surround sound speakers w/ rti10 fronts & csi5 center

magellings

Hi, just bought a pair of rti10s for front sides and will be getting a csi5 for center. I'm debating on what surround speakers to get. I will get a denon receiver w/ 130wattsx7 or 140wattsx7. I'm planning ahead for a 7.1 setup so am thinking the best possible setup would be 2 fxi5s for surround sides and 2 rti6s for surround rears. I have a few questions though.

1) I'm concerned that the rti6s will get damaged w/ a 130-140 watt reciever. The rti10s sounded nicer w/ a 140watt denon than with a 120watt denon when listening to them at purchase time so would like a capable receiver for the rti10s. What's the likelyhood of damage occuring to the rti6s and why or why not?
2) I'm concerned that a different variation of the surround speakers would be better. The majority of my time will be movie watching. Would four fxi5s or four rti6s be a better or worse setup? Polks site does not offer any recommendations for a 7.1 setup which seems strange.

Thanks in advance

Ricardo

Welcom Magellings. You should have no problem wih your rear surrounds, as long as:

1.-You set them as "small" when you set up your receiver.
2.-You calibrate receiver output to them.
If you're getting one of the new Denon's, the Audissey (Sp) auto setup will take care of both of these points.

On the type of speakers for surround and backs, there are different opinions, but I think the most common is to get the FX's for sides and the RTI's for backs.

avphile

I thought the LARGE and SMALL setting is used to determine the amount of base going to the speakers. In other words, if I don't have a subwoofer in my HT system then the LARGE setting will let my main/center/surround carry more base. And if I do have a subwoofer in my HT system then the SMALL setting will let my subwoofer carry the base; the main/center/surrond carry the mids and highs. The way you make it sound is more like controlling the amount of power going to the speakers. If that is the case then how much of the total power is going to the speakers when the you have SMALL? I assume 100% of the power is goint to the speakers with LARGE.

m00npie

avphile wrote: »

I thought the LARGE and SMALL setting is used to determine the amount of base going to the speakers. In other words, if I don't have a subwoofer in my HT system then the LARGE setting will let my main/center/surround carry more base. And if I do have a subwoofer in my HT system then the SMALL setting will let my subwoofer carry the base; the main/center/surrond carry the mids and highs. The way you make it sound is more like controlling the amount of power going to the speakers. If that is the case then how much of the total power is going to the speakers when the you have SMALL? I assume 100% of the power is goint to the speakers with LARGE.

When set as LARGE, you simply disable the crossover which means you get the lower frequencies sent to each speaker set as LARGE. When set as SMALL, you enable the crossover. A Denon will allow you to set the crossover on each speaker in your setup which is what I do.

If you go with a Denon, get at least the 2807 and you will be fine running your current setup with either of the choices listed for your surrounds. I started out with the same speakers up front as you have now and used the Denon 4306 to power them. I had all speakers set as SMALL with the Center & Surrounds crossed at 80 and the towers crossed at 40. My speakers were set as small since I have a sub.

With that setup, the system sounded great and I calibrated the system myself instead of using the Audissey setup. I can say that once I added a separate amp into the mix and used the Denon as a pre, the RTi10’s came alive!

After you get your surrounds, then focus on getting a sub, and then a separate amp and then a starter 2-channel system, and then upgrade all components just because….. You see where this is going

avphile

MOOnpie.

What you are saying is that SMALL and LARGE settings have nothing to do with power. So how do you prevent damage to your surround speakers (i.e. FXi5-125 Watts and RTi6-125Watts) when you are connected to an AV that is rated at 7x140Watts?

m00npie

avphile wrote: »

MOOnpie.

What you are saying is that SMALL and LARGE settings have nothing to do with power. So how do you prevent damage to your surround speakers (i.e. FXi5-125 Watts and RTi6-125Watts) when you are connected to an AV that is rated at 7x140Watts?

Take those AVR power ratings and throw them out the window. You will get the rated watts per channel on separate amp, but not on most AVR's. With your setup and all 5 speakers hooked up, your RTi10's are going to rob most of the power away from all the other speakers when the volume is cranked. You'd be lucky if you were getting 20watts going to the surrounds. What I am saying is this will not be an issue as long as you don't crank the volume to like 0DB on the Denon. My normal listening levels were around -20DB with the 4306 and it performed and sounded great.

magellings

M00npie what is a "starter 2-channel system"

Ricardo

Setting "small" speakers as "large" will give you a higher probability of damaging them because you are sending the full spectrum. In any case, if you calibrate correctly and don't abuse them (like in the volume at 0db), you should have no problem.

jakelm

Large = More Bass = damaging small speakers

Small = Less Bass = okie dokie..

m00npie

magellings wrote: »

M00npie what is a "starter 2-channel system"

It can simply be defined as your first dedicated 2-channel system which is what I am working on now.

McLoki

From reading this thread I have a few assumptions - please correct me if I am wrong...

You have front speakers and a center speakers. You will get FXi5 or RTi6 rear speakers. No sub yet.

If you have a subwoofer - in your AVR, set all speakers to small and sub to on. This will send bass below the crossover to your subwoofer, above the crossover to your subwoofer. Remember the crossover is a slope, not a cliff. Even with a crossover at 80hz, you will still be sending some (but not as much) info above 80hz to the sub and below to the mains.

If you do not have a subwoofer - In your AVR set sub to off, fronts to large, center and rears to small. This will send all information below your crossover (and from the LFE channel) to your front speakers (the largest ones with the best chance of producing decent bass) and everything above the crossover (for your center and rears) will go to the appropriate channel. Your fronts will run full range.

You are WAY BETTER pushing more power to your speakers than not enough. Once you balance your system (set your AVR so test tones of the same volume are at the same volume from all the speakers when heard from your seating position) you will be fine.

