RTi12 - How much is too much power?

beemer_boy_2002
beemer_boy_2002 Posts: 3
edited November 2007 in Speakers
I’ve never posted anything on here before but I have been reading posts for about a week now and learning a great deal.
I have a set of Polk RTi12’s and realize that my receiver (Sony STRDA5000ES) is not powerful enough to drive them. They are quite power hungry from everything I’ve read. So been doing a lot of research and have narrowed my selection down to two pro amps. The QSC RMX 1850HD or the RMX 2450.
The speakers are rated at 500 wpc; and the amps are 360 wpc and 500 wpc respectively.
Does it make sense to go with the RMX 2450 just because the speakers are rated for it and if I ever wanted the power it would be there, or is this complete over kill?
I’m open to all suggestions.

The other two amps I thought about using are the Crown XLS 602D (380wpc) and the XLS 802D (500 wpc).
The only reason I choose the QSC amp over the Crown is the warranty.

I have also posted this question at AVS forum to see what non-Polk users would say.

Mike
Post edited by beemer_boy_2002 on

Comments

  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited November 2007
    you can go with pro amps, but it's not the best thing... pro amps were not made for home theater applications. there is a reason home amps aren't used for pro applications.. it can be done, but not advisable for critical listening. This is not just a Polk Audio speaker thing either.. most all home stereo guru's will say the same thing.

    get yourself a good 100+ watt home theater amp and it'll sound really good. Look at amps from Parasound, Marantz, NAD, Adcom, Sunfire, Outlaw Audio to name just a few.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited November 2007
    you'll also run into a hook up problem with a pro amp. there aren't any RCA connector inputs on the rear of it. look at the pic below.

    You'll run into a compatibility problem... and it's not worth the headaches.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,205
    edited November 2007
    Welcome to Club Polk beemer_boy! There are some Outlaw monoblocs for sale on Audiogon right now (he/she/it has five, you could get two):

    http://www.outlawaudio.com/support/discontinued/200_specs.html
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1199725108

    I think some CP members have said they prefer these for HT rather than music, but I'm not sure about that. YMMV.
    Alea jacta est!
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited November 2007
    I saw your question over on AVS. One thing to keep in mind is that there's 2 schools of thought about using pro amps. Almost everyone here will steer you away from pro gear, while over at AVS there are many who swear by it. Also, there are many that claim all amps are the same, sound the same, the world is flat, etc.

    What you will find on Club Polk are folks very experienced with Polk and specific advice about your speakers and gear choices that will work well.

    You don't need 360 or 500w @ 8ohms to drive the RTis...a couple of hundred will get them going ;).

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • beemer_boy_2002
    beemer_boy_2002 Posts: 3
    edited November 2007
    Danger Boy, Kex and Ron,
    Thanks for your response. I'm very handy with a soldering iron, so I'm not too concerned about the unique input jacks on the pro amps. And if all I need is a couple hundred watts, then that will save me some money in the end.

    Is there anyone out there that has used both pro amps and HT amps that can give me some insight as to the performance of both?

    Mike
  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited November 2007
    Check out these bad boys. I just ordered the Magnum 1000S, www.d-sonic.net, I imagine 525 watts to my 12s should be way more than enough. As Ron said you dont need 300-500 watts but I can tell you thats it nice to have though. And if its outlaws you seek check out Audiogon for the Outlaw M200s, a guy is selling them used, 160 bucks per. No affil, but a good price if you ask me.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
  • dipiazza
    dipiazza Posts: 363
    edited November 2007
    For the price of those QSC amps i think you would be much better off with those outlaws that were mentioned. Definitly give the Outlaws a look.
    Terps Swimming!
    HT Setup
    TV: Vizio VX32L
    Reciever: Pioneer VSX-D914
    HD-DVD Player: Toshiba HD-A2
    Fronts: Polk R50s
    Surounds: Polk R30s
    Center: Polk R20's
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39PCi

    2CH Setup
    Integrated: Onix SP3 Tube
    CD Player: Sony CDP-CX355
    Speakers: Onix Strata Mini in PR Finish
    Signal Cable: Classic Speaker, Analog 1 IC

    Headphones
    Grado SR 60, Bang & Olufsen A8, Shure e3

    Other Stuff in Use
    Onix xls, Dual Onix x-subs, Onix Ref .5, Dahlquist M903, Teac A-1D, Marantz 1060
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited November 2007
    I’m running the Outlaws on my Rti12's and they can already hammer out the sound. As you already probably know, you need a big room to start throwing a lot more power out at these and jacking up the volume. I was in a mood to throw more power out at them also but now I really don’t see any reason, I want to keep my hearing. Get a good 200 Watts in them from a quality bang for the buck amp like Outlaw or NAD and you should be doing fine.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited November 2007
    The QSC guy, Bob Lee, recommends the PLX line of amps for home use, lowest noise floor, quiet fans...just their best amps for this application. The RMXs get most of their recs for subs. Hookups require a 1/4" to RCA adaptor or XLR to RCA IC...no big deal.

