Recommend A 2 Channel Pre Please

wingnut4772
wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
edited November 2007 in 2 Channel Audio
Yesterday I did some experimenting using my Benchmark Dac1 as a pre rather than my Parasound Php 850. I decided I preferred the Parasound but it may be a tad too warm and I was thinking of trying something else. I hate bright but I like air and detail. I was looking at Bel Canto on the 'Gon but they are pricey and I have never heard them. Any ideas? I am not sure I could do much better without shelling out big bucks.
Sharp Elite 70
Anthem D2V 3D
Parasound 5250
Parasound HCA 1000 A
Parasound HCA 1000
Oppo BDP 95
Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
Totem Mask Surrounds X4
Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
Sony PS3
Squeezebox Touch

Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
Post edited by wingnut4772 on
«13

Comments

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2007
    Nakamichi CA 5. I compared mine to a Parasound PH/P850 and preferred it by a pretty wide margin. They are really inexpensive so you could try one w/o breaking the bank. You just missed on on Audiogon for $170. The Nak also has a killer phono section for your new TT

    On the higher end Adcom GFP-750 is excellent sonically and can be run in both passive and active mode. They run between $600-750 on average. They do not have a phono section.

    These, IMO are a couple of best bargains going if you are serious about audio performance. All are very simple straight forward designs with premuim parts used and both were designed or atleast he had input by Nelson Pass.

    My CA 5 will never leave even if/when I replace it to try something different.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited October 2007
    Odyssey Candela or Tempest
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited October 2007
    I have in my rig right now the B&K pro 10MC (Bought from a member for $100), and I think it has been a wake up call. I've had tubed preamps like forever, and this little SS pre has given me another level in detail, and imaging has greatly improved with it. It is a little too forward for my taste, but I want to try a better SS pre now. Funny that you mention Bel Canto...there's one in a Fedex truck coming this way. I'll let you know what I think :)
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited October 2007
    Your just a big bucks kinda of gal.......

    You have already played around with the better mid-fi stuff, that next step costs, the last 5% or so you can squeeze out, but there is a lot of magic in that last little bit. Prices range from crazy to ridiculous.

    RT1
  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited October 2007
    I regrettably might be selling my Musical Fidelity A3cr in the next few weeks... It's a heck of a preamp for the money. Has a nice phono stage too, or so I've read, I've never used it...
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2007
    Your just a big bucks kinda of gal.......

    You have already played around with the better mid-fi stuff, that next step costs, the last 5% or so you can squeeze out, but there is a lot of magic in that last little bit. Prices range from crazy to ridiculous.

    RT1

    Sadly, I think you are right. At least mid bucks.:o
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    You might consider one of Gary Dodd's preamps that pop up from time to time. The basic ELP is much better than the Parasound and his MLP is as good or better than anything mentioned so far.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited October 2007
    I believe Steveinaz went from the 850 to the Musical Fidelity back in the day, might want to give him a shout out about the differences. Might give you enough insight to see if that is the way to go. If you thought the 850 was too warm, I would say to avoid anything that even looks like it may have a tube, but I could be wrng. I went the tube route, including the Dodd, to warm up the sound.

    Those Dodds do sound nice though, and should at least be tried in your path of trying differnt 2 channel stuff.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2007
    What about the Nuforce P8 in the FM?
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    I think a tube pre can be very detailed without losing the so called "warmth" of the tubes. Ted's MLP and the Cary Mark used to have in his rig are excellent examples .
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited October 2007
    ohskigod wrote: »
    I believe Steveinaz went from the 850 to the Musical Fidelity back in the day, might want to give him a shout out about the differences. Might give you enough insight to see if that is the way to go.

    Wing --

    If you can hold off and possibly grab tryrrthg's MF, please do so.

    Several years ago I replaced the 850 with this unit and the difference was night & day. The MF made the 850 sound like a POS. Besides, it's a beautiful unit with great build quality. It's not every day where you'll run across a 30 lb. preamp.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited October 2007
    shack wrote: »
    I think a tube pre can be very detailed without losing the so called "warmth" of the tubes. Ted's MLP and the Cary Mark used to have in his rig are excellent examples .


    True; tubed pre's can be very detailed. I've been very happy with tubed pre's during my upgrade path (Dared to Dodd to AES-Cary to Audio Research).
    I also liked the warmth of tubes; it might be though that with my current set up that warmth or roll off is not a good match? Who knows; I'm just saying I will try a decent SS pre and see how it goes. There's not better or worse when talking about tubes and SS; just a matter of personal taste, and maybe synergy.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited October 2007
    I have in my rig right now the B&K pro 10MC (Bought from a member for $100), and I think it has been a wake up call. I've had tubed preamps like forever, and this little SS pre has given me another level in detail.

    Agreed. I had one of these for a year or so as well, paired with a B&K ST-202, and later with a Carver M1.0t and M4.0t. In all three cases, it made for a great sounding system. When I tried to run the amps direct and/or use a different preamp (like Lexicon CP3 or Carver C2), the results were not good at all.

    So, if you don't need a remote and anything fancy looking, and have $100-$200 laying around (I got mine for $76 off ebay), try to get a B&K Pro-10MC. I guarantee you like the sound.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited October 2007
    I did upgrade from the PHP-850 to the MF A3CR about 4 years ago. The A3CR is a great preamp. Full dual-mono design with independant power supplies for each channel, built like a tank, it weighs almost as much as my amp.

