HD-DVD True HD through 5.1 Analog

AndyGwis

So, I decide to pop in NIN Beside You in Time HD-DVD. I'd waited to watch it for over a week to make sure I could pump up the volume without bothering neighbors so I felt my lunch break would be the perfect time.

Pop it in. Wait for short load time, select TrueHD and have HK 635 set to 6-channel analog inputs. Put it on Hurt, sit back.

It sounded great, but it didn't fill the room as I had hoped. Put it on Head Like A Hole. Same thing, great sound but not earth shattering.

Decide to put it on normal digital / coaxial. Put on Closer. OMG, it was the most fun experience I think I've ever had listening to music outside of a concert. Bass was hitting hard and fast. I felt it in my gut.

Switch back to TrueHD Analog inputs, back to clear but bland. It totally lacked low end.


I have NEVER gotten my multi-channel analog to sound good. Always drastically lacks bass. Is there something I need to change? I am running my sub 5 db hot according to the XA1's setup (mains are -5, sub is at 0).

Any thoughts? It's not just TrueHD, anything in multi-channel lacks bass. HELP.

Ricardo

I had the same problem when comparing HDMI Decoded at the DVD player vs HDMI decoded by the receiver. I think the difference is not in what connection you are using, but who is decoding. Maybe the receiver handles "decoded" bass differently? I don't know.

Face

Maybe it could also be the I/C cables, what are you using?

I have the same HD-DVD and was very impressed by the soundtrack over a optical connection. I don't have a TRU-HD drive or receiver and was considering the upgrade. Maybe it's not worth it after all?

jakelm

Andy. In the 5.1 channel menu on the XA1. Set all to channels to small and sub to "use" crossed over at 80hz. Set distance acording to HK's setting. Just copy from what the HK set the distance at. Leave all channels level @ "0". Your 635 takes care of channel level.

My 5.1 analog sounds alot better than digital.

AndyGwis

I thought the HK wouldn't take care of anything when I used the analog inputs?

In any case, it's not settings. I have my HK calibrated using the EZEQ and think I just like its bass management way better than any source's BM I've tried. Same thing with my PE 59avi, I always preferred to use the HK's BM.

Oh well. TrueHD sounds great, but I don't get sufficient bump. I'll redo the settings again, but I don't think that's the issue. I'm getting little to no bass through multi analogs.

jakelm

AndyGwis wrote: »

I thought the HK wouldn't take care of anything when I used the analog inputs?

In any case, it's not settings. I have my HK calibrated using the EZEQ and think I just like its bass management way better than any source's BM I've tried. Same thing with my PE 59avi, I always preferred to use the HK's BM.

Oh well. TrueHD sounds great, but I don't get sufficient bump. I'll redo the settings again, but I don't think that's the issue. I'm getting little to no bass through multi analogs.

Your HK takes care of channel levels and delays...

Thats the only things I can adjust in 6/8 channel direct..

If your speakers are set to large on the XA1, then little bass will come out. I dont know why, but its true. I had to set everything to small and set sub to "use" xover @80hz. And all levels to zero, with the correct distance. And like I siad, much better.

I only have movies with DD+ and connected through analog 5.1, blows away digital.

millerman 3732

Make sure you run the EZ EQ on the HK , if you haven't already, I don't know why it makes a difference in the analogs/6-8 input but it does, mainly in volume and bass, it really opens it up.

AndyGwis

I'll redo my HK settings on 6/8 channel direct. I didn't think it did anything but pass the signal through to the amp section. Maybe that is where the culprit lies.

jakelm

millerman 3732 wrote: »

Make sure you run the EZ EQ on the HK , if you haven't already, I don't know why it makes a difference in the analogs/6-8 input but it does, mainly in volume and bass, it really opens it up.

It does not Eq 6/8 channel direct.

But EzEq does use level and delay for direct mode....

jakelm

AndyGwis wrote: »

I'll redo my HK settings on 6/8 channel direct. I didn't think it did anything but pass the signal through to the amp section. Maybe that is where the culprit lies.

Easy way to find out.

Go to 6 channel direct on HK. Then bring up OSD. You will find the only thing you can change is speaker level and delay. Speakers are set to large and Eq is flat. Anything you can change while on direct mode is everything your 635 uses and vice versa.

AndyGwis

If I put it on 5 channel, then bring up OSD, should it already have all the settings in place from the last time I ran EZEQ for speaker level and delay?

Also, the XA1 has settings for speaker level, distance and crossover. Wouldn't it be redundant to set them up on both the HK and XA1?

jakelm

AndyGwis wrote: »

If I put it on 5 channel, then bring up OSD, should it already have all the settings in place from the last time I ran EZEQ for speaker level and delay?

Also, the XA1 has settings for speaker level, distance and crossover. Wouldn't it be redundant to set them up on both the HK and XA1?

No because the HK is not using any bass management is direct mode. It is however using level. So level on XA1 should be all zero. But since I dont think the HK uses its distance either, you need to set the correct distance for delay purposes.

Bass management and distance is set by XA1. Everything else is HK. So you need to set distance and BM on XA1 and leave levels on XA1 @ zero .

millerman 3732

Here's how I set mine up

1. Run the EZ EQ on the HK just like the directions say, I usually just use the automatic setting because I very rarely use the digital inputs anymore so it doesn't really matter, and when your doing the front Field setup make sure the distance from the mic to the speaker is the same on all three speakers.

2. Set all the speakers to small in the setup menu of your XA1, set sub to use, and set the crossover, I set mine at 100hz.

3. Use a test disc, Avia is what I use, and make sure your levels are all the same in 6/8 channel direct mode, and you should be good to go.

