qualitly loss on copied cd?

jayman_1975
jayman_1975 Posts: 672
edited November 2007 in 2 Channel Audio
Hi. This might have been discussed already but i couldn't seem to find it in the search. What are your thoughts on whether or not you will lose quality when copying a cd for backup. I am big on backing up my cd's and find that i prefer to play the backup for fear of ruining the original. I don't think i can tell a difference between the two but i was wondering what others have found.
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Post edited by jayman_1975 on

Comments

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited October 2007
    I have found that any copied CD, whether it be lossless or not, yields a loss of quality. At least that's what my ears tell me.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited October 2007
    I've actually read copied CDs improve sound quality as a copied CD is laser cut, while most typical CDs are pressed.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited October 2007
    I have read that sometimes that is the case. I would love to hear this.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • Roy Munson
    Roy Munson Posts: 886
    edited October 2007
    I used to think that a copied cd using EAC wasn't as good as the original,,close but not quit as good. Then I tried CloneCD. While I still don't think the copies are as good as the originals CloneCD does a better job. I'm not really into copying cd's as a rule but I have always been interested in how copies would turn out so I tried a couple of apps to see or hear for myself. Usually the copies I make wind up in my car where the difference isn't really noticeable. YMMV
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited November 2007
    Original CD is stamped, the copy actually writes the information on the disc.

    RT1
  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited November 2007
    If they are copied correctly you shouldn't hear a difference. By correctly I mean without jitter-pops/clicks etc.

    As others have mentioned see EAC. If it's bit perfect you should be able to run and md5 check to verify this then it should sound the same since every bit is available same as the original. I'm not aware of a place to make MD5 checks for commercially available CDs though.

    Try it out and let us know what you hear.
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  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited November 2007
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    I've actually read copied CDs improve sound quality as a copied CD is laser cut, while most typical CDs are pressed.

    I have heard this as well. When the CD is copied, it actually corrects tracking eroors and other digital anomalies.
    Venom
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited November 2007
    In my experience using EAC properly optimized for your set-up and a quality (non-shareware) burning program yields exact copies that I can not hear a difference between.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited November 2007
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    I've actually read copied CDs improve sound quality as a copied CD is laser cut, while most typical CDs are pressed.

    DK has done a couple very comprehensive write-ups about his experiences.

    I personally think perhaps some can hear a difference but not for the reason's typically given. You need to understand how error correction/tracking works and when you do you will see the improved sound (if there is any) has nothing to do with that.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited November 2007
    I use Nero religiously. When copying CD to CD, I found no loss of quality. I also found using WMP lossless works very well too.
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited November 2007
    My son has noted this effect. And he HAS NO PRECONCEIVED EXPECTATIONS.
    So what went wrong? I had made these using Nero copy for a few of my CDs he wanted to
    listen to. I think it's the software!
    I have heard EAC will do the job, but have only used it for ripping to FLAC.
    The biggest problem is getting the settings right. IT is almost too configurable. I would go do your homework and find out what settings others have found success with. I know I have disks that can't be ripped do to errors via EAC. I just did a Nero copy and then did EAC, since they were
    seldom listened to albums, and I wasn't going to re-buy them. This alone
    tells me that Nero doesn't do much verification. EAC will do the job, but if the disks don't read well, it's all over.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • jayman_1975
    jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    edited November 2007
    good to hear everyones thoughts...you guys lost me at EAC though...call me stupid but what the heck is EAC?? I use Nero.
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • dudeinaroom
    dudeinaroom Posts: 3,609
    edited November 2007
    are you coping the cd's to mp3 files, then burning a cd from the mp3s?
  • m00npie
    m00npie Posts: 697
    edited November 2007
    good to hear everyones thoughts...you guys lost me at EAC though...call me stupid but what the heck is EAC?? I use Nero.

    Exact Audio Copy
  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited November 2007
    EAC is a free program for ripping, burning. It will convert cd's to mp3, FLAC,
    etc. It will also copy cds. It can examine disks in great detail as it reads then, and also compare them to an online database to see if they match for
    that final feel good. It's among the best software, not for the technically
    challenged. Nero just does a garbage in, garbage out copy.
    For us anal retentives, EAC all the way.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • jayman_1975
    jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    edited November 2007
    Thanks for clearing that up. I might have to look into that EAC program. I always thought that if I slowed my burner speed way down to minimum speed it would be as close to an exact copy as could be.

    I am not ripping to mp3s for my serious listening disks. The disks that sound like crap anyhow i will pull various songs from and put a bunch in mp3 format. I find that alot of the disks i have don't sound any better than alot of mp3's anyhow. But like i said. The good recorded cd's i own are burnt as exact copies.
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • hypertone
    hypertone Posts: 150
    edited November 2007
    As long as it's a bit perfect copy, it will sound identical. It's just 1's and 0's, they all sound the same, everytime, everywhere. Slowing the burn speed down will prevent any errors during burning.
  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited November 2007
    Read some of the reports over at CD freaks. Slowing the burn down will make more errors, not less, as high speed burners are optimised to burn at higher speeds.
  • Wardsweb
    Wardsweb Posts: 935
    edited November 2007
    I would think that copying and burning the original iso image would be better than any translation of flac, wav or other language. It would be the same data.
  • hypertone
    hypertone Posts: 150
    edited November 2007
    Wardsweb wrote: »
    I would think that copying and burning the original iso image would be better than any translation of flac, wav or other language. It would be the same data.


    I agree and this is how I've always copied CD's.
  • dudeinaroom
    dudeinaroom Posts: 3,609
    edited November 2007
    wav is the same as what is on the cd, they are both pcm at the same bit rate
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2007
    I have found that burning copies of lesser quality recordings tends to help them sound better. Why, I don't know...
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