    Actually I found mostly subtle differences between the two (a tribute to the PHP-850) but in some ways the A3CR just can't be beat. Very, very quiet background, beautiful soundstaging that gives the feeling that instruments are hanging in space; excellent treble that never gets etchy, just clear, bell-like. The A3CR has a smooth character about it that doesn't smear articulation--it's hard to describe.

    I really like the simplicity of the unit; volume knob and input selection---thats it. Less stuff to muck up your music as far as I'm concerned. I can't think of a single preamp I would rather have---at any cost.

    Bottom line, my A3CR and Benchmark DAC1 are two anchors in my system that will go nowhere. I like them that much.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited October 2007
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • Yashu
    Yashu Posts: 772
    edited October 2007
    What about Naim?
  • ka7niq
    ka7niq Posts: 577
    edited October 2007
    Yesterday I did some experimenting using my Benchmark Dac1 as a pre rather than my Parasound Php 850. I decided I preferred the Parasound but it may be a tad too warm and I was thinking of trying something else. I hate bright but I like air and detail. I was looking at Bel Canto on the 'Gon but they are pricey and I have never heard them. Any ideas? I am not sure I could do much better without shelling out big bucks.
    You did not say if you wanted remote or not, a phono stage, or multi function switching ?
    The older Spectral Preamps are very open and airy, as is the Klyne Audio Arts.
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2007
    A phono stage I have. HT pass through would be a plus but not an end all. A remote would be very nice,
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,766
    edited October 2007
    Parasound does have a few significantly better linestage preamps out there too. Either the PLD-1100, 1500, or 2000 would all be a step up from the 850. If you need remote control, the 1100 and 2000 have it. Since I haven't heard the 850, I can't say how big of a jump it is, but I am very happy with my PLD-2000. Compared to my previous TOTL Sony ES pre, it definitely added detail and air. I wouldn't say it sounds warm, but its not bright either. Just accurate.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited October 2007
    There is always a lot of Modwright's available. It has the HT bypass. I don't know how it compares to the others that have been mentioned however.
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Consonance cd120T
    Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Usher CP 6311

    Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote
  • ka7niq
    ka7niq Posts: 577
    edited October 2007
    A phono stage I have. HT pass through would be a plus but not an end all. A remote would be very nice,
    I use a old Parasound P/SP 1000 preamp.
    It has Dolby Pro Logic built in, but totally bypases it in stereo mode.
    I like it because it is remote, and has a very unique feature, remote control of subwoofer level.
    I have a pair of large subs that can easily overload my room unless levels are exactly right.
    The control for the subs is right on remote, no on screen menus required.
    The preamp will drive any amplifier, and has 40,000 uf capacitors in it, and alps pots.
    How does it sound ???
    Pretty good actually, a tad on the warm side, with 3 dimensional imaging.
    Not the very last word in detail compared to a Sonic Frontiers Line 3 or a Spectral, but pretty competent.
    The ability to get the bass level just right for every recording is to me more important then that little last bit of top end detail of the Spectral or Line 3.

    I listen to a lot of old classic rock like Patty Smythe and Pat Benatar for instance.
    he sone "Warrior" by Patty Smythe and Scandal is ungodly bright.
    But, a simple increase in subwoofer level makes it Rock.
    The Parasound P/SP 1000 also has a subwoofer crossover built in, switchable between 100 and 80 hz.
    The nice thing about the preamp is it can be had for under 150 bucks used, a real sleeper.
  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2007
    What about the Nuforce P8 in the FM?

    The P8 is pretty neutral sounding, not really adding or taking anything away. It sounded very similar to my passive pre in that respect. You can get it with a HT bypass but the one in the F/S does not have it, instead it has an extra input (3rd input, with HT Bypass it only has 2 rca inputs).
    There is always a lot of Modwright's available. It has the HT bypass. I don't know how it compares to the others that have been mentioned however.

    This is the best pre-amp I have ever heard. It definitely has a lot of detail for a tube pre yet still retains some warmth. It does have a HT Bypass but the unit needs to be on (draining tube life) for it to function.

    If you did not need a remote I would say a passive pre might be worth trying. They don't generally add or take away anything from the signal...perfectly neutral. You can get some decent ones for pretty cheap to. I know at least one other member here uses a TVC in their system...I love em so much I have 3.
  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited October 2007
    Anything by Conrad Johnson. I have the PV14LS2 w/ Mullards & all it does is play glorious music. Due to circumstances at the time, I almost sold it once, but I just couldn't part with it. Boy am I glad I didn't.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
  • del44
    del44 Posts: 686
    edited October 2007
    What's the budget? If you're thinking about MF, their are/was a couple of A5's on the "gon" for under $1500. They do have a phono stage though. Also a HT passthrough, and remote.
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2007
    I saw those. I can't find too much info on them though..
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited October 2007
    There is a monster battery tube preamp in the flea market right now......
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2007
    Which one?
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited October 2007
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2007
    RuSsMaN wrote: »

    I just found it. That looks a little too complicated for me.:o
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
  • ESavinon
    ESavinon Posts: 3,066
    edited October 2007
    I have a sunfire classic tube preamp and a parasound halo p3 available for sale.
    SRT For Life; SDA Forever!

    The SRT SEISMIC System:
    Four main satellite speakers, six powered subs, two dedicated for LFE channel, two center speakers for over/under screen placement and three Control Centers. Amaze your friends, terrorize your neighbors, seize the audio bragging rights for your state. Go ahead, buy it; you only go around once.