    Had I a large dedicated theater with a rack closet, I think it's a fine solution. For a combo rig like mine, I opted for multiple home audio amps, dead silent, plenty of power and very revealing at prices far below the new QSC pricing.

    Whatever you do, let us know how it sounds...if possible do a comparison...then you'll know.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,236
    edited November 2007
    Just to throw it out there, a Carver M-500t will do those puppies justice for two channel listening. If you aren't interested in vintage gear, just make sure that you have clean power. That is key.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • thejck
    thejck Posts: 849
    edited November 2007
    i just got a parasound hca-3500 for my rti12's.. Parasound makes real good amps and you can get good prices on them used. Look at the hca-1500a as well
  • SKsolutions
    SKsolutions Posts: 1,820
    edited November 2007
    General statement about pro amps.

    Voltage before current to achieve power (watts)

    General statement about good home audio amps

    Current before voltage to achieve power (watts)

    The difference is quite audible.
    -Ignorance is strength -
  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    edited November 2007
    thejck wrote: »
    i just got a parasound hca-3500 for my rti12's.. Parasound makes real good amps and you can get good prices on them used. Look at the hca-1500a as well

    I'd love to have HCA 3500 to power our 12's...I have bi-amped ours with a Parasound HCA 1500A on the low end and a HCA 1000A on the upper end...and they do sound very good with Parasound gear behind them.
  • Atomic Turtle
    Atomic Turtle Posts: 39
    edited November 2007
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Just to throw it out there, a Carver M-500t will do those puppies justice for two channel listening. If you aren't interested in vintage gear, just make sure that you have clean power. That is key.

    Word. I'm still very new in the world of audio, but I'm running my RTi-12s with the M-500T's fraternal twin, the M500, and power is most definitely not an issue. 250 watts per channel drives them as hard as I need to them to go. Listening to the pas de deux from "The Nutcracker" right now, and even with the volume turned just an 8th of the way up, I feel like the strings are vibrating right inside my chest.

    True, I'm probably going to add another Carver down the road and bi-amp them, but that extra amp is going to be a luxury, not a necessity. You can get an M500 for about $250, and the M500-T for $400 or less, and I don't think you'll regret it.
  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited November 2007
    +1 on the Parasound gear..

    I also have the HCA-3500..

    If you can find one, get it and don`t look back !
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)


    :cool:
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited November 2007
    I'd love 2 of them Parasound - JC-1 400-Watt Mono Amplifier's to run my Rti-12's but I just doent have an extra $7K sitting around :)

    Also seems to me that at that price point I wouldnt be running rti-12's any more though.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
  • thejck
    thejck Posts: 849
    edited November 2007
    the parasound does get hot after its been on 3-4 hours. i guess its normal. i have mine sitting on top of the table so it is open.. but it sounds real good so far. I have to still try some extensive listening sessions with some good sources.

    i got a good deal on it on craigslist. my hca-1500 powers the rti10s now
  • beemer_boy_2002
    beemer_boy_2002 Posts: 3
    edited November 2007
    Ron,
    I found a great place that will let me rent both QCS and Crown amps for a trial. I will let you know what I think.
    I think I'll rent the PLX 2502 and XTi2000. They seem to be a close comparison as far as specs go.

    Mike
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited November 2007
    Parasound, and they also left out Adcom;) Best bang for your buck.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited November 2007
    Ron,
    I found a great place that will let me rent both QCS and Crown amps for a trial. I will let you know what I think.
    I think I'll rent the PLX 2502 and XTi2000. They seem to be a close comparison as far as specs go.

    Mike
    I have no doubt that either amp will wake up the RTis. If you get a chance try one of the other home audio suggestions too. Then you'll know...as I said, there's a bunch of adoptees with experience with both pro and home gear on the AVS forum...opinions vary.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE