Is this reflection?
Face
Posts: 14,340
I love my Tannoy S8's, but they could use a little more bottom end. So for the last couple of months I've been searching for a pair of either Tannoy D700's or S10's(for the right price only).
Yesterday I was putting some things up for sale on one of my boards and remembered I have a Polk PSW10 in my basement. I hooked it up to my mono out on my McIntosh and played with the gain and flipped the phase back and forth a few times. I get it so it sounds great, sit down in my listening chair, and it's gone. Sounds the same as before the sub. I stand up, walk around, and I can hear it again. Walk into the kitchen, I still hear it, walk a few rooms away, I still hear the extra bass. Go back to my listening position, it's gone again!
I have a couple of sound traps beside the S8's to keep them reflecting off the side walls. Do I need some behind the speakers and on the back of the room possibly? I also thought about getting a area rug for the room, to absorb any reflection off the floor. It looks like I may go rug shopping sooner than expected. Or is it just another case of bad sub positioning? It along the right wall about a foot from the corner of the room.
Some specs on the room. 11' wide, 16' long, open to kitchen on right side(counter dividing the rooms), tile floor, and on a slab. Two of the walls are outside walls, and the third is also insulated since it leads to the garage.
TIA,
Mike
Yesterday I was putting some things up for sale on one of my boards and remembered I have a Polk PSW10 in my basement. I hooked it up to my mono out on my McIntosh and played with the gain and flipped the phase back and forth a few times. I get it so it sounds great, sit down in my listening chair, and it's gone. Sounds the same as before the sub. I stand up, walk around, and I can hear it again. Walk into the kitchen, I still hear it, walk a few rooms away, I still hear the extra bass. Go back to my listening position, it's gone again!
I have a couple of sound traps beside the S8's to keep them reflecting off the side walls. Do I need some behind the speakers and on the back of the room possibly? I also thought about getting a area rug for the room, to absorb any reflection off the floor. It looks like I may go rug shopping sooner than expected. Or is it just another case of bad sub positioning? It along the right wall about a foot from the corner of the room.
Some specs on the room. 11' wide, 16' long, open to kitchen on right side(counter dividing the rooms), tile floor, and on a slab. Two of the walls are outside walls, and the third is also insulated since it leads to the garage.
TIA,
Mike
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Post edited by Face on
Comments
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If it matters, my listening position is in the center of the room. And there's also a 56" DLP between my main speakers. I can take pictures tomorrow if it would help."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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I do not have any experience doing this but this is what I have read concerning this issue.
If you can place the sub in the location of your listening possition and then move around your room untill you find a spot that you can hear the desired amount of bass from the sub and them place the sub in that location.
Can't hurt to try.
ScottI like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
Its a type of reflection.........its called a room null. Its from bass waves cancelling out each other in that particular spot.
Scott's suggestion is spot on if a sub is used.HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
Dont know if this will help
My subs do this too
When the phase is set to zero -- if I set it to 180... Im back in business
Just a fwiw- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Time to break out the SPL meter and test tones again I guess. I was hoping for a easy answer since my back is killing me at the moment.
Thanks for the help."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »Dont know if this will help
My subs do this too
When the phase is set to zero -- if I set it to 180... Im back in business
Just a fwiw
Like he said flip that switch, then go sit back down.you can also change the relative phase of you sub by moving it forwards or backwards. I dealy it should be with the front plane of your speakers, or the same distance away from you listening position as your main are. -
Flipping the switch made no difference from my listening position. I moved it back and forth a few inches, even spun it around, no difference at all. As far as it being in a plane with my front speakers, there's not enough room up there, it's a wall of 4 speakers and a large TV.
I set my HT sub up with a SPL meter and test tones. It took a hour or so to get the best placement. It ended up being 3' to the left of me. I placed the Polk 3' to the right of me, I thought it would have had the same effect. When I track down a longer cable, maybe I can place the Polk on top of my home theater sub. It might look kind of ridiculous though.
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
It's called a standing wave. There's plenty of info if you search on that. I get 30db swings at 2 frequencies & apart from some huge bass traps there's no easy to fix it. there are some placements that work better than others- check that out.Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
Backburner:Krell KAV-300i -
Thanks for the help guys. Looks like these will be in my future. http://www.foambymail.com/CornerSolutions.html"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Four of these will be here Thursday. Good thing I'm single, I don't believe the WAF would be too high on these.
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Started with 1 in each corner, I don't know if it helped or hurt. Then took the two that were in the corners behind my speakers and placed them on top of the others and I noticed a difference. I can definitely hear/feel a little more bass. Not a night and day improvement, but it helped. Now I'm thinking about buying another set and going up to the ceiling with them.
Just tested out my HT setup, it helped there too. I'm going to have to turn down the sub.
Definitely worth the $52 shipped."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Not to burst your bubble but Foam By Mail is a scam, all of thier specs are slightly altered Auralex specs, they do very little to help a room. Even the Auralex LENRDs (what these copy) aren't that useful below 125hz.
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Let me know when you want to come over and we'll do a A/B test. It's definitely not a night and day difference, but they did help. "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Unfortunately those are nowhere near big enough to kill the frequencies of the standing wave's you've got- they're probably in the 60-80hz range for you room dimensions. However, they will help tighten things up above about 125hz.Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
Backburner:Krell KAV-300i -
When I have time over the next few days I'll load up room EQ wizard and do some testing."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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you should do the crawl around thing as you said if you move the listening postition you can get plenty of bass, you can also add another sub which greatly reduces the risk of the standing waves.
RT1 -
I believe I may have fixed the problem today.
Please ignore the paint samples in the corner. "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I see a room like that and just can't stop from getting a big grin. Obviously WAF not an issue as you indicated. Nice man cave. Everything in close reach too. Where's the keg fridge?:D
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Wow! I love all the cool toys in that room
I know I'm bringing up an old thread, but I thought I'd inject some of my experience relevant to your bass issue. Sitting in the middle of a rectangular/square room is likely to be the *worst* place for bass nulls/peaks. A year back I did some measurements on my Legacy III's and there was a huge (12db+) peak in the 110Hz region. Turns out this was tied to the seating/measurement position being near the middle of the room. Move a just few feet back (25' long room), and the peak was effectively gone. No matter how many acoustic treatments I piled in (and believe me I did, with GIK tri-traps and LENRDs), that peak was still large and in charge, and its effect was very audible. Moving the seating was the only thing that worked. Of course there were other minor aberrations in the bass I could never fully get rid of; maybe partially the speakers and partially just the nature of a rectangular room. I suppose it's possible that your room dimensions give you a null in the middle, rather than a peak. Positioning is key! With all the stuff in that room, you might also experiment with different arrangements for diffusion, which could be *very* effective, and free!Tannoy Dimension TD10, SOTA Star Sapphire, Heathkit W4A's, McIntosh MC2100, Eddie-Current Zana Deux, Singlepower SDS, Sennheiser HD650, Audio-Technica L3000, Sony Qualia 010 -
I've been moving stuff around lately. It's going to look much different in the next week or so. I've also been looking for a pair of cylinder bass traps on the cheap. I'll update in the next couple of weeks."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
