Steam Powered Record Cleaning

jimbo1421

hearingimpared wrote: »

WOW, they really went up in price since I bought mine. FYI I bought mine as a refurb which was a mistake because it did spit. Good luck finding one for under $50. I looked around a bit and couldn't find any. I keep looking for you, maybe the two of us searching will find one.:)

I found the cheapies, I just don't trust the Amazon reviewers' positive reviews. I think they are salted.

Jim

hearingimpared

Keiko wrote: »

Little more, but check this Wagner out. I stumbled across this awhile back and got it on my wish list. Might be overkill just for vinyl, but I'm thinking of other uses too.

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-500-Watt-Demand-Steamer-Cleaner/dp/B000I618NY

That thing looks like it could blow a whole right through an LP!:eek:

jm1

Some time ago before trialing steam powered cleaning, I had come across another method of cleaning LPs. My intentions had always been to revisit this method to determine its effectiveness. I had not anticipated such a long wait, but now have trialed cleaning LPs by immersion in an ultrasonic bath.

While steam provided an adequate method of helping to dislodge contaminants from the LP surface, ultrasonic cleaning provides better results with only distilled water as the solvent. A vacuum based RCM was used to remove the solvent immediately followed by a rinse using ultra pure water and another RCM vacuum.

LPs plays quieter than pre-ultrasonic cleaning. There was also a slight reduction in the noise from contaminants previously embedded into the grove walls.

The next phase will be to augment the solvent to induce better results. Further trials will be conducted using an immersed brush to see if additional contaminants can be dislodged from the grove walls.

My steamer will now be retired from active use as it has served its purpose.

madmax

I like all the drama and excitement of using steam!

treitz3

What are you using as the US cleaner?

treitz3

Hey, I did run across this when researching on ultrasonic LP cleaning. I do not know if it is fact or not so take it with a grain of salt but I thought I'd throw it out there for the sake of discussion.

"Be very careful, the ultrasonic cleaning process is very harsh. It works by creating tiny bubbles (cavitation) which scrub any loose particles away.

The problem is that as the bubbles collapse, they deposit a lot of energy in a small area, and damage the surface. I know people who used it to prepare the surface of optics for vacuum coating. The surfaces looked very clean, both with the naked eye and under a microscope, but the films grew very poorly with many defects. Examining the surface with an electron microscope showed that the ultrasonic cleaning had produced lots of tiny damage zones, which were smaller than a wavelength of light, and so invisible in a conventional microscope, and these defects spoilt the subsequent deposition of films.

This is not directly relevant to cleaning vinyl, but is a warning that it is a harsh process that can easily damage many materials.

Experiment on easily replaceable records before risking any favorites."

Polkersince85

^^ I'm pretty sure a carbon fiber brush does less damage.:rolleyes:

madmax

Its fun to try different things but my process became stable when I found the VPI which is "good enough" for my needs. Still like spraying the steam sometimes though.
madmax

treitz3

The steam and the dual sided NG are both a damn fine combo but I must admit, I'm optimistically [and cautiously] curious about the ultrasonic aspect.

jm1

treitz3 wrote: »

Hey, I did run across this when researching on ultrasonic LP cleaning. I do not know if it is fact or not so take it with a grain of salt but I thought I'd throw it out there for the sake of discussion.

"Be very careful, the ultrasonic cleaning process is very harsh. It works by creating tiny bubbles (cavitation) which scrub any loose particles away.

The problem is that as the bubbles collapse, they deposit a lot of energy in a small area, and damage the surface. I know people who used it to prepare the surface of optics for vacuum coating. The surfaces looked very clean, both with the naked eye and under a microscope, but the films grew very poorly with many defects. Examining the surface with an electron microscope showed that the ultrasonic cleaning had produced lots of tiny damage zones, which were smaller than a wavelength of light, and so invisible in a conventional microscope, and these defects spoilt the subsequent deposition of films.

This is not directly relevant to cleaning vinyl, but is a warning that it is a harsh process that can easily damage many materials.

Experiment on easily replaceable records before risking any favorites."

I saw this when I was researching. I wonder which applies more (destructive) energy to the LP grove: dragging a diamond stylus @ 1.8g or cavitation?

