Recommendation SUB

fish976
fish976 Posts: 30
edited October 2007 in Subwoofer Hookup & Bass Management
I am looking a recommendation for a Subwoofer. I was looking at SVS PB12-Plus 2 and Velodyne SPL1500R. My room is 25x18 with 7' ceilings in a basement. I would like to stay within range of 1k to 1.2k. I listen to music around 90% and HT around 10%.
I would appreciate any other recommendations. Currently I have a PSW450 and I was looking to upgrade.
Theatre System 5.1
Receiver Denon AVR 3805 Pre/Pro
Adcom 5503 amp (front L/R & centre)
polkaudio Lsi15 (Ebony)
polkaudio LsiC Centre
polkaudio RM6600 Surround
polkaudio PSW1000 Sub (Ebony)
Denon 2910 DVD Player
Post edited by fish976 on
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited October 2007
    Those are certainly different animals. The Velo should win out for music...won't dig as deep or loud, but it's pretty deft. You might want to give Chad at Epik Subwoofers a call. He's got 3 or 4 models in your budget. He claims his Tower will exceed my Ultra13 in SPL and SQ and it's right there @ $1200. You'd best call him, not email, he's busy building. Nice guy to talk to.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited October 2007
    The plus 2 is a beast. For your type of application I would consider the Ultra that Ron has, it has received excellent reviews for both music and HT. I have dual Plus 2s dialed in using the SMS-1, so I get good bass for both music and movies. Consider the plus 2 as well, you just may have to adjust settings between apps.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited October 2007
    Right now I would at least investigate Epik as well. It sounds like they are making some incredible sounding subs for prices that compete with DIY.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited October 2007
    Wow! Just previewed the Epik website. I really like what Chad has to offer. Outstanding build quality!! His blog shows incredible pics of the bracing. (Sid -- you would love it.) I wish other manufacturers would be bold enough to show pics like that. I like to see what I'm buying.

    My former DIY sub used one of Chad's drivers, so I don't doubt the quality, although I'd probably have Chad build a passive sub for me because the BASH amps are average performers, IMO.

    If I'm ever in the market for another sub, Epik would be my first choice.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    I gotta admit guys

    SVS becomes less and less of an option as other companies spring up...

    VMPS for music, and Epik for movies -- I may be there, prices are EXTREMELY reasonable... and the build quality is far superior...

    Ponder, ponder

    Dang this Outlaw, giving me way to many options! ;)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    Wow, just saw actual pics of the bracing...

    That puts SVS to shame in the form of build quality -- ten times..

    SVS uses a big piece of wood in the middle...

    These things are stout....

    valor-bracing.jpg
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited October 2007
    Check out the interior of the conquest...

    conquest-bracing-2.jpg
    conquest-bracing-1.jpg

    also 1000 watt amp, 18" high excursion driver and about double the output of the new SVS ultra pb13 for about $1,600. :eek::eek:
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    Yep..

    I think SVS may need to step up their game and stop trying to look so pretty ;)

    A Epik Tower would be a nice compliment to my VMPS subs... (in the future)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited October 2007
    I'm a big fan of the U13. I'd put it up against the VPMS and the Fathom for music. I've talked to Chad and he's confident that not only the Tower and Conquest are world beaters, but the Caliber and Knight are right there.

    I don't regret my decision. I'm very happy, but the Epiks really look interesting and I'm sure are excellent performers.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    Would be interesting

    I wouldnt use VMPS as a dedicated HT sub - but they sure are good for music..

    Sealed, Ported, Push Pull -- all at the same time, weird sub - for sure
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited October 2007
    Ron Temple wrote: »
    I'm a big fan of the U13. I'd put it up against the VPMS and the Fathom for music.

    Now wait a minute, Ron. There's no way in hell the SVS will hang with the VMPS for music. Sure, for HT the U13 is probably great, but for music, forget it. Ain't gonna happen. Hell, I'll put my baby VMPS sub up against the U13 for music and it'll kick that ****.



    Just talkin' smack...:p:D:p
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    The U13 would have an incredibly hard time hanging with a VMPS with music just by design...

    VMPS is sealed, push pull... drivers move around 10 MM one way vs multiple inches...

    I don't see them hanging in there in tone, accuracy at all... I know the old Ultra wasnt even close...

    They are great subs - but they cant do it all unfortunately

    I'd won the PB 13 Ultra -- but for strictly HT only purposes...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited October 2007
    You guys just don't know the power of the new U13. It's a ported design with perks, that mimics the sealed qualities of the high end subs, with the strengths of the big box DIY boys down low. Take a look at the AVtalk numbers (can't find the link...hah)

    You VMPS fan boys always have to jump on everyone's threads pushing your communist propaganda...always trying to step on SVS's glory.......waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...it's so unfair...guerilla marketing at it's worst :p:eek::confused::D

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited October 2007
    Submersive for HT.

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    Just curious --

    How can a ported design mimic sealed characteristics??
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited October 2007
    Good question.

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    I dunno guys!

    After hearing those Polk inwall subs at Polkfest

    I think Polk may be stepping up the game in HT subs -- not so sure about music, but for HT - possibly! ;)

    But yeah, I'll need actual proof at how SVS prevents their ports from working like ports... ;)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited October 2007
    Sid don't you sleep at all?

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • Deadof_knight
    Deadof_knight Posts: 980
    edited October 2007
    I have to say though that cabinet is built like a tank Im impressed with the structure .....
    :cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "

    Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center    ,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
    Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables
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  • Shannon W.
    Shannon W. Posts: 568
    edited October 2007
    There would be no (@ZZ) Flexing with that box!

