HD quality
I've read in a few forums and have seen it first hand, it was also mentioned here in a post about the A2 players. The quality from one of these units whether it be a Blue Ray or HD player hasn't been there.
Bear with me as I try to tell you my ideal.
You watch Leno, American Choppers, PBS style broadcasts from old to new in HD and you get AWED, it is 6x better.
You watch a movie in normal DVD format to a HD format and 6x just aint there unless the new HD DVD is a PBS style disc.
We know as in Leno etc, they use to use a normal camera and now use a digital HD camera.
We also know that the new TV's can display much better as far as clarity and coloration over the old ones.
When you watch a show like Leno and go between the SD channel and the HD channel to me there is subtle differences beyond the 4:3 screen and the 16:9 screen. This to me is because of really only the camera used and my TV being able to display it, so since filmed with the same camera and only the channel style being swapped is the reason behind the better picture.
Now with the DVD, I maybe wrong, but not to far off I think.
There still using film and digitizing it to put it on DVD and calling them HD DVD's???
The reason I say this is just over the last week I bought a A3 unit and it came with 5 disc's. 4 movies and I got one of those Planet Earth ones and yesterday I got Die Hards lastest movies only on a normal DVD. The 4 HD-DVD's didnt awe me, I would say 6x better is NOT CLOSE to being there and last night watching Die Hard, it looked as good as the HD ones and no better than the Oppo I have. Those are all tied, just subtle differences, but the Planet Earth one is 6x AWE better. It's either the HD movies are done differently, camera, digitizing etc, or the movie industry is boning everyone in the backside somehow!!
To me, I just should have kept the Oppo and the Oppos ability to upconvert over a normal player was better, still not a killer difference, but better than the older Oppo upconverting to newer HD player.
Bear with me as I try to tell you my ideal.
You watch Leno, American Choppers, PBS style broadcasts from old to new in HD and you get AWED, it is 6x better.
You watch a movie in normal DVD format to a HD format and 6x just aint there unless the new HD DVD is a PBS style disc.
We know as in Leno etc, they use to use a normal camera and now use a digital HD camera.
We also know that the new TV's can display much better as far as clarity and coloration over the old ones.
When you watch a show like Leno and go between the SD channel and the HD channel to me there is subtle differences beyond the 4:3 screen and the 16:9 screen. This to me is because of really only the camera used and my TV being able to display it, so since filmed with the same camera and only the channel style being swapped is the reason behind the better picture.
Now with the DVD, I maybe wrong, but not to far off I think.
There still using film and digitizing it to put it on DVD and calling them HD DVD's???
The reason I say this is just over the last week I bought a A3 unit and it came with 5 disc's. 4 movies and I got one of those Planet Earth ones and yesterday I got Die Hards lastest movies only on a normal DVD. The 4 HD-DVD's didnt awe me, I would say 6x better is NOT CLOSE to being there and last night watching Die Hard, it looked as good as the HD ones and no better than the Oppo I have. Those are all tied, just subtle differences, but the Planet Earth one is 6x AWE better. It's either the HD movies are done differently, camera, digitizing etc, or the movie industry is boning everyone in the backside somehow!!
To me, I just should have kept the Oppo and the Oppos ability to upconvert over a normal player was better, still not a killer difference, but better than the older Oppo upconverting to newer HD player.
Post edited by johnADA on
Comments
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I could have sworn I posted in electronics so could somebody move this to whereit belongs!!
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you were a little bit ranty in your first part of your post so i had a little bit of a hard time understanding what you meant about the whole tv show, leno, old hd, new hd thing but as far as HDDVDs go yes you are correct. most movies coming out in HD go to a production house and are "uprezzed" which does do a much better job than any home dvd player that upconverts. however, this is not native HD. You should see a huge diffrence between something like planet earth and something like Diehard because planet earth was filmed in HD and not uprezzed. also it depends on which studio is doing the uprezzing. some do it way better than others. SO untill movie producers start using HD film cameras its going to be this way. however there is a company called RED (www.red.com) that is producing film grade HD cameras for film use and i know peter jackson is working on a WW2 style movie with one such camera right now. when those start producing films we will see native HD films on DVD. untill then just look for high rated HDDVD. Seabiscuit is one of the best jobs of uprezzing i have seen. If you pop that in and only see "subtle" diffrences you may want to check some things on your TV because it can be stunning. hope my rant helped your out:)
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This should help you if you need to be AWED by HD-DVD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856119
I own a couple off that reference list on the top....and yes, they are WOW.
Check them out. -
BaggedLancer wrote: »This should help you if you need to be AWED by HD-DVD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856119
I own a couple off that reference list on the top....and yes, they are WOW.
