What goes with the LSi15 speakers for HT?

wout

Hi all,

I have read a thread where someone asked which receiver to get with the LSi15. His budget was about 3000 so the suggestions were keeping that in mind. Reading the profiles of the people who responded I saw a few very big amp in the order of 400-500 wpc. It is quite clear that these speaker require quite a bit of power, how much is right? My budget is a bit better than 3k but not over the top crazy either. May be 6kish. I am looking at LSi15s, LSiC in front and either LSi7 or LSiFX for the surrounds. I am an old guard stereo guy from the 70s and I have no clue as to what is the current technology, pre pro what? OK I got the "pre" I think. I have the video part figured out with an HC6000 and a good source for screen material so I can build my own screen - 140"! So that leaves the audio. Question then is what components will drive the LSi15 in a nice way. How many wpc would be good? Any suggestions as to brands I should look into and which models have been hooked up to the LSi15s with what results. I am looking at the Hsu subwoofers but I read that the SVS are highly regarded here, so I wonder if anyone has had experience with the Hsu subwoofers. Thank you in advance.

engtaz

CSi5. LSi9 and or LSi7

engtaz

AndyGwis

I would check out some budget separates. Most people with LSi setups seem to like the additional power that separate amplification provides.

There are many good receivers out there that will do an admirable job, but most people do not want to run their expensive 4-ohm speakers on cheap electronics that may not be up to the task. So, I would stick with B&K, NAD, Rotel, Outlaw, and other slighly higher-end companies if you go with an AVR.

If you are open to separates, or a cheaper AVR + a separate power amp, there are endless options which have all been discusses at nauseum on the this forum. Do a search for LSI + amps or something.

You can make that $2000-$3000 go a long way. Heck, for under $1000, you can get separates from Emotiva. Check out their website for some specials they are running right now www.emotiva.com. Outlaw is another popular online seller of separates.

Happy Hunting!

Oh, HSU and SVS are both highly regarded. Get the best you can afford of either and you will be tickled (literally and figuratively).

cfrizz

Welcome Wout!

Sounds like you are going to have one rockin system.

As for power the minimum you should get is 200wpc @8ohms. Most are even happier when they have more than that. They swooned over the improvement in sound when the got Earthquake Cinenova Grande Power amps that put out 300wpc @8ohms.

That is one company. Others to look at are Parasound, Sunfire, Rotel, Outlaw, B & K.

wout

cfrizz wrote: »

Welcome Wout!

Sounds like you are going to have one rockin system.

As for power the minimum you should get is 200wpc @8ohms. Most are even happier when they have more than that. They swooned over the improvement in sound when the got Earthquake Cinenova Grande Power amps that put out 300wpc @8ohms.

That is one company. Others to look at are Parasound, Sunfire, Rotel, Outlaw, B & K.

Thanks Cfrizz, I looked at some of the reviews for the Cinenova and they are whetting my appetite considerably. I was initially not going to make things complicated, but it it running away from me, I can feel it.

So, let's see about that 6k audio budget:
Denon AVR 3806 receiver $1230 (online)
2x Hsu VT2 subwoofer $1100 (direct)
LSi15, LSiC, LSi7 $3200 approx
Cinenova $2200 approx

So far that is 7700 buckaroonies. My wife will not be surprised! (my money - no problem)

Somehow I am not sure if that is all the components that I will need. Any other compenents required?

Should I go with something else than the Denon AVR? What I like about it is that it has HDMI 1.3a and supports 1080p and the audio codecs. So it will match the HC6000 projector.

You mention 8 ohms but I have read the LSi15s take 4 ohms, this is probably something I will figure out once I get into the set up stage.

Also, I already know that it is extremely important to get good acoustics in the room and I have done some research on that, only to find that most solutions are not exactly easthetically pleasing, I'll have to probably get material and make my own.

Thanks a bunch!

McLoki

cables will run you another couple hundred bucks. (if you get inexpensive cables)

Room treatments would be a great investment with that system.