    Shannon
    50" Samsung Plasma
    Sony STR-DA4ES "use as Pre/amp"
    Pioneer Elite DV-45A DVD Player
    DLO HomeDock Deluxe iPod docking station
    Directv HR20 Sat. Receiver in black
    Sunfire Cinema Grand 7 Signature Amp
    Monster Cable AVS2000
    Monster Cable HTPS 5100 MKII
    Polk LSi 9's Front R/L
    Polk LSiC Center
    Polk LSiFX R/L Surround
    Polk LSi 7's Rear R/L
    SVS PB12-Plus/2
    Velodyne SMS-1
    Sony PS3
    Click Here To View my Rig
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  • sjt
    sjt Posts: 22
    edited October 2007
    I have the Velodyne spl-1500r and am very pleased with it, It makes the whole house shake and vibrate with music and movies.
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited October 2007
    read that the new U13 was very musical also....

    Plug the ports...thats how ya make it sealed !!!
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited October 2007
    If you can get Ed (Doc Spec)
    over here to give the technical explanation...maybe won't happen since he joined them...so here goes. The U13 driver is a high excursion long throw woofer that was designed to offer the best of both worlds, deep extention, efficiency of the ported design, but be extremely linear and subjectively perform like some of the high priced sealed competitors out there. The variable tuning, combined with room comp and wide to narrow band PEQ aren't new, but it really works wonders. Dropping the tuning to 10hz or going sealed in small to mid sized room garners flat response and hangs with the big expensive commercial subs. Craigsub thought the SQ exceeded the Fathom, certainly the output, scored it 109 vs 102, IIRC. Some Canadian guys brought a DD18, Servo 15, Fathom and a U13 together not long ago, with slightly different results. The Fathom notched the U13 for musical performance, but it was very close and they both smoked the others.

    It's been documented not just by the adoptees, that the U13 is in another league vs the older SVS products.

    That doesn't preclude that the new Epik models and even the eD A7-900, the new dual 18 sub that Craig gave a 116 score to, won't kick everyone's ****. Just have to have the bucks and the space and not mind moving a 435lb or 275 sub around.

    I'd love to hear the VMPS subs, I'm sure they are smoking good, perhaps the best...so much to try, so little time.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited October 2007
    Re you saying the Epic is a better sub than the new SVS ultra !! :eek:
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    Submersive for HT.

    engtaz

    Are these out yet? I was following them a while back and knew you could special order them direct, but didn't think the site was up yet. Something about Seaton spending to much time working on the BMF.

    I am not a big fan of the SVS for music. I had it for a while and liked it with my Gallos but eventually just used it for HT. It is a beast for HT but for music it is to slow and just isn't that articulate.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited October 2007
    Yes http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/seatonsound
    Mark Seaton is send out the sub.

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • hockeyboy
    hockeyboy Posts: 1,428
    edited October 2007
    Fish, you have a separate amp for your sub right? Get passive subs since you already have a much cleaner power source than the wall socket. I personally have a PAIR of 20-39 CS Plus subs from SVS and will just about guarantee those two subs will DESTROY any single sub. I have them flanking my LSi15's.

    The best part.. I emailed SVS and asked if they could get me both shipped for a grand and they did. Don't look anywhere else. Buy a pair of 20-39 CS Plus subs if you have the amp channels.
    My Main Gear
    Mitsu HC5000 (Proj.)
    Marantz SR8001 (AVR)
    Sunfire TGA7200 (AMP)
    Marantz DV7001 (SACD)
    Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-Ray
    LSi 15's (Front)
    LSiC (Center)
    LSiFx (Surrounds)
    DUAL SVS 20-39 CS Plus     (Passive Subs)
    Marantz IS201 I-Pod Dock[/SIZE]
    Panamax M5300EX
    Carada Criterion 106" Brightwhite Screen
    Sunfire TGA 5200 & (4) B&W 605's in the party room
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  • hockeyboy
    hockeyboy Posts: 1,428
    edited October 2007
    Oh ya. I forgot to mention, they are MASSIVE and beautiful. Everyone that comes into my theater says WOW...awesome subs! To me, this is the highlight of my rig (besides maybe my Sunfire).
    My Main Gear
    Mitsu HC5000 (Proj.)
    Marantz SR8001 (AVR)
    Sunfire TGA7200 (AMP)
    Marantz DV7001 (SACD)
    Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-Ray
    LSi 15's (Front)
    LSiC (Center)
    LSiFx (Surrounds)
    DUAL SVS 20-39 CS Plus     (Passive Subs)
    Marantz IS201 I-Pod Dock[/SIZE]
    Panamax M5300EX
    Carada Criterion 106" Brightwhite Screen
    Sunfire TGA 5200 & (4) B&W 605's in the party room
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited October 2007
    beardog03 wrote: »
    Re you saying the Epic is a better sub than the new SVS ultra !! :eek:
    The jury's still out, but Chad is pretty confident all his subs will give the U13 a run for it's money and the Tower and Conquest will easily exceed it for output. SQ is the question. There's a fella in Vacaville, that's going to give me a listen to the Conquest...up for a roadtrip?

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited October 2007
    ^ I'd love to hear your thoughts on it afterwards. Seems like allot of competitors out there after SVS. JL Audio, EPik, HSU, Elemental Designs, are a few that come to mind. I'm not a fanboy but it seems they do make very good subs. Now it just seems like there is so much more out there. Heres to hoping that they(SVS) come out with a Ultra 13 / Plus 2 or even a 15 setup. That A7-900 from Elemental Designs seems very impressive and they say for music its good also. Any thoughts http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=606 ?
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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