Anyways, I finally tested more LPs. Cleaning with just water as the solvent provides great results. Adding about 1oz of detergent (The Disc Doctor's Miracle Record Cleaner) was even better. A used LP (may have never been played?) had zero tick/pops with barely audible surface noise on the side I listened to.

With the initial results I am achieving, I will not willingly revert to cleaning with steam/brushes again. This is a waste of time compared to ultrasonic cleaning.

I have a 6.5 liter, 3 transducer unit with a 300mm wide opening. This just fits an LP suspended across the top. Perfect.

Next phase is to automate rotating the LP @ 1 RPM then finally open all the Led Zep reissues.

Regards.

treitz3

jm1 wrote: »

I have a 6.5 liter, 3 transducer unit with a 300mm wide opening. This just fits an LP suspended across the top. Perfect.

Hello and thanks for responding. I am very interested in trying this out but I am having the damnedest time trying to find something that doesn't cost into the thousands of dollars. Would you be so kind as to show me what or where you got your unit, please?

jm1

Keiko wrote: »

I like to use the Steam Shark on used records. New, unnecessary. I use the MoFi and VPI cleaning solutions and rinse with purified water/vac as my last step. Works great for me.

Previously, I steamed and used MoFi enzyme solution followed with an ultra pure water rinse.

The ultrasonic cleaning produces better results with less effort. Next batch of solvent for the ultrasonic bath will get a shot of the MoFi solution as the detergent.

jm1

treitz3 wrote: »

Hello and thanks for responding. I am very interested in trying this out but I am having the damnedest time trying to find something that doesn't cost into the thousands of dollars. Would you be so kind as to show me what or where you got your unit, please?

Not sure what you are looking at, but something like this would work.

SHARPERTEK

A 6 liter unit should cost between $300 - $500 depending on who you purchase it from and digital/analog time/temp controls.

As I am "experimenting", I found a unit with an analog timer/temp controls for $250 on Amazon.

treitz3

Thanks. Yeah, apparently I was looking in the wrong places. Could you clarify a bit? The one you linked has a built in heater, didn't see anything about a timer but that's not a big deal....I guess my question is.....do you need/are you using a separate heater/timing device or no?

treitz3

Never mind, I see that it does include a timer and a heater. Thanks.

jm1

Keiko wrote: »

Hmmm, definitely a cheaper alternative to the pricier RCMs, but I'm already invested in an HW17. It's an awesome machine and pretty much does all the work.

hearingimpared turned me onto this enzyme cleaner and it produces good results. A bottle of concentrate makes a gallon of extra strength, or you can mix it to 4 gallons of regular strength.

http://www.smartdevicesinc.com/buggtussel.html

Have a bottle of that stuff as well.

Let me clarify; my HW-16.5 is still a vital part of the process as it removes the ultrasonic bath solution and the water rinse. I will NOT be omitting/removing this step from the cleaning process at any time in the future. The two cleaning machines complement each other. One does not replace the other.

treitz3

So, about 11 years have flown by and some good friends of mine have been talking about current LP cleaning methods offline/in a PM thread.

What is your current LP cleaning method and are there folks who have moved on from steam cleaning to ultrasonic? (or use a combination thereof)

Tom

motorstereo

Wow holy 11 year old necro thread......... and on a Saturday afternoon no less.
To answer the question just a simple Record Doctor V here. I guess my records aren't that dirty as it gets them plenty clean enough.

treitz3

Some conversations are just too valuable to just let slip away into the vast Polk Audio forum abyss. There is a plethora of information within this conversation that perhaps some people missed the first time around or maybe there are some newer forum members that haven't seen it before and find it interesting.

Plus, this is a topic that won't be going out of style anytime soon, seeing as how vinyl was dying when the thread was first made and now vinyl is seeing a resurgence no one really expected. Well, that and I have been listening to more vinyl lately and I wanted to revisit this topic. So, instead of starting a new thread? I decided to continue on with this discussion.

Just as I did with the Chet Atkins thread....and that one was a 12 year old thread. There is no sane reason why an old thread can't be brought back to life, so long as the topic remains the same and it isn't just bumped because of a spammer.

Tom