For the AVR - if you want HDMi (and there is not much reason why you wouldn't) you can get much less expensive with the features you want considering you are not going to use the amp in the AVR. (AVR = Audio/Video Reciever) I would look more in the $500-$850 range. Whatever you get, make sure it has pre-outs for all channels.

Speaker setup sounds great. (at least it does at my house... )

Not sure about the subs. HSU is a good name, but investigate offerings from HSU, SVS, eD and Epik. All are making great subs right now. What you are looking at may be perfect for you and your room, but I would investigate all 4 of the major players (speak to the manufacturers via phone or e-mail, mention your budget, room size and listening habits - see what they recommend from their line and then research from there....)

You are going to have a great system. Enjoy this part of it as well (research and purchasing) it really can be alot of fun.

Welcome to Club Polk.

Michael

Ethancf

Parasound baby! I would love to give some LSi's a run with my 2205!

Face

wout wrote: »

Should I go with something else than the Denon AVR? What I like about it is that it has HDMI 1.3a and supports 1080p and the audio codecs. So it will match the HC6000 projector.

You can check out the Onkyo TX-SR705, 805, and 875.

zingo

wout wrote: »

What goes with the LSi15 speakers for HT?

A cold beverage of your choice, and a large smile.

cfrizz

The vast majority of speakers are 8ohm compatible. So the more power an amp has at 8ohms the more power you will have when it has to push 4ohm speakers. That's why I stress the 200wpc at 8ohms.

I agree with Michael, since HDMI is important to you get a cheaper receiver that has all the bells & whistles you want it to have. You will have a hard time finding that in a prepro.

www.bluejeanscable.com is a good company to get reasonable & well made cables. The guys here support www.signalcable.com but they cost more money, so I went with BJC. They slip on & off like a dream.

You will have a built in calibrator with the Denon which is important to use once everything setup. Otherwise I would have suggested getting a SPL meter from Radio Shack.

What will you be using for cd/dvd player? HSU, Outlaw Audio, Sunfire, & other companies make very good subs. From what I hear, the new generation of subs from Polk have improved dramatically as well.

Face

cfrizz wrote: »

www.bluejeanscable.com is a good company to get reasonable & well made cables. The guys here support www.signalcable.com but they cost more money, so I went with BJC. They slip on & off like a dream.

BJC interconnects have crappy terminations IMO. Slipping on and off like a dream isn't always a good thing. I've have them slip off just from moving components around. Signal's Eichmann terminations are light years ahead.

cfrizz

Well I'm not in the habit of moving my components around. They go in their rack & that is where they stay until I upgrade a piece.

I suppose it would be a problem for people who simply just can't leave things alone.

wout

Michael: Thanks for the pre-outs suggestion and on going with a lesser power AVR. That will save $ for an amp. On other hand the 3808CI supports ethernet input which allows for listening to thousands of radiostations on the net (but not at the same time!)

I have been looking at the SVS subs also and they seem like the ticket for me. I prewired the house when I built it for two subs, one in each corner in the front of the room. (27' wide by 20' deep, 7'6" high = approx 4500 cubic ft). Luckily I have 3 inches of concrete on the floor above my basement (definite manroom, she never goes in there, every man needs his space) so the sound does not travel a whole lot, although I suspect the SVS's and the LSi15s will change that.

I have been getting excited about this and am spending many hours researching when not shoveling snow and skiing as we are getting dumped on big time, yeah! This has been a project on the drawing table for a few years but I was just working away making hay and saving $. The time has come...

Face: thanks, I did look into the 875 Onkyo but it runs hot and I want to keep my available ventilation for the big amp. That kinda DQ'ed from the list. Otherwise many fans of the Onkyo as well as the Denons. Also thx for cable suggestion.

CFrizz: Yes, the bells and whistles on the V side of the AV also count in the matrix of decision making. I did see a recent post that mentioned putting the source directly into the projector/TV and then using another gizmo to adjust all the input output connections. I did not understand what he was talking about other than it would avoid coloring the sound with the AVR...? In any case it seems like a definite complication, I'd like to avoid those as much as possible, it is already crazy enough.

Thanks for cable suggestions as well.