Don't worry about to much power. Just remember if something sounds wrong or you turn up the volume control and the sound does not get more clear - just louder - turn it back down.

Many of us run amps with way more power than our speakers are rated at and have never had a problem. (look at my amp and remember my rear speakers are only rated for 150wpc. - center 250 and fronts 350)

Michael

reeltrouble1

You can use either speaker with either Denon you are considering, it will be a nice match and you will not damage anything. Just keep the volume dial on the denon at a level where everything sounds good, somewhere between 11 and 1 o'clock on the dial, this is going to be very loud, so pick the volume you like.

Enjoy your system, the RTi are very fine speakers, I have been running over 200 watts to mine for years, the RTi 6 is an exceptional sounding speaker, I used the Fxi50 for surrounds and they were awesome.

I would recommend using the RTi6 for your back surrounds and the FXi for your side surrounds, its going to be quite a rig for HT when you are done. As I said enjoy your system, its going to be great. The back sourrounds, well Polk recommends having them fairly close together and mounted above the seating area, you just have to work with what you have.

Welcome to Club Polk.

RT1

Willow

Yeah forget the ratings. I'm pushing 200W from my monoblock to me csi3.

magellings

McL0ki ? on your comment:

If you have a subwoofer - in your AVR, set all speakers to small and sub to on. This will send bass below the crossover to your subwoofer, above the crossover to your subwoofer

Did you mean "above the crossover to your subwoofer" as actually to your fronts/rears/center?
What is the definition of a crossover?

Also, accidentally older 45wpc pioneer reciever was set at volume 22 out of 31 this morning and caused "very" loud sound to come out of rti10s at first. Turned it down right away. Normally volume set to 14 is my preferred volume level w/ is pretty lound.
Should I be concerned that any damage occurred to the speakers?...
I now know for sure "too" many watts is okay, but what about too few wpc like this older pioneer AVR?

they were such an expensive purchase that I just want to be sure I didn't do any harm. Please someone give me an answer to give me piece of mind.

reeltrouble1

well, I seriously doubt you did anything to the speakers, with just a short burst so to speak, long term, yes, you will damage the speakers, what happens is the the receiver does not have enough reserve power to meet the demand, so it starts trying to pull more power to keep up with the demand called for at the outputs, it cannot, so everything heats up, the sound wave is "clipped" which can then damage the speaker. The speaker will sound very distorted when the wave is clipped and the AVR may go into protect mode or just shutdown.

Relax, everything is fine, you are going to need the Denon or some such similiar AVR, the advice about getting one with pre-outs for future use is something you should seriously consider. Now watch that volume knob.

RT1

magellings

Thanks reeltrouble! And thanks everyone else. Based on all this, I've decided I'll go w/ the rti6 for rear surrond w/ the fxi5 for side surrounds. Hopefully, the fxi5's get cheaper soon since they also are being closed out. I'll look into getting a denon w/ pre-outs. I assume higher end AVRs will have. I'll let everyone know how it all sounds when it's all working. Thanks again

McLoki

McLoki wrote: »

If you have a subwoofer - in your AVR, set all speakers to small and sub to on. This will send bass below the crossover to your subwoofer, above the crossover to your other speakers. Remember the crossover is a slope, not a cliff. Even with a crossover at 80hz, you will still be sending some (but not as much) info above 80hz to the sub and below to the mains.

Fixed - sorry for the confusion. The crossover is a setting in your AVR. There may be a global crossover for all speakers or you may be able to set a crossover for each set of speakers when you set them to small in your AVR. (depends on the AVR you are using)

Michael

magellings

Hi all, back again.

My brother will soon be purchasing a new Denon AVR model coming out pushing 150x7 wpc. I have purchased my speakers and have rti10 fronts, csi5 center, fxi5 sides, rti6 rears. I'l like to hook up my brother's new Denon to these speakers once he gets it. My brother says it will blow a hole in the fxi/rti6s. Thoughts as whether hooking this denon up is a good idea?

magellings

Anyone have a comment regarding hooking the 150x7wpc denon up to my system? Is 150watts continously sent to the surrounds of 125watt max? Anyone know of any good websites that explain how wpc work?

McLoki

magellings wrote: »

Anyone have a comment regarding hooking the 150x7wpc denon up to my system? Is 150watts continously sent to the surrounds of 125watt max? Anyone know of any good websites that explain how wpc work?

yes - not a problem at all. You blow speakers with not enough power much more often than to much....

magellings

Why does polk only recommend a max 125watts for the fxi5 and rti6 then if it doesn't mean anything?

solidus28

I'm fairly new to this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the max that they will pull from an amp/receiver. If you hook it up to a 200w amp, it's not constantly feeding 200w, only when the speaker needs it. So, if the speaker ever peaked at 125 watts, the amp would have no problem feeding it what it needs. Whereas if you had a 50 watt amp, you probably wouldn't be hearing your speakers to the full potential.

McLoki

Close I think. The power rating is for constant power to the speaker and the voice coils abilty to dissipate heat. If you play things without alot of peaks (lets say heavy metal music where the dynamic range (difference between the loudest and quietest parts of a song) is not that high, you can damage your speakers with to much power (by using a large amp).

If, however, you are listening to a movie where at most you are sending say 5-10watts average and then an explosion happens and requires a 800watt peak - your 125watt speakers will have plenty of time to dissipate the heat from a short burst of power and no damage will result. (unless your amp clips (cannot provide the power asked) and then you will end up frying your tweeter)

Anyway - thats how it works and why Manufacturers state power limits of their speakers. Plus it is a good selling point as many people are impressed by speakers that sound like crap but are rated for 500 watts.... :rolleyes:

Michael