Location of drivers

black magic

So i got this a few days ago:




Now for the meantime I think I'm going to use the momo mmc6500 driver for midbass (or not use it at all) until I settle for a decent midbass driver. I was curious if anyone has any opinions on the location of the sr components and momo/midbass driver. I'm going to be modifying the door a little so the speakers will be facing about the same direction as the Qform kicks.

so these are pretty much my options:

- momo driver in door, SR's in kicks and the tweets in the a-pillar.
- momo driver in door, SR's in kicks along with the tweets
- SR's in the door, momo driver in the kicks and tweets in kicks or a-pillar.

I'm pretty confident that first option will prolly be the best based on the setups i've seen, but I thought I'd get some input. I might have to go with the second choice if I have trouble mounting the tweets (i don't actually have a place for them in an a-pillar so i'd have to fabricate something). This probably wont get done for another few months as I really don't have any free time in sight. And it'll be freezing by the time I do.

As always, thanks for any advice.

MacLeod

Those 6500's put out plenty of midbass. If you built a solid enough enclosure for the kicks or could vent them thru the sheet metal they would give you all the midbass you need.

PoweredByDodge

You can try 'mix-n-match' all you like, but I'll tell you two things that I've learned in my few years on this planet:

1- What you can figure out in 6 months of dicking around on the internet, tinkering in your backyard, or even 'solidly researching and testing' is --nothing-- compared to what the speaker design engineers and prototype test personnel can accomplish. In short, you're not going to re-invent the wheel, and if you try to, you may likely end up with a flat.

2- Even if you can match the response of 2 different 'breeds' of driver, in an ad-hoc 3 way set, you'll likely end up requiring tri-amping and an external electronic crossover... at the least you'll end up where I was at, with a 5-way passive crossover (that I had to build myself) and tri-amping.

You're much more well advised to focus your efforts on making the best enclosure / mount possible for the SR midbass drivers, and doing a 'perfect' install for your specific vehicle. If you can accomplish that, I can almost guarantee you that the result will be at least twice as good as the other option.

Toxis

I'm with PBD here. No need for the extra midbass driver. the SR mid should be alllll you need if powered properly.

black magic

Okay, that’s what I needed to hear. Thanks a lot guys. Mixing different drivers = bad. I don’t know why I’m being so stubborn about having a 3-way system. Maybe because most setups I’ve seen are 3-way.

This will hopefully be my last question. So with your guys’ help, I’ve drilled it down to this. Stick with 2-way and provide a decent amount of power to the SR6500. Or I can exchange the SR6500 for the 5250 and high pass em to say 200hz and get the 6500 drivers and have them take care of the 65-200hz range… again, being stubborn about 3-way.

PoweredByDodge

Well... I can understand why 3-way would be more attractive (at least at first glance). It's more speakers, so therefore 'cooler' (seriously), and it provides a more custom look and feel when you show it off. I'm still voting only 2 way though (unless you go and find a factory-built 3-way system... Focal made some if I do recall, and I think Alpine Type X come in 3 ways as well).

Grab a 150 x 2 or 200 x 2 at 4 ohms amp, and slap it on the SR6500 2-way set, sit back, and soak up the bliss.

MacLeod

Personally, Ive never liked 3 way setups. Its just another pair of speakers that can screw things up.

The reasons why people use 3 ways is (A) theyve have their mids strategically placed for best imaging but due to the space constraints had to use a smaller driver which wont have good midbass and (B) in using a dedicated midbass driver you can use a bigger one than you would use for midrange and so you can have more low frequency response in the front of the car without having a sub up there which helps to keep the bass image in the front.

That being said, Id believe its still best to use as few speakers as possible so I try to make 2 way systems work as much as possible.

black magic

Well, I guess the most logical thing for me to do is stick with a 2-way in the time being as suggested. I'm sure I'll still be very happy, and if I find myself still obsessing about having a dedicated midbass driver, then i'll consider changing things up.

I played around with tweeter placement, and I found that with them being in the kicks, it didn't sound quite as good as it did with them being in the location of an a-pillar b/c imo it'd drag the 'stage' down a little. But I'm afraid that after listening for a while, it may begin to feel a little harsh on the ears, so Im leaning a little towards the kick panel location. Anyone have any experience or run into a similar problem?