I have not yet selected a DVD player as the Blu ray / HD DVD war seems to muddy the picture (Hmm I did not intend that pun) But I saw there is a new DVD player out that will do both and I have seen that soe of us here simply have both. For now i was just going to hookup the Direct TV and enjoy all their HD content. I only watch for an hour a day, for the rest I play sports outside and learning the upright bass (what a project that is!) So I am patient on the DVD purchase.

So as to not shock my wife completly. She does have a threshold even with my money, I will phase into this project as follows:

Get the DIY screen and the great 1080p projector
Get a Denon AVR lower end
Get LSi9 for in the front, they will move to the surrounds later
Get the LSiC for center
Use the old smal speakers I still have for the surrounds

I think that will already sound quite good, better than anything I have ever had.

Then treat the room acoustically, another great DIY project. This will show me how much of a difference this makes to a set up I will already have been listening to. To be posted here for sure.

Then - wham - add:
2 SVS Ultra subs
2 LSi15s
either CineNova 300wpc or other such beast

Will that bring the house down?

Good thing I am patient, this is going to be fun, I'll keep you all posted.

wout

How can you see if an AVR has separate pre-outs? I am looking the at the Denon 788 and have this link to their spec sheet:

http://usa.denon.com/AVR-788Lit_830.pdf

Can you tell from this info? Otherwise I'll call them. Thanks!

McLoki

wout wrote: »

How can you see if an AVR has separate pre-outs? I am looking the at the Denon 788 and have this link to their spec sheet:

http://usa.denon.com/AVR-788Lit_830.pdf

Can you tell from this info? Otherwise I'll call them. Thanks!

Analog pre-out = 1. (should equal 8) Also If you look at the back of the AVR. (there is a picture of the back in the link you sent) there is a section called pre-out (it is right next to the Zone 2 outputs) and the only pre-out is for a subwoofer. You should see 7 channels plus the subwoofer.

I did the same upgrade path as you. (well no projector, still waiting on that one) but I purchased 7's and a C and used my old speakers for the rears. When I got my 15's, the 7's moved to the rear. I am sure the 9's will sound great as rear speakers, but they are really deep for wall mounting. If you plan to wall mount them, I would think about getting a pair of 7's and using the cash saved to get your amp a little sooner...

Looks like you are on a great path - enjoy.

Michael

Dennis Gardner

Thats alot of talk about alot of gear for an hour a day...........

hockeyboy

Wout-

Check out my system. It sounds like the direction you are moving and I can tell you from experience it looks and sounds awesome.

wout

Yeah Dennis, that is why they call it the "darkside" It is all about the fun of putting it together and there will be days that have more time in the HT, and then there are the long skiing days when zero HT hours get logged. Its the process of creation!

I really appreciate all the help and advice I get here as it will make for good decisions in what I consider a confusing field for newbies.

wout

Michael, the 9s are going to be on stands for the tweeters to be on the same height as the front speakers and my ears when I am in the prefered seating position. I heard that this is apparently important in increasing the enjoyment of the audio. Seems to make sense so i'll try it out.

Thanks for all your help.

By the way (sidenote) I am currently reading a really interesting book called "This is your brain on music" by Daniel Levitin. It is about the neuro psychology and the connection between brain and music, its performances, its composition, how we listen to it and why we enjoy it. I would imagine that amongst audiophiles there might be a few nerdy ones who would get a kick out of this book. I sure am.

wout

Hockeyboy,

Always a pleasure to get reassurance regarding a large investment like this. I can't wait to hear my J J Cale collection on this setup, I play his music daily and know it intimately so if what they say is true about rediscovering your music I am going to be in heaven.

cfrizz

Hi Wout.

Sorry but the lowest priced Denon you can get is the AVR 988. This has preouts If you look at the attached link you will see them next to the Ext In inputs on the right side in the middle of the receiver. click for the rear view picture.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3599.asp?ProductName=AVR%2D988%3A+%2A%2A+NEW+%2A%2A+Next+Generation+7%2E1+CH+A%2FV+Multi+Source+Multi+Zone+Home+Theater%2FMultiMedia+Network+Streaming+Ready+Receiver#

One more thing, please put the Cinenova up in the list with the speakers. You are getting LSI's & the Denon will not be able to handle them by itself. Unless you plan on playing them low & sitting with your ears right up on the speakers.