Check them out.
Your missing the point.
We have been told there is nothing better than film, and HD is very close.
So if thats the case, you take the film digitize it , then the end result should be the same.
That AVS link just confirms what I and others have seen.
Just being HD named on a DVD, doesnt make it HD quality.
HD now has then a multiple meaning and not what the consumers are being taught from the TV end etc.
I shouldn't have to pick a movie from AVS forums link to be awed, I should be awed equally since it HD.
I agree with more of what Adam has said. There taking normal DVD, upconvert the signal and put it on another disc and label it HD. Maybe then some are filmed with a HD camera and not normal film, digitized and come out AWE.
But without that list, a normal Joe that bought a HD player, see's what I saw and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Seems like the industry, war or no war is shooting itself in the foot!! -
i think that maybe your idea of HD is a little off. you break it down and its as simple as HIGH DEFINITION=more defined. when you watch a standard dvd that is a resolution of (normally) 720x480. an HDDVD or blueray can store a movie that is up to a 1920x1080 resolution. therefore there is more detail and definition. thats not to say there isnt a HUGE diffrence between taking something and creating a higher resolution than capturing video at a native HD resolution. YES hd footage filmed with HD cameras look better. however i think there is a very big difference between just the styling of film and someone shot in HD like planet earth. the purpose of planet earth is to shoot footage that is as real life as possible. whereas a film is more of a story. personally i would hate it if movies looked like planet earth. thats why film is film and video is video. film=motion blur+slight grain=better experience IMO. am i making any sense? you take ANY movie that is also in HD and watch them side by side and the HD version is much more defined. i'm not claiming its gonna make you drop to your knees and cry because its that amazing. Also on a side note..a HUGE reason of HD resolutions is so you can sit CLOSER to your TV and get a bigger movie experience without seeing the pixel structure. if you have a 32" LCD and watch an SD movie from lets say 4 feet away..its gonna look like CRAP..now you take a 32" 1080p tv and watch a HDDVD from that distance and you wont see the pixel structure...yet you still have a movie theatre experience because of your proximity to the screen.
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Your missing the point.
We have been told there is nothing better than film, and HD is very close.
HD 1080 is NOT very close to the resolution of film. -
AdamRagland wrote: »i think that maybe your idea of HD is a little off. you break it down and its as simple as HIGH DEFINITION=more defined. when you watch a standard dvd that is a resolution of (normally) 720x480. an HDDVD or blueray can store a movie that is up to a 1920x1080 resolution. therefore there is more detail and definition. thats not to say there isnt a HUGE diffrence between taking something and creating a higher resolution than capturing video at a native HD resolution. YES hd footage filmed with HD cameras look better. however i think there is a very big difference between just the styling of film and someone shot in HD like planet earth. the purpose of planet earth is to shoot footage that is as real life as possible. whereas a film is more of a story. personally i would hate it if movies looked like planet earth. thats why film is film and video is video. film=motion blur+slight grain=better experience IMO. am i making any sense? you take ANY movie that is also in HD and watch them side by side and the HD version is much more defined. i'm not claiming its gonna make you drop to your knees and cry because its that amazing. Also on a side note..a HUGE reason of HD resolutions is so you can sit CLOSER to your TV and get a bigger movie experience without seeing the pixel structure. if you have a 32" LCD and watch an SD movie from lets say 4 feet away..its gonna look like CRAP..now you take a 32" 1080p tv and watch a HDDVD from that distance and you wont see the pixel structure...yet you still have a movie theatre experience because of your proximity to the screen.
I agree. I think your perception of HD quality is skewed. You need to understand that you can't just take an old movie and refilm it with an HD camera so they compromise and so they remaster the movie in HD.
No matter what HD-DVD or BR movie you pick up and put in your player will have a Higher Defintion than the Standard DVD. Hence the name High Definition.
Granted some movie are done with HD cameras and HD technology...if you look at that list Planet Earth, Happy Feet, Corpse Bride, and I think even Transformers were done with HD cameras/technology(for the animation films).
In your eyes, if there was only ONE resolution to be "High Definition" it would be 1080p, since that is the highest available right now. This would mean that 720i, 720p, and 1080i do not meet the high definition requirement.
The point is, no matter what HD movie you pick, as long as it looks better than the standard DVD version of it, then it meets the "high" defintion requirement. If you can't see even the slightest bit higher resolution/better picture from an HD DVD, then either something is wrong with your tv or dvd player, a setting is wrong, or you need to have your eyes checked. -
much more clearly put than my explanation
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BaggedLancer wrote: »I agree. I think your perception of HD quality is skewed.