MacLeod

The A pillars is usually always the best place for the tweeters. Dont worry about listening fatigue with them that high - that can be fixed with tuning and the crossover's tweeter attenuator. Besides, the SR tweeters are very smooth and not harsh at all. I highly recommend the A pillars.

Also try wiring them out of phase with the mids. This will help them blend in better with the mids. I have mine out of phase. Using a SPL meter and playing pink noise filtered to the crossover frequency (currently 5 KHz) there was a good 3 db drop with the tweeters in phase.

black magic

Thanks, mac. I think I'll be taking your advice

Now that i've got everything laid out, its time to get it done. That includes redoing the wiring to accommodate the new amps and redoing the sub box for better fitment. Given the fact that I spend most of my day at work/school, and its starting get chilly outside, this probably won't be completely done for another few months since i only got a few hours a week to do it. At least i have sound, though!

MacLeod

I feel your pain dude. I live in an apartment building so I have to do all my work out in a parking lot. I cant wait to get a house with a garage!

black magic

yeah i hate not being able to do any work on my car. I'm currently living away from home right now for a co-op job so it kinda sucks.

Installer4life

I have what you are looking to do. I have mounted the SR5250's in the kick angled back toward the "B" pillar as a coxial. I have the SR6500 midrange located in the door (Pics coming as soon as I learn how). I was all set to do some listening today or tomorrow but had two issues. One of the crossovers is defective and my truck did not pass Texas emission inspection. ERG valve problem. Crossover is in route to Polk (even though it was brand new) and ERG valve will be replaced tomorrow. I am runing the the setup with the passive crossovers on the 5250's and a Zed Audio Gladius and also a Gladius on the midbass. I had a setup similar to this about 15 years ago and realy liked it. I don't have a console so its all open and I hope to have good results. Should be up and running by the end of next week. I did a similar set up in a 2001 civic where we went from a two way 6500 setup to a 3 way by adding the mid in the kick panel. It sounded better and much better image. The tweeters were mounted at the bass of the "A" pillars. The difference was enough to make me change from a two way to a three way. The Custom kick panels had a lot to do with though. This system was powered byt a JL Audio 3004. I will let you know how it turns out. If you go with a 3 way you can always buy the 5250 mids by themselves.

black magic

well i hope everything goes okay for yah. let us know what you think when its up and running.

Installer4life wrote: »

If you go with a 3 way you can always buy the 5250 mids by themselves.

I thought about that, but then I'd be using the 5250 mids with the 6500 x-overs (b/c it'd be a better idea to use the 6500 driver for midbass). And arent the sr6500's and 5250 x-over settings different? so I probably shouldn't use the 5250 driver with the 6500 xovers, no?

Greg Peters

black magic wrote: »

well i hope everything goes okay for yah. let us know what you think when its up and running.



I thought about that, but then I'd be using the 5250 mids with the 6500 x-overs (b/c it'd be a better idea to use the 6500 driver for midbass). And arent the sr6500's and 5250 x-over settings different? so I probably shouldn't use the 5250 driver with the 6500 xovers, no?

Ideally, if you go 3-way you'd bandpass the mids- a LPF and a HPF applied to filter out the appriopriate frequencies and direct the midrange to the 5.25s and midbass to the 6.5s. IMO, the easiest way to do a proper 3 way setup would be to use an active crossover. I'm with Mac on this one...but appreciate the concept of a 3-way setup using SR components .

Installer4life

I don't know if the crossovers are different but I wouldn't think that they were. The only adjustments are on the tweeter so I would not see where it would make any difference which mid they put with the tweeter. It does take a lot more work on the installation and on tuning but if you have the time I suggest it. The other two 3 way setups I did started out as SR6500's and we ordered the 5.25 inch mid in seperately. If I had not wanted to build the kick panels then I would have just stayed with the
SR6500's. To be honest I probably wasted my time because my hearing isn't what it used to be. But building the kicks was a lot of fun. Anyway you go with the SR's you will be happy.

Greg Peters

Installer4life wrote: »

I don't know if the crossovers are different but I wouldn't think that they were. The only adjustments are on the tweeter so I would not see where it would make any difference which mid they put with the tweeter. It does take a lot more work on the installation and on tuning but if you have the time I suggest it. The other two 3 way setups I did started out as SR6500's and we ordered the 5.25 inch mid in seperately. If I had not wanted to build the kick panels then I would have just stayed with the
SR6500's. To be honest I probably wasted my time because my hearing isn't what it used to be. But building the kicks was a lot of fun. Anyway you go with the SR's you will be happy.

