Sony ES CD/SACD players ?

VSchneider
VSchneider Posts: 443
edited November 2007 in 2 Channel Audio
Has anyone had any experience with older Sony ES CD changers?

I am looking at one particular 4-5 year old Sony CDP-M555ES (400 disk), but cannot listen to it. How would sound, reliability, etc compare to something current, like Sony's own SCD-C2000ES?

Any M333ES / M555ES or similar owners here?

Thanks,
Val
Post edited by VSchneider on
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Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited November 2007
    Mega changers, by nature, are not going to give you the best sound.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • MKZ
    MKZ Posts: 1,068
    edited November 2007
    I have C2000ES as Shack recommended and happy with it. Here is the review:
    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=39502
    Ask Shack about the Sony DVP-NS775V.
    modded at sacdmods.com
    Here is the link about that.
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58140
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  • VSchneider
    VSchneider Posts: 443
    edited November 2007
    Thanks for all responses. I am well aware of all multi-disk / mega-disk player limitations, but I need convenience for when I am not into critical listening or just entertaining guests with background music (and also my better half does not understand why I need to keep running to change disks every hour -hour and a half :D)

    I also have a DENON universal, and the changer will be a second one.

    I actually read those threads, MKZ, and thanks for the links again, I may actually end up buying that $60 thing... just because...

    So any opinions on the M555ES (or similar M333ES) jukebox ?

    p.s. did I mention the 5yr-old M555ES can be mine for about $100 or a bit more?
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,766
    edited November 2007
    My Sony SCD-C333ES was definitely designed with the audiophile in mind. They must have done a pretty good job because Stereophile gave it a Class B recommendation. Yes, I know there recommendations should only be taken with a grain of salt, but I can tell you, it sounds very good, especially with SACD playback.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited November 2007
    I have a friend that runs the 555 with an outboard Audio Alchemy Dac in the Box, stellar combo on the cheap.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • John K.
    John K. Posts: 822
    edited November 2007
    Val, I don't have the 555, but I use similar models and can give them the highest recommendation. Other than the additional mechanical complexity of the changer mechanism, there are no "limitations" involved in a megachanger which anyone needs to be aware of. Once the disc is moved into playing position it's played exactly the same as it would be in a single-disc player, and that's with audibly flawless delivery of the digital content of the discs. The quality of the content on the discs varies widely, of course, but whatever is there is what you get, with audibly flat frequency response and inaudibly low noise and distortion. After quite a few years now of experience with megachangers I'd never seriously consider a single-disc player again.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited November 2007
    After quite a few years now of experience with megachangers I'd never seriously consider a single-disc player again.

    Exactly why you will never be taken seriously. For those who know, the difference in sound quality between a real nice single player and any mega changer is like driving a Bugatti Veyron vs a Yugo and K., you are driving the Yugo.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2007
    I've got a (modded) SCD-555ES and absolutely love it. I've also heard the stock one and it's pretty awesome as well.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited November 2007
    I just picked up a Sony ES CDP-8ESD carousel player for $20 in near mint condition. I've had it a few days now. and while it's older (c. 1989) I was impressed with the detail in the highs, but as I read online about some Sony ES CD players is that they can sound "clinical" and without any depth to them. I have to agree with that statement, as far as this one goes.

    There isn't any warmth to it at all. It sounds good, but it lacks character if you will. It's got a very by the book harsh sound to the music coming from it.

    My NAD 5340 and tube DAC while not as detailed, does sound more realistic and not clinical to me.

    I would like to hear a more current Sony ES CDP to compare it to.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited November 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    Exactly why you will never be taken seriously. For those who know, the difference in sound quality between a real nice single player and any mega changer is like driving a Bugatti Veyron vs a Yugo and K., you are driving the Yugo.

    All things equal (pricepoint) it isn't Jesse. Same laser, same transport, same clock, crystal and D/A probably. Now the more moving parts of a changer (especially a mega changer) surely reduce the reliability a bit, but playback shouldn't be any different - unless a manufacturer is intentionally putting 'lesser' components into changers vs single disc.'

    Changers aren't boutique for high end audio. Manual labor is key. Loading each disc, one a time - big heavy drawers or top loaders with pucks. Another reason why vinyl is so popular (other than sound), it's labor intensive - one gets to 'participate' more in the listening session.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
    Get a decent Sony SACD player, then add a budget DAC for the CD layer. I had a SCD-C2000ES matched with my Theta DAC and loved the combo. If you find good deals on both items, it will be cheaper and more versatile than most stand alone players, and sound as good or better.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • VSchneider
    VSchneider Posts: 443
    edited November 2007
    Great to hear everyones' opinions. I may end up passing the deal... Turns out this changer is the DEEPEST (about 21") on one of the sides and may not fit my stand well. The shelf should be deep enough (about 21.5-22") and the back and sides are open but I am using it as a corner unit, so back side corners are essentially blocked.
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited November 2007
    Everyone who asks me about mega changers always end up getting SB3s. Like a megachanger but smaller, no cds to worry about, and generally cheaper. Lots of manual labor to start and then smooth sailing.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • VSchneider
    VSchneider Posts: 443
    edited November 2007
    What's an SB3?
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
    Prolly squeeze box, digital music server thing.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited November 2007
    Yep a Squeezebox. If you haven't heard of one...I'll be very surprised.