Granted some movie are done with HD cameras and HD technology...if you look at that list Planet Earth, Happy Feet, Corpse Bride, and I think even Transformers were done with HD cameras/technology(for the animation films).
The point is, no matter what HD movie you pick, as long as it looks better than the standard DVD version of it, then it meets the "high" defintion requirement. If you can't see even the slightest bit higher resolution/better picture from an HD DVD, then either something is wrong with your tv or dvd player, a setting is wrong, or you need to have your eyes checked.
Oh, its not that I don't understand what your saying, I do, but this is not what people are lead to believe.
Also I have stated the change is subtle at best, meaning it is noticeable, but it varies highly amongst the disc's offered. Some are so subtle you have to realy look at it, others you notice right off the bat, but isn't that great that most would even notice it.
Remastering old film to digitize it is understandable for most all people, lets make that very clear.
Ok, the industry, sales people, media etc all are making this happen. And how many people use the net etc for definition purposes. CC and BB people tell people what???
You go look at a new TV and high def is the selling point pretty much and what do you see???
High Def cameras, again what do you see??
High def cam corders, also again what do you see???
You see a difference that awes you, looks like your right there or just outside your window. Get the point???
Where have you ever seen, outside where the general public lives anything even coming close to what you guys are defining??? Film look of imperfection, just more filling as and easy explaination of whats happening.
About a year ago I looked at both BR and HDs with what must have been the few films that where close to the Leno look. Thats what I wanted, general public wants, whats being driven at you to buy one of these things. My definition is not skewed, this is what they are selling just like the selling point of buying that new high def TV, but its no what you get. SUBTLE, still grainy looking, lacking quality.
This is more like the HD radio thing.
They say CD quality as being HD.
Then DVD's should sat more like theater quality.
Many die hards think CD quality is not better than old analog and even blind tests show 50-50 that people can't tell which is analog and which is CD, hence the slow movement of people buying HD radios. Why buy one if it doesn't sound different???
Get where this goes????
Why get one???? General public wise! -
Why buy one if it doesn't sound different???
You wouldn't buy one if it doesn't sound different. But even you said you had to look to see that is was barely noticably better.....but it was still better and therefore consumers say "It's better, I want it" It's as simple as that.
Many times in CC and BB they use those "reference" discs as shown on that avs link to awe you, and lure you into buying it....that's part of a salesmans job. Sell you everything in the store.
Just like with anything electronics you buy, you should always read the reviews and try it out for yourself. -
agreed..also i think it depends on the end user. just like audio there will always be the argument of what is "subtle" and what is drastic in the change of sound or video. what you might hear as a subtle diffrence between speaker cables on your system may be drastic to me or vice versa. the same i think applies to video. what you may think is a subtle diffrence i might believe to be huge. for example...i could show my dad a 20inch rca tube tv playing 480i dvd and he wouldnt tell the difference between that and a pioneer elite plasma running planet earth at 1080p..its not that he has bad eyes he just doesnt see it...me on the other hand i can tell very distinct differences between the slightest video source. so for me HDDVD DOES in fact blow normal dvd out of the water. end point is: if you watch HDDVD and arent impressed i guess it wouldnt be wise to invest in it..if you do (like me) then whats the harm?
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BaggedLancer wrote: »You wouldn't buy one if it doesn't sound different. But even you said you had to look to see that is was barely noticably better.....but it was still better and therefore consumers say "It's better, I want it" It's as simple as that.
Many times in CC and BB they use those "reference" discs as shown on that avs link to awe you, and lure you into buying it....that's part of a salesmans job. Sell you everything in the store.
Just like with anything electronics you buy, you should always read the reviews and try it out for yourself.
I didn't want to change from records to CD's, to me it wasn't a improvement
I won't buy a HD radio, no need, its not that much if at all different in quality.
Reviews and trying it out, just wasn't there, really still isn't and what I would suspect from a forum like, a cover your **** excuse. The sales people aren't being smart as you suggest, they are the same as I. What I saw and millions of others was a DVD movie right off the shelf that was heads above a normal disc. No promotional crap, so that as a EXCUSE doesn't hold water. Once you get the unit, buy the rest of the disc's which aren't popular as much is when it hits you. First gen disc's they went to special lengths to make sure quality was there and maybe just the box office smashes are also done this way which is a small overall percentage of movies, then the rest suck???
When I say I, it also encompasses the 97%+ of the general public that lives in the real world.
So this looks to be a niche market, so now instead of just AUDIOPHILES we will have a new bred of VIDEOPHILE.