Frank Z

Colorado!?! Holy Crap! That's makes 4 of us!

wout

CFrizz, do you mean that I should get the cinenova to run the LSi9s as part of phase 1? I did read something similar in new thread about AVR selection. Sounds like the entire LSi line is power hungry.

I checked the Denon line some more and the price difference between the 988 and the 3808CI on line is $875 vs $1140. Both have the pre-outs - now that I know how to look for them... Thx.

So I can sleep on that one for a week.

wout

Frank, Shhh keep that Colorado secret quiet.......

wingnut4772

Fava beans and a nice Chianti.

Frank Z

wout wrote: »

Frank, Shhh keep that Colorado secret quiet.......

Okay...shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

No one's here.

Frank Z

BTW, I've got a theater full of LSi's

cfrizz

Major droolage here Frank!!!:D

What do you power them with Frank?

Wout, Yes that is exactly what I mean. The entire LSI line is 4ohm & demand alot of power to run.

My brother has LSI 7's, The 50wpc Rotel amp he ran them with would get so hot you could fry an egg on it. The Parasound 1500a he now runs them with just gets a little warm.

However, he now has a Denon 3803 as a preamp. I told him he should have plenty of volume at -40 since that is where my volume sat when I had the 3802.

I forgot my speakers are 8ohm. His normal volume is -20 give or take & can go close to 0 when watching a movie!

So have the power in place to properly run your speakers. Both for it to sound great & to minimize the risk of damaging them.

Frank Z wrote: »

BTW, I've got a theater full of LSi's

Frank Z

outlaw 7100

hockeyboy

Hi Wout,

I bought all of my LSi's through Z-Tech electronics in Los Angeles. They are an authorized dealer and all came NIB. I have been on this forum a while and tell you I couldn't find a lower price anywhere. Kevin over there is a good guy to deal with. I initially had some anxiety so only bought one speaker. When it came through great I went on to buy my entire line of 15's, C, and Fx's NIB with paperwork. You can communicate with them at thier Ebay store although they cannot sell directly from Ebay as an authorized dealer.

http://stores.ebay.com/Z-Tech-Electronics

I can also tell you that I bought MOST of my components on line as certified mint over at:

http://hifitrader.com/index.php

I pre-pro'd using a Marantz receiver and powered the LSi's using a 7 channel Sunfire amp. I only have 5 speakers so had two channels left over on the 7 channel. I used those two channels to power a pair of passive 20-39 CS Plus SVS subs which gave me big bang for the buck since they were passive.

You might have to find a different power amp and receiver for your budget but no reason you cannot accomplish something remotely similar for the money. Essentially I spent more on the power supply but saved a bit by using passive subs which MORE than get the job done.

wout

Hi Hockeyboy,

Thanks for the great info on where to get the equipment. I am pretty set on the Denon 3808CI for pre-pro. I like their compatibility with the video side of things.

The passive subs would be great idea, but I think I might go with a 7 speaker set up because the way my wires are in the wall and the way the entry doors line up I can't get the side speakers quite at the recommended angle, a tad too much on the side, so that it might be nice to have rears as well. Something to still think about. It means I will probably have to plunk down for the active subs, SVS now has their new 13" cylinders out. That would be nice high end stuff. May be get one at a time.

The screen material just came in and the HC6000 was ordered online for just $2899 this morning. The video side (140") is lined up for just $3200. Good $/sq inch ratio!

I checked on the sunfires, nice amps! I checked out Rotel too and that one seems nice, I still am interested in the CineNova and I also looked at the Outlaws. What I really need to do next is jump in my car (thursday) drive half a day and go to a few stores in Colorado Springs and Denver to hear what these all sound like. I am bringing my CDs.

In any case, the more I read the more money I want to spend. Am I going over the top or off the cliff? I can't tell anymore, time for a break.