in frame of reference changes over time and that much of what is often described as "break-in" is related to this effect. Whether I am right or wrong about this is certainly debatable.

From my perspective, regardless of what the source of this break-in phenomenon is, it is real as far as the listener is concerned. And as long as they are extremely happy with the turn of events, that is all that really matters. Whatever the source of this phenomena, I know that if someone is happy with the speakers the first time they hear them, as with fine wine, things can only get better with time."

If you want me to translate that for you - he's basically saying that the more the listener listens to the speakers, he/she gets more used to them, and hears things that they may not have noticed right out of the box for whatever reasons.

Some people here have already said some Polks need break-in, especially the tweeter.

I bought a Csi3 once. Was horrible out of the box - tinny, bright, no depth, no bass at all really. I tried to break it in (played a track contiously through it for two straight weeks - day and night). This was about 3 or 4 years ago - I tried to use it as a center for my RT800i's. After all that um, er break-in, it sounded as horrible as it did out of the box, so back it went and and I bought a used CS400i on line (Ebay - paid too much for it too but oh well) to match my RT800i's with.

Face

What do you think of cable break-in?

cfrizz

:eek::eek::eek::eek: OHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

Now you've done it Face!:eek::D

Face wrote: »

What do you think of cable break-in?

markmarc

Mr Salk is a credit to audio, but what he says is opinion based on long-term personal experience. Which is quite fair, but he does say "That only thing I have noticed is that the bass quality seems to improve as the rubber surround on the woofer loosens up a bit." He does go on to say he doesn't believe that this is related to the opening up" that many of his customers state.
What does this tell us, at the time that Mr.Salk stated this quote is that he had not seen or done any measurements. Therefore, it behooves him to let the change fall on the adjustment of the listener. I wonder what his thoughts are on the article and measurements of Danny Ritchie of GR-Research that I posted previously.

Thanks for posting Mr. Salk's statement Kpt Krunch.

BaggedLancer

Face wrote: »

What do you think of cable break-in?

Now you're really making stuff up....almost like those hp/tq numbers on your c5.

bbeacham

I have found that taking a rubber mallet and beating each speaker cone will accelerate breaking the speakers.

Face

BaggedLancer wrote: »

Now you're really making stuff up....almost like those hp/tq numbers on your c5.

Just as there's graphs out there to back up speaker break-in, I have graphs to back up those numbers.

IMO, the quickest way to break in a pair of speakers is to just throw them down the stairs.

Ricardo

A point Jim Salk makes is IMO very valid; crossover break-in; I noticed differences in sound when changing caps and resistors in two SDA's, well after 200 hours.

BaggedLancer

Face wrote: »

Just as there's graphs out there to back up speaker break-in, I have graphs to back up those numbers.

IMO, the quickest way to break in a pair of speakers is to just throw them down the stairs.

Please, I can make excel graphs with my computer too. :rolleyes:

I agree, best way to break speakers is throw them down the stairs...but I think we're talking about breaking-in speakers?

jb33

Now that I've had them for a week or so, I honestly haven't heard a difference (of course, that doesn't mean they haven't changed, I just haven't noticed any change). I am not an "audiophile" but I still am very happy with my purchase. Thanks for the lively discussion.