But if you don't run the EZ EQ first the bass output will really suffer, like I said I don't know why it makes a difference but it does.

AndyGwis

cool. I'll try it out, can't hurt anything. . .

Still, though, I was floored by how good it sounded through coaxial. If TrueHD sounds better once I tweak my settings, I'm going to be astonished.

Great concert dvd, btw, if you like it loud and hard.


Face - I'm using some AQ sidewinders for my 6 channel ICs. I guess I could switch the subwoofer one out and see what happens. I have some Signal Cable ICs lying around.

millerman 3732

Also to get in to the level settings in direct mode you have to turn off the EQ settings in the level set up in the OSD, but to do this you must be in one of the other modes like video 1 or 2 to access it.

jakelm

If you notice, all speakers are large in HK's window, when direct is selected. But you can still adjust channel levels. So that means that the HK is not doing BM but doing levels.

AndyGwis

millerman - when I set up the XA1, I used their test tones. It sounded very even across the soundstage, but the subwoofer didn't have a tone that I could hear. Maybe it's something as simple as a bad IC, but I doubt it.

Will report back, boys. Thanks for the advice.

jakelm

millerman 3732 wrote: »

Also to get in to the level settings in direct mode you have to turn off the EQ settings in the level set up in the OSD, but to do this you must be in one of the other modes like video 1 or 2 to access it.

No...just hit the level button on your remote...it will cycle through the speaker channels used...

millerman 3732

If the 635 had HDMI inputs and didn't reset it self every time the power blinks off, I live in a very rural area so this happens alot, I don't think I 'd ever get rid of it, BUT its days are numbered.

jakelm

millerman 3732 wrote: »

Here's how I set mine up

1. Run the EZ EQ on the HK just like the directions say, I usually just use the automatic setting because I very rarely use the digital inputs anymore so it doesn't really matter, and when your doing the front Field setup make sure the distance from the mic to the speaker is the same on all three speakers.

2. Set all the speakers to small in the setup menu of your XA1, set sub to use, and set the crossover, I set mine at 100hz.

3. Use a test disc, Avia is what I use, and make sure your levels are all the same in 6/8 channel direct mode, and you should be good to go.

But if you don't run the EZ EQ first the bass output will really suffer, like I said I don't know why it makes a difference but it does.

Bass suffers because, EZEq adjust nulls and peaks and levels on sub. Uses those settings even for direct mode.

But does not use any equing for all other channels.

jakelm

millerman 3732 wrote: »

If the 635 had HDMI inputs and didn't reset it self every time the power blinks off, I live in a very rural area so this happens alot, I don't think I 'd every get rid of it, BUT its days are numbered.

Amen brotha...Heaven forbid I should turn the power off, its a stress headache guessing if it will boot right when I turn it on.

So I just leave it on all the time...

millerman 3732

jakelm wrote: »

No...just hit the level button on your remote...it will cycle through the speaker channels used...

Not if you still have the EZ EQ turned on in the level set up in your osd... I think I'll have to check now.

jakelm

millerman 3732 wrote: »

Not if you still have the EZ EQ turned on it your osd set up... I think I'll have to check now.

If EzEq is on in the speakers level menu..I think your right. But there is no reason to leave it on, it doesnt change the level if you turn it off. Its just when its on, you can mess it up by changing it. Its like a lock out. But turning the "lockout" off, doesnt mean its not using those settings. it is..

millerman 3732

AndyGwis wrote: »

millerman - when I set up the XA1, I used their test tones. It sounded very even across the soundstage, but the subwoofer didn't have a tone that I could hear. Maybe it's something as simple as a bad IC, but I doubt it.

Will report back, boys. Thanks for the advice.

Thats why I use a test disc because then you will get a tone from the sub and you can set it accordingly also you have the output on your XA1 set to PCM and not digital right.

jakelm

millerman 3732 wrote: »

Thats why I use a test disc because then you will get a tone from the sub and you can set it accordingly also you have the output on your XA1 set to PCM and not digital right.

PCM/Bitstream settings are just for HDMI and digital connection (coax or optical).

When using 5.1 analog, it doesnt matter what the output is, the 5.1 analog is strickly PCM.

I can switch from 5.1 analog (PCM) to DD digital/coax (bitstream) without changing any setting on the XA1.

millerman 3732

jakelm wrote: »

PCM/Bitstream settings are just for HDMI and digital connection (coax or optical).

When using 5.1 analog, it doesnt matter what the output is, the 5.1 analog is strickly PCM.

I can switch from 5.1 analog (PCM) to DD digital/coax (bitstream) without changing any setting on the XA1.

I always felt like it made a difference, but I guess it could be in my head I'll have to go back and check now, boy you learn something new every day.

kuntasensei

Just a note: Normally, analog direct also bypasses delays, since the analog inputs aren't undergoing any kind of digital conversion (which is also why you can't use bass management on the HK itself or use any EQ'ing). You'll need to copy the speaker distance settings on your 635 to the XA1 to ensure that all channels arrive at the listening position at the same time, just as you'll need to set crossovers on the XA1 to ensure proper bass management. This isn't a problem on newer receivers that send the audio digitally via HDMI, since it can still be delayed/bass managed/EQ'd digitally. A rare few receivers will convert the analog ins to digital so they can apply bass management, etc., but the 635 doesn't. It will, however, keep the channel levels consistent so long as you have the trims on the XA1 all set to 0.

Gaara

I thought there was just a thread on this here, the Toshibas have issues with bass managment over 5.1 out. If I recall correctly from wherever I read it they don't send the bass if speakers are set to small, it just gets truncated. They also don't do the standard 10db+ to LFE that should be required.