    If you haven't then basically what it does is take music from your PC and stream it to your audio system. You burn all your cds to your computer and then the SB accesses them, working like a megachanger but instead of physical cds it accesses the files from your PC. It can do this by being wired into the network, or wireless if you have a router.

    This allows you to have access to all of your music from one unit like a megachanger, but you don't have to load it and be limited to the cds in the changer. You can have multiple units all accessing the same harddrive, so you don't have to grab cds and move them from changer to changer if you have multiples. They are also not that pricey ($250-$300) and not that large (7w x 4h x 3d)
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • strider
    strider Posts: 2,568
    edited November 2007
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Yes, Changers are for common people. People with non-audiophile ears. Single platter is the way to go. My redbook Sony CDP-XA3ES single platter sounds so good even after 12 years.

    Sal

    You must hate everything that I own. 2B's the other day, changers today, what's next????:rolleyes::D
    TroyD wrote: »
    I've got a (modded) SCD-555ES and absolutely love it. I've also heard the stock one and it's pretty awesome as well.

    BDT

    I've got the same one, without the mods; sounds good to my ears. I'd like to someday get it modded, but it's a bit farther down the upgrade path right now.
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited November 2007
    RuSsMaN wrote: »
    All things equal (pricepoint) it isn't Jesse. Same laser, same transport, same clock, crystal and D/A probably. Now the more moving parts of a changer (especially a mega changer) surely reduce the reliability a bit, but playback shouldn't be any different - unless a manufacturer is intentionally putting 'lesser' components into changers vs single disc.'

    My comments were referring to mega changers, which in fact, do contain 'lesser' components.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • VSchneider
    VSchneider Posts: 443
    edited November 2007
    AndyGwis wrote: »
    Prolly squeeze box, digital music server thing.
    Ahh, "Squeezebox", I am sorry, busy day at work, so I am a bit slow.

    Thanks, Gaara, for details!
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  • Music Joe
    Music Joe Posts: 459
    edited November 2007
    I'm enjoying the PC>hard drive>squeezebox>jitterbox>dac scheme now. However, it was...Sony DVP-CX985v (mega DVD/CD/SACD/MP3) > jitterbox>dac.

    All through this I've owned a Rotel-1072 which hardly sees use. With this gear the room was the far bigger factor in the final outcome vs the smaller differences in the listed sources. A mega with a dac and jitter reducer is a decent source.

    That's with a DVD changer which audiophiles say is very bad.

    What sent me into PC/Server land was just how surprisingly decent a mega-changer can be and a desire to quickly and easily access my music collection. I made 320kbps MP3 playlists on CD-R, loaded up the changer and discovered a new world of music in my collection.

    The sound to these 14karat ears was very good.
    "The Web is a monoblog"
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  • fatchowmein
    fatchowmein Posts: 2,637
    edited November 2007
    AndyGwis wrote: »
    Get a decent Sony SACD player, then add a budget DAC for the CD layer. I had a SCD-C2000ES matched with my Theta DAC and loved the combo. If you find good deals on both items, it will be cheaper and more versatile than most stand alone players, and sound as good or better.

    And it still sounds awesome in my rig, Andy! I still need to get a DAC for it, though.
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  • VSchneider
    VSchneider Posts: 443
    edited November 2007
    Well, however great that M555ES deal may be, I am going to have to pass... It's too deep to fit into where I need it comfortably.

    How about something like a 5-disk C222ES (I see it's also mentioned on the SACDmods)? What would a reasonable price be for a 2-4 yr-old one in good condition? $150, $200?

    I hear C222ES is a little better than the current C2000ES.
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
    Enjoy. . . no affil:

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1200159715
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited November 2007
    I use a mega changer with a nice DAC for convenience just as you mentioned, definetly not for critical listening. The mega changer is an excellent storage device, it catalogues the discs and keeps them safe, I dial a disc up, it spits it out and I put it in a different player. Before I added the DAC the mega changer was very hard to listen to, it was harsh sounding on the top, no deep bass extension, the mids were OK nothing special, especially when compared to some of the other better made single disc players I have. It sounded about the same as the inexpensive bedroom dvd players I own. The circuitry in the mega changer is a compromise to convenience, op amps and all that blah blah blah, if you care too, spend some time studying about audio circuits, if you don't care then just enjoy your time with the music. It is very likely a mega changer that is satisfying could be made, but they are not accepted in high end audio so those companies just do not go there. The Sony ES models I have heard are nice players but never owned their mega changer.

    If your intent is for background party music and watching little ones dance and jump around and have fun then the changer is a decent compromise although you may want to add the DAC.

    RT1
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