The crossovers for the SR5250 and SR6500 are indeed physically different inside (though seem identical outside). The attenuation settings are different between the two, and printed next to the jumpers.

MacLeod

The frequencies are different as well. The 6500's are crossed at 3100 while the 5250's are at 4000.

Chwnn255

Gentlemen... Absolutely a terrific site! I have been all over it for the past few days and it's one of the best I've been on. Kudos...

Question: Need some product and install advice/help on a 2003 Yukon XL SLT I am replacing ALL "Blows" (love that!) OE with aftermarket toys. Here's the toys I have so far... all are ready to go for install.

1. Kenwood DNX 7100
2. Directed Audio D2205 AMP - 5 channel ESP Hybrid 2200 watts Max
3. Polk Audio MOMO C400.4 AMP - 975 watta MAX
4. Polk Audio SR6500 Front ...AND Rear!
5. PAC SWI-JACK Steering wheel controls (top retain existing wheel functions)
6. 170 deg Rear Backup Lincense Plate camera with IR
7. Sirius SC-C1 - Sirius satellite programmable tuner & antenna
8. Kenwood KCA-SR50 - Kenwood Sirius adaptor
9. Kenwood KCA BT100 - Kenwood Bluetooth adaptor
10. Kenwood KCA iP200 - Kenwood AUX adapter plug/cable
11. Viper XV 160 Remote start
12. GM DD kit for mounting/installtion of aftermarket HU's
13. Metra VT-GMOS-04 GM Class II Data bus Interface - Retains factory chimes, functionality, etc when replacing HU.
14. 50 Sq Ft of Dynamat FatMat Auto sound deadener for doors and..????
15. Sub ... this is still an open item and leads me to my first question...well

...several questions:

1. What the he** do I do for a subwoofer and still retain a factory look and storage space? I've looked at JL Audio's Stealthbox ($699 + install ...ouch!), MTX Audio's Thunderform (MTX isn't up to snuff music-wise...or are they?... with my other equipment so $299 + new sub speaker + install... ouch again!), and SuperCrew's under the rear seat box won't work 'cause I've got Captains seats in the 2nd row. HELP! Would LLooovvvve to figure out how to utilize the driver's side rear storage back panel which means I'm leaning the MTX route ...any suggestions? Would be happy with 8" or 10" sub... however a Polk Audio SR124-DVC 12" would be ideal! (it's Top Mount Depth is 19.30 cm or about 7 9/16")
2. I bought two Amps to see which one would sound the best... the one from Polk will probably win out, but the Directed Audio Amp is a bad boy when it comes to programmability, controls, flexibility... basically geek-factor stuff. What is your opinion(s)?
3. Do I need a 2nd battery and all the relays, capacitors, fuse boxes, etc. if I only run this setup while driving 99% of the time?? Or just an uprgraded alternator or is that even overkill? I'm a Regional Manager and travel 18 states so I spend a huge amount of time in my ride each week.
4. Am I missing anything? I'm trying to go for a first class setup without being stupid with my hard earned cash ...like buying all McIntosh equpiment ($11,000.00 for what I have) and Morel speakers ($2995 for a pair). Or silly looking 'cause I take clients out all the time.

I know this was long, but I am ready to get these toys installed next week and the guys I'm gonna have do it aren't cheap and need EVERYTHING all at once... which makes sense. So anyone's experience/help/advice would be appreciated.

Chwnn255 says... thank you!

Installer4life

Sounds like you are well under your way. The only time I have seen a 12" subwoofer in the factory location was with much modification to the interior wall of the SUV. In other words they cut out the interior metal wall and relocated the fuel entry location. They were able to get a TypeR Alpine woofer in there. That about the same as the Polk SR124DVC. I would recommend a new center console between the middle (or rear) captain seats with the woofer firing down. Although the JL Audio stealth box sounds amazing. If you go with the directed amp you may be able to squeeze it into the factory subwoofer location. I have put 5 channels amps there before. As far as sound goes with the speakers you have you will have very good sound from either amplifier.